Ask about Islam

[wordcross]

How do you reply to scientific studies that indicate that homosexuality is genetically based?
Until they find the "homosexality gene" I'll take it with a grain of salt. Although, technically speaking, I'd say it would be rather difficult for homosexuality to run in the family... um... without both a mother and a father...

And taking that one step further, suppose that it was proven to be genetically or rather biologically determined instead of being a "choice," how would you reply then?
I'll burn that bridge when i come to it. Personally, I don't believe it can happen, since i believe it to be untrue.
Questions like this one are really asking "If science proved that something in your religion was wrong, what would you do?" Well, I've got two choices (well, three). One, I believe the science of an imperfect man. Two, I believe God's word. Three, I believe neither and form my own hypothesis. You can probably guess which one I'd choose.
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[Samadhi]

So do you believe then that your attraction to women is because you choose to follow God's will (assuming you're attracted to women)?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Guest]

Ask about Islam? Okay. What about it?


(sorry, wordcross. just thought I'd break up the monotony of all the intelligent questions)

[Samadhi]

That is your forte.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[wordcross]

So do you believe then that your attraction to women is because you choose to follow God's will (assuming you're attracted to women)?
My attraction to women isn't because I choose to follow God's will. My attraction to women is already there, by God's will.
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[wordcross]

Ask about Islam? Okay. What about it?

Anything you want.
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[extropalopakettle]

[wordcross]

So would you speculate that homosexual men do not, by God's will, have an attraction to women, but rather to men...?
No, I would not speculate that.

...or would you speculate that they do have this attraction to women, but choose to go against it and have sex with men instead, whom they are not attracted to?
I don't think that gay men sit there and think "Hmm, I'm attracted to women, but for the hell of it, I'm gonna have sex with men, even though i think they're unattractive."
From my point of view, God has willed it so that normally, everyone would be attracted to the opposite sex. But in societies like America and Europe, there is an abnormal contrast between the sexes (due in part to the growth of feminism, for example) where the natural attraction between sexes is sometimes sublimated by an overriding sense of alienation between man and woman.
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[OcularGold]

[wordcross]

point taken. I said that more for levity than actual argument, but point taken none-the-less. Doesn't change my position, though.
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[Mackay]

[extropalopakettle]

Then there's the Simpson's episode where the Simpsons' house gets robbed on Christmas eve. Homer is relating the story to Moe the bartender, who says: "You know what I blame this on the breakdown of? Society!"

[Samadhi]

Can Muslims dress up for Halloween?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[wordcross]

Can Muslims dress up for Halloween?
Can they? sure. should they? I'd say probably not. Despite being so commercial, it's still based on A) religious beliefs not accepted by Islam and B) the "Evil" side of the religous beliefs at that. Or if you want to get technical, it's based on ancient pagan rituals, which is just as bad in the eyes of Islam.

As a general rule, Islam has two yearly holidays. One at the end of Ramadan, and one at the end of the period for pilgrimage. Outside of those, conservative scholars would argue that there should be no celebration of other holidays, most especially those created by non-Islamic cultures. Less conservative scholars would say to avoid non-Islamic cultural holidays, and more liberal scholars would probably say to heck with it, as long as you don't embrace the reasons for celebrating the holidays, there's no reason that you can't join in the fun.

Personally, and in the community here in Raleigh for the most part, you'll find mostly the semi to ultra conservative point of view prevalent. So no wearing costumes or going trick-or-treating. It is often seen as a way of preserving muslim identity, to distance one's self from western culture.
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[Rudy*]

Perhaps not such an unexpected follow up..

What happens if you are homosexual but don't act on it and live a good life?
1) Do you still get to heaven?
2) Do you get virgin blokes? or
3) Does God 'fix' you when you get there?

[wordcross]

Yes
No
Yes

in that order
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[Mackay]

lol @ virgin blokes

I think this may have been asked before, but I don't remember it. is there anything that makes certain that a person will go to hell rather than heaven?

[Mackay]

*reads again* lol again, for the slight double entendre on 'fix'. Unless that phrase is only common in Aussieland.

[Guest]

[wordcross]

is there anything that makes certain that a person will go to hell rather than heaven?
There are actually a number of things outlined in the Sunnah. But then, there are also a number of things that will guarantee you heaven rather than hell. So the understanding is that for most things, the actions are meant to represent a bad trend in behavior that would cause the person to go to hell, or a good trend in behavior that would allow them to go to heaven.

First, a reminder that in Islam, if you have even an atom's weight of faith that Islam is the right religion, then you will *eventually* get to heaven.

So in order to get sent to hell permanently, you'd have to step outside of Islam somehow. The biggest thing one could do is to commit Shierk. That is, associating partners (including family) with God. a person who dies in a state of Shierk will never reach heaven. I'll go into more detail later, but I have a class soon, and have to go.

btw, guest, I haven't a clue what you're on about.
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[Samadhi]

[wordcross]

Well, to elaborate, Shierk is the act of saying that there is anything besides God that is like unto God. God has no family, no children, no spouses, no parents. He has no partners, no co-Gods, as it were. He is the one, the only one, there are no other like him or even close to him. He created everything that is, was, and ever will be. End of story.

How's that?
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[extropalopakettle]

Would Christians who believe Jesus is the son of God be guilty of Shierk?

[wordcross]

Yes
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[Stuie]

I don't know how to interpret that, as far as Christianity goes, really.

Oh wait, I do. See, Christians also believe there is one God alone, they just also believe that Jesus is Him. But because you guys don't believe that, that would be Shierk in your eyes. Right?


if we never acted on it, could you be my boyfriend and still go to heaven?

[Rudy*]

What you said implies that All christians, by definition, are screwed and I thought Christians are also 'people of the book' and so were therefore OK.

[Samadhi]

That was my thought too.....
Christians are "OK" because they believe in the same God, but only as long as they don't believe Christ is the Son of God, which given the meaning of Christian, pretty much means that in the eyes of Allah, all Christians are Shierk. Which makes sense, since it almost sounds appropriate, I mean if you change the ier to an uh, and the sh to a fu.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[extropalopakettle]

fuuhk???

[Stuie]

i think it's one of them buddhist words

[Samadhi]

Yes, it's a ritual administered by the head monk. It's intended to rearrange your kharma a bit, or mix it as it were. It's a fairly prolonged and painful practice so look out if the head monk says "I'm going to fuuhk you up."

[/hijack]
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[wordcross]

What you said implies that All christians, by definition, are screwed and I thought Christians are also 'people of the book' and so were therefore OK.

Calling Jews and Christians "People of the book" doesn't mean that they are saved. I've heard people who call themselves Muslim argue that People of the book will go to heaven, but they can never tell me why. Not coherently, anyhow.

The reason for putting Jews and Christians above other people is that they were religions once sent by God, and so interacting with them isn't so bad. Muslim men are even allowed to marry Jewish or Christian women, though it is discouraged. This doesn't mean that a Christian woman married to a Muslim man will go to heaven.

So, to answer the question, Christians are not "OK" as far as eternal salvation is concerned, but on the other hand, neither would i say that they are "by definition" screwed. Shierk is a surefire way to get into hell if and only if you are aware that Shierk is bad. The qualification for People of the Book to go to Hell is if they have been shown the truth (The proper Islam) and they reject it. So, for Christians and Jews who have not been shown the truth, they've not had the chance to reject it. Then again, God has charged even the people of the book with searching for truth and recognizing the signs, so one is not necessarily saved through the ignorance of religious stagnation.

So, bottom line, I don't know if all Christians and Jews will be sent to Hell automatically. Probably most of them will, but it's entirely possible that God will pardon those who made the best effort to understand their religion properly and just never happened to have found a good source to learn about Islam. Then again, He might not. But for sure, if you are given the truth and you reject it, then there's no hope.
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[Samadhi]

[wordcross]

[extropalopakettle]

[Samadhi]

[wordcross]

Given the truth in what sense? If you don't recognize it is the truth, even when it is spoken to you clearly, are you still condemned for rejecting it? Or do you mean rejecting it while knowing it is the truth?

There are two sides to it. If you do not accept it because you are unwilling to be open-minded or have other reasons why you resist the change, then it is still rejection of the truth. Certainly, if you know it's true, and reject it still, then it should be obvious.

And Samadhi, there are many examples of people who knew that Islam was truth and yet rejected it still. The Uncle of Muhammad, for instance, said many times that he knew Islam was truth, but would not embrace it because he would lose his position in the society that hated Muhammad. So although he protected Muhammad with whatever power he had, he would not risk his property and position by joining him. For this, God has given him eternal punishment, but far less than anyone else. His will be the lightest punishment, but it is still horrible. He will have shoes of fire so hot that they will make his brain boil.

If a person is presented the truth, but does not recognize it as truth and is unsure, then he should do more research or find out more about it until he is convinced one way or the other that it is truth or not. If, at the time of his decision, he accepts it, he is fine, but if he rejects it still, then he will go to hell.

as for those who don't do the extra research to find an answer, well, I can't say. That will, again, be the choice of God that determines his place in the afterlife.
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[Rudy*]

Wordcross, is it possible that you are wrong and Islam is not in fact 'the truth'?

If not, does that then mean that you are not being open-minded?

[extropalopakettle]

[Rudy*]

[extropalopakettle]

Well if God is all powerful, couldn't he easily deceive us? Why not send the prophet to lead us all with lies to eternal brain-boiling damnation, just for kicks? In my mind, the answer would be because God is good. There has to be something we can apply our intuition to so that we may judge what is truth.