Diplomatic Chess - Fall 1903

[Antrax]

This is a new, crazy idea I had last night, after going 4-3 in a chess tournament, with all my wins as white and all my losses as black. I thought to myself "why can't both sides play at once?", and suddenly came with this.
The rules are as following:
1) All pieces move like in normal chess.
2) The object of the game is to capture the opposing king. There is no check or checkmate, if you catch the king, you win.
3) Both players move simultaneously; the moves are sent to a mod, who adjudicates the results, and posts the new board, after the move resolution.
4) A piece can either move to a square they could move to legally (though kings may move into "checks"), or support other piece's move. In order to support another piece's move, the supporting piece must be able to reach the same square as the supported piece. So, if I have a rook on A5 and a pawn on e5, I can play pe4-e5 and support it with the A5 rook.
5) If piece A tries to move into a square where piece B is present, piece B is captured. However, if piece B is supported by 1 more supporter than piece A, the capture fails, and all units remain in their original position. (a piece standing its ground is also a move).
6) If Piece A supports Piece B, and Piece C attacks Piece A, Piece B is not supported by A, regardless of whether C's capture succeeded or not.
It's a bit wild, but I think this cross-breed of Diplomacy and chess can work. Can I get two volunteers?
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"



[This message has been edited by Antrax (edited 12-29-2002 06:13 PM).]

[dethwing]

i'll try it, but how many moves/supports do you get? can you use all your pieces?

[Antrax]

You have to use all your pieces; the ones you don't move just get ordered to hold.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[Antrax]

small addendum: Pawns cannot support pieces one square ahead of them, even though that's how they move -- they may only support pieces who go to squares which they can attack.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[CrystyB]

vote: yes. And if someone accepts a move every week as in regular dip i'd play too

[Antrax]

Yeah, that's the idea. So, our players are dethwing and CrystyB, send your moves in, let's see how this pans out
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[Antrax]

Chess Board

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dethwing CrystyB

---

It is Spring 1903, send in your moves! (deadline: Dec. 24)
Previous Moves:

Spring 1901:
CrystyB: e4
dethwing: a5, b5, c5, d6, e5, g6, Nf6, Nc6, Bg7, Bf4, 0-0

Fall 1901:
CrystyB: a3, b3, d3, h3, Nc3, Bg6, Qf3, Bb5, Ne2, 0-0.
dethwing: Re8, Ne4, Bb7.

Spring 1902:
CrystyB:Bc4, Nb5, Qf7, Nf4, Bg5 ,Ra1 H, Rf1 S f2 H.
All else Hold.
dethwing:Nc3,Na7,Rab8,Qh4,e4,Bf8 S Nc3,Re8 S e4 Bb7 S e4.
All else Hold.

Fall 1902:
CrystyB: Nd6,Qg7,Bg8,Bh6,Rae1,Ng6, d3e4, a3 H, b3 H, c2 S b3 H, f2 H, g2 S h3 H, h3 H, Rf1 S f2 H, Kg1 S g2 H
dethwing: Qg5,Kh8,Nab5,Rf8,Re8,ed3,Kh8,d5,Nc S Nab5,B S Rf8,B S d5, h S g6 H

Spring 1903:
CyrstyB: a3 - a4,b3 S a3 - a4,c2 S b3 H,R e1 - e8,R f1 S f2 H,N d6 - f7,N f4 - g6,B g8 - h7,B h6 - g7,Q g7 - f8,K g1 S A g2 H
dethwing: All hold.

Bold moves failed for being illegal (and ambiguous).
Italicised moves bounced.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"



[This message has been edited by Antrax (edited 12-29-2002 06:14 PM).]

[Chuck]

The game needs more players to be a true diplomatic chess game. How about an eight player game in which each player controls a major piece or King, the minor piece adjacent to it, and the two pawns in front of them? You win if the enemy king is captured and you still have material on the board. You'd have to cooperate with your teammates to win but not to the point where you lose everything. You might occasionally negotiate with the enemy to improve your own chance of survival.

[CrystyB]

i suggest a clarification for rule #6. Say P S A, A S B->C, C->A (fails). Is A's support still valid for the capture of his own attacker?

[Antrax]

Chuck, this is a concept test; my idea of making it more diplomatic was enlarging the board and having 4 players, or we could do yours, I just want to see how it works with two players, first.

CrystyB, how does it work in Diplomacy?
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[mith]

A support is cut if it is attacked by a unit that it is not supporting against, or it is dislodged. So, in his example, the support would not be cut, because C didn't capture A. If P did not support A, then the support would be cut (allowing, for example, D-C to bounce the now unsupported B-C), and A would be captured.

[Antrax]

It is Fall 1901, send your moves.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[CrystyB]

to misquote Ant's reply #2, "the ones [pieces] you order to hold will not move"



[This message has been edited by CrystyB (edited 12-19-2002 06:32 PM).]

[Ghost Post]

Q: If I order a piece to A, and my opponent does on the same turn, what happens?

Chess Board

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Player 1 Player 2

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What happens if we both want to go to B1?

[mith]

They "bounce" (both fail to move).

[CrystyB]

(same board)
What happens if black orders a1-h1 and white b2-b1? What about if black had a piece in e1 that was ordered to move? What if that move from e1 was bounced?

[This message has been edited by CrystyB (edited 12-01-2002 07:25 PM).]

[Antrax]

a) Both moves succeed.
b) Both moves succeed.
c) The move would fail.

The reason for this is that I sort of think of the moves as simultenous, so if a piece would block you it has to sit there since last turn and not move this turn.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[Antrax]

It is Spring 1902, send your moves.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[dethwing]

Bump, just sent.

[Antrax]

Whee, this is wild. Fall 1902, send moves etc.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[dethwing]

sorry i took so long. sent.

[dethwing]

*gurgle*

[CrystyB]

Why didn't my Ra1 move to e1?

[Antrax]

Sorry, missed that move somehow. Board updated again.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[CrystyB]

Hmm, you know, this could be a lot easier to visualise if it were a picture with arrows, like in RealPolitik. In fact, i think i can make it as a Variant for RealPolitik!! (only it would have to wait for the weekend, since i don't have enough spare time on my hands right now)

[Antrax]

Yeah, I was just thinking it'd be impossible to move a version for more than two players w/o coding it for RP
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[CrystyB]

What pieces would be there? (what i mean is, how would the board look before Spring 01?)

[CrystyB]

Clarifications request: Round 1, did the black Bc8 move to f4? If true, why isn't it bolded? (i hate to be the only one to misorder )
Round 2: wdym black Bf8 S Nc3? There's no bishop @ f8, it's @ f7...
And this last round: what did dethy's Bb7 do? Bounce the pawn out of d5 allowing me to capture or support an inexistent d5 to hold, failing, but allowing d6-d5 to succeed? In any case i think the bishop should not be in d5...
And did the rook move to e8 or not??

PS I have made a raw RealPolitik version (and uploaded it), but the colours are absolutely poorly-chosen. And i can't think of how to combine 6 visible colours for each player... John, if you're reading this, do you have any ideas why the orders graphics are displayed UNDER the units' icons??

Anyway, i edited it by hand...



[This message has been edited by CrystyB (edited 12-19-2002 06:09 PM).]

[Antrax]

Crysty,

That's really cute. Why are the arrows in different colours? And why doesn't it support castling?
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[Antrax]

Another problem, it lets pieces bounce other pieces even if they're blocked. My example, Queen on d8 tries to move to g5, Nf6 in the way, it tries to move to e4 but fails, yet it still bounces the Bc1-g5 move.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[Antrax]

Additionally, the holds/attacks are calculated like normal Dip, and not like Dip Chess, ie one attack vs. a unit holding should capture it, not bounce.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[CrystyB]

1. d8 is adj to g5, and the problem is that a move d8-g5 won't bounce off any pieces in the way - so it would even succeed if Bc1 wouldn't have moved to g5. There's not much i can do about this, except building my own rules, in LUA (see below).
2. Well it *is* Dip. Until i decide to modify the rules, anyway. I've had the most annoying time trying to make RP dislodge attacked units (Pasting edited orders after resolving would work, except for those captures) - i failed and finally decided to edit board situation by hand.
3. Castling?? What's that? RP is about Dip after all. It woks on graphs of possible moves, not depending on the pieces or powers that try to move. In fact, Ba1-h1 or Ba1-b3 would work...

Future developments: the RP has a patch that allows external order processing, using a procedural non-OO script language, LUA. I could try to look into it, but i think i done enough already.

PS You haven't answered ANY of my clarification requests. I'm upgrading them to complaints!!

[Antrax]

[CrystyB]

ah, damn, i typoed. I meant the bishop that started in f8 was moved to g7. The order should've read Bg7 S Nc3...

And *now* i understand what B s d5 really means...

[Antrax]

dethy is a big wuss and decided he stood no chance. Hence, he ordered "all units hold", which actually let him live to run another day.
Fall 1903, send moves, deadline Jan. 6
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[CrystyB]

His only likely chance of escape (i would have had the lousiest time trying to mate a king that has 8 available squares... ) was Kxg7, supported by the rook. I had no defense on that, and the king got a step closer to freedom.

So now i claim victory: Qxh8, supported by the Bg7 and the Nf7. And the Ng6 to show off.

I think the winning conditions need rethinking. In rest, it's quite a thriling game. Well done thinking of it.

[Antrax]

You can't really claim victory, black can play Kh7, which you can't bounce.
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"

[CrystyB]

So dethy are you interested in continuing this?

[Antrax]

I think he resigned a while back (though IMO he could live to run a couple more seasons, and maybe win with a surprise all-out attack on your king).
Antrax

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"If it comes down to a choice between being unloved and being vulnerable and sensitive and emotional, then you can just keep your love." -Victor Mancini, "Choke"