| Author |
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| Internet Stranger |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: 1 |
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Not me! I was thoroughly cleaned out.
I also want to hear about how this antipete takes his crap too. |
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| Bemused Onlooker |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: 0 |
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Elayne:
CasinoPete never stated that he thought the characters or "meaning" of the book were what he liked about them. He even stated that the style of writing was not why he liked it. This is why he insists that you misunderstand his argument. You posed an argument against the writing style once he had clearly stated that he himself saw nothing special about it. This may be the reason for his evident frustration.
CasinoPete:
Not only are you being overly belligerent, but you are also determinedly avoiding the question as to why you so enjoyed "Portrait...". You have belittled other people's preferences while giving them no room for retaliation, merely stating that they don't get your point. Of course in an ideal world people would defend their own viewpoints rather than seeking ways to attack others but, sadly, this is the GL. The least you could do is allow room for revenge.
WordCross:
Honorable as your intentions are, your personal attack was uncalled for. It should, however, get you some brownie points with the people who matter.
As you were.
| Internet Stranger wrote: |
I took a crap this morning. It was fecking brilliant. It wasnt about the splashing sound it made, or what it looked like or how it smelled afterwards.
It was just fecking brilliant. |
Words of wisdom, my friend. It didn't smell the strongest, or splash the loudest, or look the most impressive. But it felt really good, didn't it, Internet Stranger? That crap was just what your lower bowel needed.
When a book is appreciated for what it means to the individual, who am I to judge? Who, for that matter, are Elayne or CasinoPete to judge one another? After all, aren't all books like crap in one way or another? If Elayne likes her crap to come out nice and easy, and CasinoPete likes to spend a bit longer taking a more difficult crap, and ponder it deeply, then who are any of us to deprive them of their enjoyment of their digestive functions?
In conclusion, you are all full of crap. |
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| extro... |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject: -1 |
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| Was there a movie? |
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| Internet Stranger |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: -2 |
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| Whats left is the fecking brilliance, duh. |
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| Elayne |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: -3 |
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| Quote: |
| Do you see what I'm saying? It's not that something got missed. It's that you completely rewrote what I said into its opposite. You are arguing with some imaginary antipete, not with me. |
Nope, i don't
| Quote: |
| but I didn't see what was so brilliant about the character or what deep meanings there was in that book. |
After moving on from the writing i style, I then said I didn't find deep meanings or much to the character either.
You then said I didn't get why you found it brilliant AGAIN so I figured you didn't find it brilliant because of meanings or characters. So I was puzzled to what the heck is left. |
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| Internet Stranger |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject: -4 |
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| The day of reckoning looms, for someday the antipete will come to claim all of our souls. |
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| Courk |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: -5 |
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| You still haven't answered Elayne's question: Why do you think that book is so brilliant? |
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| casinopete |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject: -6 |
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Elayne:
I said:
| casinopete wrote: |
| Portrait of the Artist was not worth reading because the writing style was innovative or different or whatever. It was worth reading because it's fecking brilliant. |
This means that I do not consider it special because of the stream-of-conciousness (innovative+different style). That's what I said. That's what I meant.
You responded, not by slightly missing what I had to say, but as though I had just said the complete opposite of what I'd said:
| Elayne wrote: |
| I cannot see what was so brilliant about the novel. yes it was stream of conciousness (sp) but I didn't see what was so brilliant about the character or what deep meanings there was in that book. |
Do you see what I'm saying? It's not that something got missed. It's that you completely rewrote what I said into its opposite. You are arguing with some imaginary antipete, not with me.
This wasn't even a strawman. It was a whole straw-freakin'-nation, complete with strawcities with strawsuburbs containing strawcondos housing strawfamilies, each with 2.3 strawkids and their strawdogs and strawcats and strawhouseplants. |
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| Elayne |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: -7 |
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**bets cp will use the above post to insult my intellegence**
And no, you don't have to argue positions you don't believe in.
What would have been a good thing to do is try clarify your intial postion cause at least one of us missed where you were going with it.
[sarcasm on]
Course since we are not as brilliant as yourself, it would probably be worth your time to try to explain to lesser mortals again
[/sarcasm off] |
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| Elayne |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject: -8 |
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Oh I am reading it. But reading and comprehending what you mean by it are two different things.
And apperently I am not the only one having trouble figuring out what you were aiming for. |
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| *casinopete |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:33 am Post subject: -9 |
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wordx:
Being Muslim doesn't make you infallible, no matter how often you try to convince us of it.
What? You didn't say anything of the sort? You're impossible!
Seriously, man, you've got to be kidding me. You would have preferred I be polite and accept an implicit demand that I argue positions I neither hold nor have any interest in?
| wordx wrote: |
| All you've done so far is criticize others' opinions while claiming that Portrait is fecking brilliant. |
Bullshit. I have criticized no opinion in this thread, and didn't begin any sort of criticism at all until after I said, "Portrait of the Artist was not worth reading because the writing style was innovative or different or whatever." to which Elayne responded exactly as though I had said that the innovative style and deep meanings were why the book was brilliant. She isn't bothering to read what I say, and I called her on it. |
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| wordcross |
Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 2:37 am Post subject: -10 |
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christ cp, sometimes you're impossible, you know that.
would it kill you to actually give us your reasons for liking the book? All you've done so far is criticize others' opinions while claiming that Portrait is fecking brilliant. Then you criticize them for criticizing you incorrectly.
Grow up. |
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| extro... |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 11:57 pm Post subject: -11 |
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| Dmi wrote: |
I just don't get why some books are called "classics" and are shoved into my and my peers' faces. They're usually not goodhorrible worthless shit which we are forced to read because there is some "deep meaning" and contrasts of light falling through a barn. All it measures is how well can you see patterns without falling asleep from boredom. I'll find my deep meaning in good books that actually talk about stuff, not make some "deep meaning" you aren't able to discern without using Spark Notes, which anyone uses anyway.[/rant] |
You arrogant snobs with your fancy "books". Why not wait for the movie. On the TV. As long as it's not "without commercial interuption", because who can sit and watch a whole movie without a break every 5 minutes. |
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| casinopete |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 11:54 pm Post subject: -12 |
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| Elayne wrote: |
| You said it wasn't the style or the meanings or the character... |
I did not say this. Your inability to make it through a whole post (even a two-sentence post!) without inventing something for me to have said is why this conversation will not work. |
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| Internet Stranger |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: -13 |
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| Logs down the river comes after fecking brilliant. |
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| Jedo the Jedi |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:32 pm Post subject: -14 |
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@ IS
I'm going to have to read this "fecking brilliant" book, Portrait of the Artist. I want to know what this is all about.
When reading books for school, I say 'Screw you' to the teacher and draw my own meaning(s) from the book. I don't care what they draw from it. If I have to write some essay about "How the water symbolized the passage of the logs down the river," I'd just say that I didn't get that and tell them what I did get from it. |
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| Dmi |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject: -15 |
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I just don't get why some books are called "classics" and are shoved into my and my peers' faces. They're usually not goodhorrible worthless shit which we are forced to read because there is some "deep meaning" and contrasts of light falling through a barn. All it measures is how well can you see patterns without falling asleep from boredom. I'll find my deep meaning in good books that actually talk about stuff, not make some "deep meaning" you aren't able to discern without using Spark Notes, which anyone uses anyway.[/rant] |
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| Elayne |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: -16 |
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| okay what DO you think is so darn brilliant? You said it wasn't the style or the meanings or the character...so what was it? |
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| Antrax |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: -17 |
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Wow. CP's already this aggravated, and the tournament hasn't even really started yet. I knew this was a great idea
(I'm still pleased, btw. Most of the books I voted for are doing well. Only upset registered so far is Shogun not getting even seconded). |
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| Internet Stranger |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject: -18 |
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I took a crap this morning. It was fecking brilliant. It wasnt about the splashing sound it made, or what it looked like or how it smelled afterwards.
It was just fecking brilliant. |
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| casinopete |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: -19 |
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| casinopete wrote: |
| Portrait of the Artist was not worth reading because the writing style was innovative or different or whatever. It was worth reading because it's fecking brilliant. |
| Elayne wrote: |
I cannot see what was so brilliant about the novel. yes it was stream of conciousness (sp) but I didn't see what was so brilliant about the character or what deep meanings there was in that book.
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AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!
"Stream of conciousness"? "deep meanings"? You know what? I'm done. I say it's not about the style or innovation, and you reply that you don't see how the style and innovation are brilliant. If you're that opposed to taking the time to read what I say, just piss off. |
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| Elayne |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject: -20 |
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Yah i remember that quiz of yours  |
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| wordcross |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: -21 |
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^ What she said
iirc, Elayne and I have similar tastes in fiction. It's not surprising i agree with her, then  |
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| Elayne |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: -22 |
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Sorry Portrait of an Artist is the only book that has given me a very very strong urge to burn it. Other then maybe Moby Dick.
I cannot see what was so brilliant about the novel. yes it was stream of conciousness (sp) but I didn't see what was so brilliant about the character or what deep meanings there was in that book.
And I read it as a part of senior english class, so yes, I did get all the analysis on it and I still don't see its brillance other then the stream thing. |
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| Courk |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:39 pm Post subject: -23 |
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| *agrees with Elayne on Gatsby and Flies* |
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| L'lanmal |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:36 pm Post subject: -24 |
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Big edit here.. it appears my search function was broken and wasn't finding when I searched on Bradbury's name. Maybe I had case sensativity turned on
| Quote: |
| Christie makes the list as opposed to Bradbury and Camus. |
All lists are restricted to NOVELS ONLY except for the last.
Modern Library Best 100 Novels (1900 and after. All three authors fit in that time range.)
Modern Library Board's list:
Christie 0, Bradbury + Camus 0
Reader's poll (217,520 votes cast.)
Christie 0, Bradbury + Camus 2 (Something wicked this way comes, Farenheit 451)
The BBC nation's best loved novel was The Lord of the Rings, by JRR Tolkien.
But the count is Christie 0, Bradbury+Camus 0
Radcliffe Publishing Course, an apparent rival of the Modern Library people had
Christie 0, Bradbury+Camus 0.
Top 100 works of fiction, voted on by 100 authors from 54 countries
Christie 0, Bradbury+Camus 1 (The Stranger).
We have a winner!
Totals:
Christie 0 (0 per list)
Bradbury 2 (0.4 per list?)
Camus 1 (0.2 per list?)
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I don't trust the Modern Library Board's list from the top down. But, hey, they're the experts, of some sort, right?
1. ULYSSES by James Joyce
2. THE GREAT GATSBY by F. Scott Fitzgerald
3. A PORTRAIT OF THE ARTIST AS A YOUNG MAN by James Joyce
4. LOLITA by Vladimir Nabokov
5. BRAVE NEW WORLD by Aldous Huxley
6. THE SOUND AND THE FURY by William Faulkner
The Library Board readers' poll top 10 contains four Ayn Rand books. That seems excessive, but ok maybe... What gets me is the three L. Ron Hubbard books, starting with Battlefield: Earth at number three. After this initial rush, it settles down to a more interesting list in my opinion. But who is Nevil Shute? Should I know him?
Those wacky Brits! They have four Harry Potter books in their top 25! However, their list seems to be the most like our own nominee list. The Hitchhikers Guide, Pride and Prejudice, 1984, Catch-22, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe are all nearish the top.
Radcliffe leads off with
1. The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
2. The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger
3. The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck
4. To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee
5. The Color Purple by Alice Walker
6. Ulysses by James Joyce
At least a little less in love with the stream of conciousness authors than that Modern Library place. Not what I'd pick, but my objections are a bit less violent.
The international author's type list has Don Quixote as first, and is unordered from then on. It is also not restricted to post 1900 or to novels so can include things like Faust, The Illiad and Odyessy, A Doll's House, Hans Christian Andersen: Fairy Tales and Stories, and The Book of Job(!). |
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| dethwing |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject: -25 |
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| Come on Christie...pass the Stranger! |
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| casinopete |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:22 pm Post subject: -26 |
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| ... and you're saying that's not fecking brilliant? |
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| Internet Stranger |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: -27 |
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| Wasnt James Joyce supposed to be like this retarded guy they put in front of a typewriter? |
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| casinopete |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: -28 |
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You've left me nigh speechless.
Portrait of the Artist was not worth reading because the writing style was innovative or different or whatever. It was worth reading because it's fecking brilliant.
And while Lord of the Flies didn't quite make my nominations... well, I guess that says it all - it didn't quite make my nominations.
I have to mostly agree with you on Gatsby, though. It was okay, but I wasn't particularly upset when I finished with it. |
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| Elayne |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 2:59 pm Post subject: -29 |
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Ugh don't even get me started on top 100 lists.
James Joyce's Potriat of an Artist of a Young Man is on that list and there is not a book I detest more then that one. Sure I suppose it might have been innovative and differnt on its writing style but just because its still was innovative doesn't mean the story was a good one.
Ditto goes for Lord of the Flies...found that one extremly distateful too. Ohhh people revert back to animals was abandend in the wilderness.
Never did see what was so thrilling in great gatsby either. |
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| *casinopete |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 5:12 am Post subject: -30 |
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| It's not necesarily that anything is wrong with Christie, but that F451 and Stranger are simply much better. Not that you should blindly follow the opinions of other people, but I think it might be interesting to check out some standard "top 100 novels of all time" lists, and see exactly how often Christie makes the list as opposed to Bradbury and Camus. |
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| Courk |
Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:44 am Post subject: -31 |
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| What's wrong with Agatha Christie? Sure, some of her books aren't that great, but Murder on the Orient Express is a good book. |
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| casinopete |
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject: -32 |
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I voted My Name is Asher Lev. I can't really make bitter remarks this time, though, since I have absolutely no problem with Farenheit 451 and The Stranger beating it.
*preemptively shakes fist in case Christie wins, though* |
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| Mackay |
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: -33 |
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Lewis vs. Potok... =(
...I'd wait to see which would most benefit from my vote, but I'm leaving tomorrow... Educated guess tells me Potok needs me more. |
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| mith |
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: -34 |
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I haven't read any of these myself. This is why I like these tournaments, there's all sorts of things out there that I *should* have watched or read. Now I have a list.  |
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| extropalopakettle |
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 3:43 am Post subject: -35 |
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| I read The Stranger in college, and of all the books I've read, this one made the greatest impression on me and was the most disturbing. Disturbing, not directly for the book's content itself (because disturbing content can always be dismissed as just a book), but for something that it made me realize about life itself (which can't be dismissed) - something I can't quite articulate. I don't think I share Camus' view of life - I'm not sure because I'm not sure what his view is. But I found the way the main character lived, letting life happen to him, to be a common way of living, and to me very tragic. |
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| Courk |
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: -36 |
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| Orient Express is great. |
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| zorT Kitty |
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject: -37 |
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| Extro, I'm glad to see you have good taste in books. Camus gets my vote too. |
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| extro... |
Posted: Sun May 01, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject: -38 |
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| I finally voted for The Stranger, I didn't vote in most of the others, because in many cases there were quite a few I hadn't read, and I could at least entertain the possibility that some of them were better than the ones I had. I haven't read Murder on the Orient Express, but that's different. |
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