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mith
Pitbull of Truth

Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:01 pm    Post subject: 1

(or, mith spends too much time thinking about games)

I had an idea for a Diplomacy Variant, but haven't quite worked out the details of making it work so that it would be fair and fun and stuff.

It's sort of a steal from mole's on-going Mafia game. It would start as a normal game (the map doesn't matter, though I think 7 players would be the optimal size). The major difference is that no one is permanently eliminated. Whenever someone loses all their SCs, whoever has the largest number of SCs that winter (with some rules regarding ties) chooses half (round down) their SCs, which then go to the "eliminated" player.

Obviously it would be extremely difficult to get to 18 (or whatever half is) SCs, so there's a different way of determining the winner.

1. If someone gets to some number of SCs, say 1/3 (that's probably a bit low in the standard game, though), they win.
2. Otherwise, you get points each year based on the number of SCs you control. It wouldn't be fair for an eliminated player to get credit for SCs just given to him, so instead of a pure SC count, it would instead be the difference between the number you started with (since the beginning of the game, since you took over someone else's SCs, or since you gave away your SCs). You would also lose points for being eliminated (more points if you get eliminated faster) and gain a share of the points each eliminated player loses (maybe the person who has the most SCs, and gives some up, gets all the points, that might be the most fair).

Also, if there were more than 7 players, there could be a waiting list. Instead of the eliminated player jumping right back in, he/she gets put at the bottom of the list, and the top of the list enters the game.

Example, if that all made no sense at all.

(Taken from Diplomacy 5)

 Year Austria-Hungary England France Germany Italy Russia Turkey 1900 3 3 3 3 3 4 3 1901 5 (+2) 5 (+2) 5 (+2) 5 (+2) 4 (+1) 4 (0) 5 (+2) 1902 8 (+5) 6 (+3) 4 (+1) 6 (+3) 4 (+1) 1 (-3) 4 (+1) 1903 7 (+4) 8 (+5) 3 (0) 7 (+4) 4 (+1) 1 (-3) 4 (+1) 1904 8 (+5) 8 (+5) 3 (0) 6 (+3) 5 (+2) 2 (-2) 2 (-1) 1905 9 (+6) 10 (+7) 3 (0) 4 (+1) 6 (+3) 2 (-2) 0 (-?)

Ok, now at this point, Turkey is eliminated, and England has the most SCs. England chooses half his SCs to give to Turkey (any 5, they can be all spread out or whatever). Also, he would disband down to 5 units himself. Then Turkey, once he knows what SCs he's getting, gets to build in all of them (and pick 3 has his new home SCs).

Obviously this still needs some work, but I think it has potential. Things to consider:

1. What's the best way to handle Russia in the standard game (i.e. a country with more SCs than everyone else)?
2. Is it enough compensation for England to get some points when Turkey is eliminated, to make up for the fact that he now doesn't "earn" as much (having 10 is worth 7 points every year).
3. Perhaps I should do away with the scoring idea all together, and just make it an SC goal?
4. I'm insane?

Other variants I'm considering if for my turn at modding...

Seismic Diplomacy (played on standard map, but the players change the map during the game).
Sahara, Deluge (2) (standard map, but the map changes during the game).
RootZ (basically, two standard maps put together in a neat way, each player controls two "countries")
Something else I come up with.

Antrax
ESL Student

 Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:41 pm    Post subject: 2 Won't the effect of that be that the strongest power will just keep the weakest one from being eliminated? It would be kinda weird, since it would be in the weaker power's best interest to be eliminated, but I think the strongest one can conceivably guard the last SC to avoid losing half of his/her SCs. Antrax ------------------ "If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"
mith
Pitbull of Truth

 Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 7:40 am    Post subject: 3 Well, obviously I'm trying to include some incentive for the stronger player, and some penalty for the weaker player. Also, though, say France is strongest. He might be able to keep England alive, but Russia and AH might be able to take out Turkey without becoming stronger (and, of course, England can take without risk if he knows he's not going to get any weaker). Or maybe England just leaves his SCs and let's Germany in. *~shrug~*
CrystyB
Misunderstood Guy

 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:40 am    Post subject: 4 If anyone else was having trouble visualising the map for RootZ, here it is. (and please don't complain about the quality of it. Here is my first attempt! )
mith
Pitbull of Truth

 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:50 am    Post subject: 5 Here's a *slightly* better one.
Antrax
ESL Student

 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:57 am    Post subject: 6 What if the resurrection was more balanced? Like taking 1 SC from each power alive (and somehow make them close, so it'll be managable?). Or reclaiming your home SCs and the foreign forces occupying them are driven out? Something like that, less drastic than the major power losing half his SCs? Antrax ------------------ "If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"
mith
Pitbull of Truth

 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 7:07 am    Post subject: 7 Well, with the first suggestion, you end up with the eliminated power getting 6 SCs spread all over the place where they can't help each other much (it would definitely make the game interesting, though ). With the second, it would get boring pretty quick, I think. The reason I thought of the big power losing half its SCs to the eliminated power is that it would basically create a whole new power; the big power gets too big to manage and breaks up into pieces (one just happens to be taken over by a disposed leader). I was going to make a story to go with it, just haven't gotten around to it. Anyway, yeah, it would make the game more fluid I think, and create whole new strategies based on what the current powers happen to be (maybe you end up with something like the arrangement in Aberration at some point ). I like the suggestions though, keep them coming.
mole
Subterranean Member

 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 7:11 am    Post subject: 8 Right. And *I'm* the one who's insane??
Antrax
ESL Student

 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 7:32 am    Post subject: 9 Here's another idea: what if the eliminated player just gets units, and not SCs? He'll get, say, 2 years of playing as a "rebel force" (which can be placed anywhere on the board), then be subject to the same adjustment rules as everybody else come winter. That would create some new strategies AND give you a terrible headache since you can't use RP to manage that! Antrax ------------------ "If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"
mith
Pitbull of Truth

 Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:19 pm    Post subject: 10 Evil.
CrystyB
Misunderstood Guy

 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:26 am    Post subject: 11 well one COULD use RP to manage that, but it needs work (and accountability): create three or more isolated SCs for each power, as a safety net (like i did in my DiploChess variant) - noone can win those, they support rebel armies and should be substracted from the SC count each winter.
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