Hom(o)eopathy

[winterHLepsilon]

I recently watched a program that talked about homeopathy. (Horizon, Homeopathy:The Test) And I think this homeopathy stuff is fascinating.

Although strict lab experiments show that highly diluted water appear to have no effect whatsoever, the therapy does seem to have the ability to cure patients. Science says homeopathy is nonsense of course. Water containing 1% toxic substance is diluted to such a stage that not a toxic molecule is left, so apparently this IS pure water. But can it cure people of horrid diseases? A renowned French scientist carried out researches and decided on 'the memory of water', and got his findings published in Nature. And then under James Randi (the magician)'s supervison he did the experiments again and ooops--nothing turned up! Total mess! The homeopathy water appeared as dumb as ordinary water. So, his name was ruined in some way. And then Randi said he would give 100 million dollars to any perosn or organization that could prove the meomory of water and nobody dared to try although lots of magical thing about homeopathy occured, including tests on animals proving this definitely wasn't the placebo effect. And then this program Horizon decided to try and --failed.

So does homeopathy REALLY work? What do ya think?
_________________
*HL--^H^e^L^en *
=A girl from Guangzhou, China, Asia=

Ask, and it shall be given you;
Seek, and ye shall find;
Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

[Dragon Phoenix]

it works sometimes in the sense that a placebo sometimes works. It actually is an expensive placebo with a fancy name. IMHO of course.

[Chuck]

Sick people often get better without any treatment. If you use homeopathy on patients with colds you're going to get a high cure rate.

[mole]

I diluted my vote to make it more powerful.

[Lilifreid]

You can't dilute a 1% solution to 0%. You may be able to purify the water in another manner, but just adding more water doesn't get rid of the substance. So there may be very few molecules of the toxic substance in the new "treatment", but there aren't zero molecules. Unless they were doing something opther than diluting.

And doesn't homeopathy include techniques other than dosing people with poisoned water?

[Antrax]

But Lili, molecules are discrete objects, so you end up with having a molecule of X in 1 out of 100 bottles, and only water in the other 99, or so.
Antrax
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[One Skunk Todd]

Just a slight nitpick. James Randi, http://www.randi.org/ is only offering one million dollars for the successful demonstration of ANY paranormal, supernatural, or quack science phenomena. So far no one has taken him up on his offer.

[extropalopakettle]

I think the definition of homeopathy is the treating of a disease with substances that produce the same or similar symptoms as the disease. That's the basic principle. In practice these substances are diluted, often to the point where all that's in the bottle is pure water. The claim is made that the water has some sort of magical "memory" of the substance - that pure H ₂ O that has been in contact with arsenic (but contains no arsenic) is somehow different than pure H ₂ O that hasn't. The problem with that is: a) no explanation of the nature of this "memory", b) no experimental evidence for it outside subjective anecdotes, and c) all water would have at one time or another have been in contact with arsenic (for instance).

That said, much of what is labelled (mislabelled?) homeopathic does work.

[Guest]

What DP said. I dated a girl once who was into homeopathic remedies. She once brought over to my house a packaged product that exclaimed to be "homeopathic.

I asked her what the ingredients were. She had no clue. The fact that it claimed to be a "homeopathic" product was good enough for her. She didn't want or need to know anymore.

This same woman had worked for 10 yrs + at a hospital nearby in the psychiatric ward. She firmly believed that an upset person could be subdued by feeding squirrels, weaving baskets or watching perching birds eat.

She also had friends who claimed to have been abducted by aliens.

Needless to say, she believed them.

We didn't go out for long. I probably shouldn't share this but she was a redhead and had an orange bush. Not an orange crush, an orange bush.

What is it with women with orange bushes? They have no sense at all, that's what it is.

[chief]

^..

[Legend of Tenshi]

Is it just me or was that NMS?

I have a feeling that Homeopathy is the placebo effect in action. When a "Shock, Homeopathy actually works!" article gets published in a good medical journal I will take note.
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Tech support sucks

[winterHLepsilon]

Do you think it is probable that if somebody believs something, puts definite faith in something then that something becomes real to him even if it weren't?
_________________
*HL--^H^e^L^en *
=A girl from Guangzhou, China, Asia=

Ask, and it shall be given you;
Seek, and ye shall find;
Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

[winterHLepsilon]

[Antrax]

[winterHLepsilon]

Er...like, well, actually this some therapy doen't work, and you believe that it CAN work, so you take it, and does is work? =confused =

=what is the difference between mind and body? is there a clear boarder between them?=
_________________
*HL--^H^e^L^en *
=A girl from Guangzhou, China, Asia=

Ask, and it shall be given you;
Seek, and ye shall find;
Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

[Antrax]

[Legend of Tenshi]

I think she may be stumbling across the placebo effect Antrax.
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Tech support sucks

[winterHLepsilon]

Maybe I am... And this thing happens in...illusions maybe? I'm not sure. Does believing your mind concern egoism/idealism..?
_________________
*HL--^H^e^L^en *
=A girl from Guangzhou, China, Asia=

Ask, and it shall be given you;
Seek, and ye shall find;
Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

[winterHLepsilon]

I just thought about something while viewing the post about 0.000000....001 in Visitor Submitted Puzzles. If some toxic substance is diluted to a concentration of 0.000000.....00001%, and if 0.00000....00001%=0, then there is no toxic substance in the solution, just water!!
_________________
*HL--^H^e^L^en *
=A girl from Guangzhou, China, Asia=

Ask, and it shall be given you;
Seek, and ye shall find;
Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

[extro...]

I once saw an advertisment on the back of a truck for a water filter company that read: "Your body is 65% water. Don't you want it to be pure?" I'm thinking, no, definitely not.

[Antrax]

I wonder if they thought of the Dr. Strangelove reference.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Tongan Chap]

[Antrax]

Homeopathy isn't science. The theory offers no predictions that are refutable by experimentation.
How do you measure the "strength" of natural compounds?
Antrax
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Tongan Chap]

~Shrugs~

I don't know.............I'm a herbalist

[casinopete]

[Antrax]

I've heard this argument before. I'm not quite sure what people want more than statistically meaningful research. Comparative research HAS been done, especially since you're talking about psychiatry, not psychology.
And nobody said only science works. I was just commenting.
Antrax
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[casinopete]