I'm not the smartest kid on the block, but c'mon...

[Rino]

I assume from the description this forum is the replacement for educator ideas.

I've been a TA in organic chemistry for the last 4+ years, although I had always intended to go into a career outside academia when I graduate. I've had some mixed feelings lately about that decision.

I enjoy teaching, but for me it comes with a price. When students get what you're talking about, and you see the realization on their faces, it's definitely a rush. But there are always a handful that I feel would've been much better off going to a good trade school. I get frustrated talking to them, because I always end up answering the question they just said they understood. I can understand when you're dealing with grade/high schoolers that you have to have a great deal of patience. But by the time they're sophomores in college and they still just don't seem to get anything, I feel like they should start looking at other options.

How do you deal with these students?

[Antrax]

I think maybe you should vary your method of answering. A problem with many lecturers is that they repeat the correct answer whenever asked a question, but if the student doesn't remember what you've told him just yesterday about the same thing, it means he doesn't really understand you, which means a different approach is called for.
You could try analogies, explaining in different words, using visual aids, more body language, anything to try to get to him. It's possible that these students really are dumb as a post, but believe me, it's twice as satisfying making the dumb ones figure things out.
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Samadhi]

The process is extremely different for high schools and colleges, IMO. The implication is strong that you teach at college level, but you may just be addressing apathy. At which do you teach?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Vinny]

I recommend you move to Japan to teach there.

[extropalopakettle]

[worm]

I might just have more luck there, extro

The thing is it isn't that much more satisfying making them understand. At the end, I usually come away with the impression that they understand and for that moment, maybe they did. I'll ask them questions about it and they'll come up with the right answers. But that is all too often a fleeting moment. They come back not 5 minutes later or a day later and ask the same thing.

I didn't have TA's in undergrad, our school was too small. And I guess we knew the professors had open doors but we rarely bothered them. We pretty much either figured stuff out on our own or we got together in groups and hashed it out. Now, I enjoy giving office hours, but it's this handful who comes in thinking that there are no expectations for them to think about the subject before asking questions that I find irritating. And what's worse is when you have a lot of people there and there's one person asking questions from 3 chapters ago. For them to come into office hours right before a test and do that is a disservice to the rest of the group. This is not grade school where everyone needs to learn how to read. This is organic, and if they can't keep even close to the pace, maybe they shouldn't be looking to go to med school, etc.

[Leptonn]

I'm on my second year as a TA in 1st-year physics and chemistry. There are students who simply seem incapable of grasping the material, simple as it might be. Fortunately for me, so far these students have also been aware of this seeming inability. I find that a lot of students that appear to be incapable of understanding don't spend the time reviewing, doing homework, and preparing for labs. I have no sympathy for these students... fortunately, again, I am quite heartless...

[worm]

Yea, I wouldn't say I'm heartless, but I don't much care whether they're wasting their own time. I would like to be able to tell some of them they should drop, but that's just because I feel they're wasting my time or that of people who are actually coming prepared. That's my peeve. Oh and it probably doesn't help when I forget to eat lunch before an office hour

[GH]

I wish more students in my college classes would have gotten F's. I absolutely hated that my Statistics II professor spent several weeks re-teaching Statistics I because of all the morons who claimed "we never did arithmetic means." I'm sure it didn't help that math majors and business majors were in the same class together, but somebody who can't remember that basic concept for 4 weeks really shouldn't be there.

[worm]

argh, just gave them a test and they accused of us of having trick questions. we've dumbed it down so much we're giving multiple choice exams for o-chem, and they're still complaining, and i guess since it wasn't exactly the same as the homework, we're trying to trick them.

[Samadhi]

Why are you dumbing it down in the first place?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[worm]

b/c dumb people are easier to rule over

no, i actually have little say in it. it has to do with the fact that the professor came up for tenure this semester and the first vote didn't go so well. so 1) he doesn't care very much anymore 2) the scantrons allow his ta's do research instead of grading and 3) supposedly teacher evaluations parallel grades so he' going for some high marks on his last course which will be included in the final vote...but mostly #1

[worm]

[Guest]

[Guest]

That reminds me of a joke. I'm sure everyone will laugh so hard they will forget what thread this is.

What do you say to the student who got together and hashed it out?


You don't say anything.

You just pay for the pizza and let them get on their way.

[Antrax]

[Samadhi]

Antrax: Multiple choice questions are (as a rule) easier than fill in the blank. How can they not be? For example you have a question X is to Y as Z is to.......
I can not conceive how it would be more difficult to choose from 5 words as opposed to the whole English language (or more).

A good example would be a math problem.

Take the derivitive of blah blah blah...sine...blah blah...
If you have no clue how the math works you still have a chance with a multiple choice.

Other than that, I agree with your post. Teaching isn't easy. That's one of the things that makes it enjoyable. And because it is not easy, when my student has solved on their own, and learned, it is so satisfying.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Antrax]

Regular differential equations:
"For the solution of f''(x)=f(x) for which f(2)=5, f(3)=
a. e
b. 2e
c. 3e
d. etc"

Advanced Calculus II:
"The line integral on <f(x)> equals:
a. PI
b. 2*PI
c. -PI
d. -2*PI"

Just make sure you give enough answers so you can't guess it, and you're settled. As long as it's not about proofs, you can do difficult multiple choice tests in math.
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Guest]

i agree that multiple choice can be more diffiicult...they are certainly less forgiving.

our test was basically set up so that there were ~ 10 products in a box and one starting material that was exposed to various conditions in each of the different questions. as for what kind of product you get, there are only about 8 different reactions so far so you could just memorize that and narrow each answer down to two possible.

the homework they were given before the test had the same setup, the only difference being the starting material...the difference was that it was a trans alkene on the homework and a cis on the test. many of them just put the same answer they got on the homework (one of the two you could narrow it down to). the other one was the correct answer.

imo these questions were only tricky if you tried to memorize without understanding. my prof has always been against trying to trick students (not that i've tried). other questions on the test were taken exactly from old tests, the keys to which were posted on the website at the beginning of the semester.only now they had to pick the right answer from a group rather than coming up with it on their own. an example where multiple choice is easier.

i agree my attitude has come off poorly. i started this thread in part as a vent to some frustration i have had with a few of the students, and i by no means feel this way to the students in general.

as far as varying responses, i do try to vary as much as i can...e.g. some students respond well to 3D drawings on the board, others need to see models. when i see blank faces after i describe something, i try to rephrase my statement in a clearer way. as far as answering questions in class...as a ta i don't really have a classroom environment. i help students in my office area at designated times. right before an exam it can be a mob of people (500 in the class) so i handle that differently than when i only have a handful. with a lot of people it's usually round robin and i'm trying to answer a lot of questions as completely as possible in a short period of time. so i tend to answer questions more or less immediately. tbere's usually not as big a need to repeat questions since it's a relatively small space not a classroom, but i do sometimes when i can see people are talking to each other about the next question they're going to ask.

when i only have a handful, it's easier to be more interactive with each student. they'll ask a question and i'll draw something up on the board and ask them what's they think about it. if i see they have a pretty good handle on it and are just having problems with details, i'll try to guide them in the right direction. if they don't have a clue, i start with as basic an example as i can think of and take them through, step by step. in either case i try to guage their understanding after by asking them a new question with either a more complex structure or a slightly different structure that gives a different answer (e.g. the cis alkene vs. the trans alkene)

[worm]

why i wasn't an english major...took me so long to write, i got logged out before i could submit

[Antrax]

It's okay, I have a magical IP check button =P

In any case, do TAs over there only do reception hours? No recitations?
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[worm]

[Samadhi]

Ouch, I can't answer either of your questions Antrax. And I used to be a math major
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Lucky Wizard]

I think Antrax's first question has an infinite number of solutions...

The differential equation he gives has the answer ae ^x +be ^-x . There are an infinite number of (a,b) pairs that produce f(2)=5, each of which gives a different value for f(3).

I have no clue on his second.

And I'm curious to hear your modern algebra story. (Assuming of course it doesn't go completely over my head...)

(I don't have any thoughts on the actual topic of the thread, sorry.)

[Antrax]

I'll do my best to translate it. Terms in quatations marks are terms I don't know the correct English word(s) for.
For a group G, and an "item"x in G (ie, x belongs to G), x's "complmentary department" is the group:
x (with a roof on it. We really need a mathematical font)={b in G | for some g in G, a=gbg ^-1 }.
Calculate how many "complementary departments" "items" of order 6 have in S ₉ . Give an example for a representative of each such department.

Now, the question is pretty simple. You have the "attachment" lemma or what have you, so all you have to do is find all the ways to get [a,b]=6 while a+b<=9. However, many people went with the kneejerk of writing only two departments (a 6-circle, a 2-circle multiplied with a 3-circle) and missed on many other exciting combinations (2,2,2,3. 2,3,3. etc). Even I, who realised there are many more ways to get to 6 while staying under 9, missed two (I didn't realise I can also multiply the 6-circle with a 2 or 3-circle). I really don't think it means I know less modern algebra than someone who had thought of this combination
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Samadhi]

[austinap]

From a college student's perspective, I'd agree that there are a lot of people in majors that shoulnd't be in those majors, especially as far along as they are. It just seems like there are so many pre-med and engineering students taking these classes that the professors feel obligated to not fail half of them, so the entire class gets dumbed down. From the standpoint of GPA I cant complain, but for a student that actually wants to learn it gets quite annoying spending half of the semester re-teaching things that should be PRs for the class. I'm not sure if its becoming this way because people are getting lazier or because people that previously wouldn't have gone to college are now getting the chance, but I do thing it is a problem.