Ask about Atheism

[Samadhi]

I've been following the other threads (the Christianity one is hard to keep up with though). So I thought I'd start this.

If you've got questions, shoot.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Since when are you an atheist? I thought you were a Buddhist?

[Legend of Tenshi]

Is it a pre-requiset (spelling?) to love you sometime?
_________________
Tech support sucks

[Antrax]

Do you believe there's no God?
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Celt]

What do you make of the following?

1. Everything that comes into existence must have a cause.
   
2. There cannot be an infinite series of causes of things that come into existence.
   
3. Therefore, there must be a first cause that did not come into existence but has always existed.
   
4. Therefore, God exists.

Either you have an infinite series of causes or something that always existed. Either way you must accept something "supernatural".

Is it the old man with the white beard you reject or is it all forms of "supernatural" creator?

[Antrax]

[Guest]

How do atheists marry? Where do they bury their dead?

[Guest]

Says who?


*heh these ask about threads are easy!*

[Antrax]

~blink~
Sometimes I think some GL members really need a seminar in logic.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Guest]

Do you mean me?

[Phil_The_Rodent]

[doormouse11]

[Celt]

[doormouse11]

Why/how do atheists believe in the non-existence of God? Does it require a degree of faith?

Are there any ideas/philosophies, other than the non-existence of God, that unite atheists?

Do atheists have any positive beliefs? (ie, belief in X, as oppose to belief in not-X)

Is life good, or is life bad?

Since God doesn't exist, do we have freewill?

Do Atheists have any explanations for how the universe began?

What happens when we die?

Do people have souls?

Why is religion so widespread?

Is life fair? Is the world just? Is life random? In the absence of a just God, would any sense of fairness cease? Or is the world pretty orderly on its own? (does this question make sense?)

How are morals defined?

What makes a person good/bad?

[Celt]

[Samadhi]

DP: Since when are you an atheist? I thought you were a Buddhist?
Twenty years or so? I am.

LoT: You've got to love Samadhi.

Antrax: Do you believe there's no God?
Yes.

Celt: Is it the old man with the white beard you reject or is it all forms of "supernatural" creator?
When I say there is no "God," I mean that there is no supreme consciousness that created everything nor aware of everything nor in charge of everything. When I say there is no "God," I mean what you see is what you get.

Guest: How do atheists marry? Where do they bury their dead?
Same as other people. Marriage cerimonies are primarily for family. And a burial certainly isn't for the corpse's benefit.

[Celt]

[Celt]

Does being an atheist automatically preclude a belief in ghosts, UFO's or other unexplained phenomena in the absence of a proof?

[Celt]

[Phil_The_Rodent]

[Celt]

[Samadhi]

Doormouse11:
Why/how do atheists believe in he non-existence of God? Does it require a degree of faith?
Your question here assumes that a belief in God is the starting point and that to get to atheism you must go through a process to "unbelieve." I see it as quite the opposite. For any premise X, it should be proved, not assumed true then unproved (there are some exceptions, wild beliefs about burning bushes are not one of them.)
It does not require a degree of faith.

Are there any ideas/philosophies, other than the non-existence of God, that unite atheists?
Not to my knowledge.

Do atheists have any positive beliefs?
This question displays a common frame of mind of believers who encounter atheists. My atheism IS a positive belief. I believe in the natural world and science.

Is life good, or is life bad?
Life is what you make it.

Since God doesn't exist, do we have freewill?
I don't see why God would affect freewill any more than the universe would. I don't know whether we do. It feels like I do.

Do atheists have any explanations for how the universe began?
Lots of them. And they don't involve turtles, or planets spewing out of dead gods, or whatever. They deal with science.

What happens when we die?
Poof. Na, na, na, na. Na, na, na, na. Hey, hey, hey. Goodbye.

Why is religion so widespread?
Because we didn't have the science we have now back when we were just creating civilization. Every culture came up with a creation mythos to explain where everything came from. Also, it relates to your last question. Everyone wants to know what happens when we die. And everyone (myself included) doesn't want to believe it's all over after just a handful of decades. It's much more pleasant to believe that we all live forever and we'll see our loved ones again. Enter religion.

Is life fair? Is the world just? Is life random? In the absence of a just God, would any sense of fairness cease? Or is the world pretty orderly on its own?
The world happens. It's not random, there are causes and effects, but assigning terms like "fair" and "just" to life is like assigning colors to sounds.

How are morals defined?
I assume you don't want a textbook definition for what morals are. I assume you want to know how good morals are determined. Personally I define someone to be moral if they do not hurt others for their own gain. It's considerably more complex than that, but I really think I base my morals the same way (most) everyone else does. A lot of people claim they believe in morality because it's what God says, but that's not it. They think that way because they think it's right/wrong.

What makes a person good/bad?
Sort of answered above. But to add a bit, if someone is a benefit to others then that person is good. If that person is detrimental to others then that person is bad.

[Samadhi]

[Phil_The_Rodent]

[Samadhi]

[Samadhi]

[Phil_The_Rodent]

Not that it has to do with God, per say, but above you seem to not dismiss the possibility of ghosts, but you dismiss the case for life after physical death. How do you justify this? Just curious...

[Samadhi]

It had more to do with 'unexplained phenomena.' I don't discount that these things may actually have been witnessed. That doesn't mean I accept the explanation of 'ghost' or 'spirit' for these phenomena.

[Antrax]

[Dragon Phoenix]

[AgamemChap]

Following on from what DP said, how do you percieve a 'god' to be? I'm asking this because in Buddhism, Siddhartha was seen as 'different' at birth.

[Celt]

God has many manifestations, depending upon the religion in question. Not all people who believe in God, think that he is all-knowing or all-powerful. Some people just define God as the creator of life on Earth and are quite happy to accept that God is an alien race who are conducting a genetics experiment here on Earth, who from time to time intervene by performing technological feats such as artificial insemination which at the time would have been perceived as a miracle. What I have tried to do is define God in terms of the lowest common denominator.

I guess, to explain my standpoint, I need to describe where I'm coming from. For my part, I could probably be described as a non-practising agnostic. My belief system would border on yours, in that it is only a short step from agnostic to atheist and so it is more interesting for me to explore the margins rather than the core. This is probably why my questions seem a little "weird". I have no idea what God is but I have placed limits on what I will accept as God and I believe that such an entity exists within the scope I have allowed. I accept many distinct and sometimes mutually exclusive belief systems. So long as they are consistent and reside completely within the limits I have set, then I am quite willing to believe them. For instance, if aliens landed and proved to me that I was the result of a genetic experiment, I would not define them as God. I do however believe that there is an overall plan, although I don't go along with the idea that the fine details are worked out. For instance, I see that there is, in general, an increase in the level of complexity in the universe while at the same time entropy is increasing. I also believe that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, so that a person is more than just a collection of molecules. This extra essence is what I define as a soul. For me, everything has a soul which is characterised by the complexity of the body in question. I believe the physical world, as we know it, to be like an umbilical cord for this "soul", nurturing it. The plan, in this case, is to promote creation and eschew destruction allowing for the development of more complex structures. When I am destroyed my "soul" will survive. When the final destruction/BigCrunch/whatever of the universe comes to pass, I believe the sum collection of these "souls" will still exist as a manifestation of God. Of course, I have other beliefs too. I wouldn't sell my soul on e-bay, for instance.

Perhaps I am too chicken to take the final step. While atheism does offer a certain amount of freedom, I would not be willing to give up the comfort level that belief in God gives me.

Anyway, this is why I am willing to accept the "first event" as a manifestation of God.

[Celt]

On the issue of "first event".
By "cause" I mean any set of conditions which must have existed to produce something.
Would you agree that if something exists now, then it was either created in some way or it existed forever or it's in some form of oscillation or cyclical creation/transformation/destruction cycle?
Either way, the conclusion must be that
(a) something exists forever (perhaps oscillating),
or (b) there is an infinite or cyclical chain of causes which as a system exists forever
or (c) something got created first.

What other scenario could there be?

On the infinite causes thing:
If something's existence was caused by something whose existence was caused by something ad infinitum, then they must exist within a system which is infinite.
If the system is finite, then this system must at some point have been created.
I am not saying that you must choose which is correct, I am saying that regardless of which scenario you choose, it necessitates the acceptance of the existence of something beyond our observed reality.

My purpose in probing this way, is that for me, since I must accept the existence of something beyond my observed reality, I have chosen to call it God. I believe that our reality is created "in God's image", in the sense that it reflects the nature of God in some way. I believe that gaining knowledge about the universe is "looking into the mind of God". I just wondered about the thought processes involved when an atheist is confronted with the need to accept something beyond our reality, whether it's colliding branes or expanding black holes, which is necessary to provide an explanation of our existence, yet is pure speculation. How do you feel about accepting these scenarios without proof? Why not opt for a loose definition of God and the existence of an afterlife and get the comfort factor as a bonus? You might say that this is being untrue to yourself, but who cares? It's not like God is watching? Who's to know?

Enough about me.

*** And now we return to our regular program ***

[Phil_The_Rodent]

Well, here's at least one case where a choice is made to believe in God because that choice brings comfort. Just kidding, I'm not really on that again...

My post is because Celt, you seem to use the Big Bang as proof in God, but, at least it seems to me, fail to see that there was no space to exist in, and no "forever", before the Big Bang as the Big Bang is actually what caused space and time. There IS no forever before the Big Bang: there is no time for there to be a "forever". This is my biggest problem with popular conception of the Big Bang. "Something and exists and forever" all need dimensions to make sense. The singularity was not a point floating in space, the infinitely small thing encompassed everything. It WAS all space and time and probability and whatever else. I'm definitely not one to argue facts about the Big Bang or anything in the realm of physics: this is just my understanding. I'd love some elightenment on this if anyone has some, or a good book to begin understanding Quantum Physics.

I do agree with some of your points, though, Celt: so I'm not against you. Just offerring some food for thought.

[Samadhi]

DP & Aga:
I believe the four noble truths and try to follow the eight fold path. In my mind that is sufficient for me to consider myself a Buddhist.

Celt:

[Samadhi]

Celt:

[Celt]

[casinopete*]

[Celt]

[Aarondalf]