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Vinny
Promiscuous enough
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 Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:25 pm Post subject: 1 |
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No, I don't know anything about Buddism. Can someone Enlighten me? How do I achieve Nirvana?
I made this thread for Kd, because I am kinda sweet on her. So how about it Kd?
Why is Buddism appealing to you?
Do you believe in Reincarnation? Life After Death? Heaven and Hell, Buddah's style?
Some people have said that Buddishm is a Religion, but I have heard others that say it's more of a way of life (sorta like a guideline, principles to live by), and the religious aspect got affiliated with it because Indians and Chinese integrated their gods into it. Is this true?
Someone should go grab that Wise man Samadhi aka "Mad Monk" for me. He knows Buddah personally.
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The Ktulu
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:02 am Post subject: 2 |
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| Quote: |
| Some people have said that Buddishm is a Religion, but I have heard others that say it's more of a way of life (sorta like a guideline, principles to live by), and the religious aspect got affiliated with it because Indians and Chinese integrated their gods into it. Is this true? |
I guess people have different opinions, but what I find kind of amusing is that you can find Confucianism listen among religions (at the middle school I go to as a teacher's aide for one of my high school classes, the class--social studies--has a bulletin-board-like poster with six "major" religions: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and...Confucianism) I don't understand why this is considered a religion. Some dude said, You should act like this, with no divine involvement whatsoever, and it becomes a religion. Eh, whatever. |
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Ghost Post
Icarian Member
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:01 am Post subject: 3 |
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| Hinduism-Gods=Buddhism |
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:45 am Post subject: 4 |
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Whoa, how did I miss this? Sorry.
Buddhism appeals to me because the focus is much more on acting in a way that makes the most people happy. I find that other religions are more about putting a god or gods above everything else, and although that doesn't make me angry or anything, my personal beliefs don't allow me to do that. (I believe that some sort of spiritual entity DOES exist, but we have neither the knowledge or the power to define it.) Buddha didn't want or expect to be treated like a god, and he certainly didn't achieve that status.
I do believe in re-incarnation, yes. Not only does it seem fair to be either rewarded or punished for your actions accordingly, but I also believe that we get more than one shot at this life. This would consequently mean that I think there's life after death. However, I'm not convinced Heaven and Hell exist. Yeah, there's the reward/punishment thing, but it seems too easy to mess up if you're trying to be good all the time. I can safely say that nobody I know (IRL) would get into Heaven, so it can't be all it's cracked up to be.
Buddhism is a religion in the sense that people follow it and live by its teachings. It IS also a way of life, and the two things are fairly integrated. It's more relaxed than organised religion - as an example, Christianity teaches "Thou shalt not", Buddhism teaches that we should "undertake to abstain from". Buddha knew it wasn't easy to get these things right, and that if you didn't follow it totally from the outset, then it was ok. You can learn from your mistakes and move on.
Samadhi (the concept, not the GLer) is very important, but at the moment I can't remember what it is. Karuna is compassion, Dukkha is suffering, Anicca is... oh, I'll get back to you on that. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:03 pm Post subject: 5 |
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Hey, I'm important too!
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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UnheardVoice
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:14 pm Post subject: 6 |
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"Not only does it seem fair to be either rewarded or punished for your actions accordingly, but I also believe that we get more than one shot at this life."
But what is the point of getting "more than one shot at this life" if we can't remember anything about our previous life(s)? The phrase "getting a second chance" means an attempt to do the right thing after releasing that what they did the first time wasn't optimal. If we have had previous life(s), and yet we don't have a clear slate at the beginning of each one, are we really learning anything?
[edit: oops]
Last edited by UnheardVoice on Fri Dec 03, 2004 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject: 7 |
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We don't consciously remember, but our path towards enlightenment is furthered (or hindered) by our actions in the past life. The soul remembers, so to speak, but you do not.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 9:10 am Post subject: 8 |
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| Quote: |
| But what is the point of getting "more than one shot at this life" if we can't remember anything about our previous life(s)? The phrase "getting a second chance" means an attempt to do the right thing after releasing that what they did the first time wasn't optimal. If we have had previous life(s), and yet we don't have a clear slate at the beginning of each one, are we really learning anything? |
Ooooh... I'm not really a psychologist or anything, so all statements made below are personal opinions and shouldn't be taken as fact. (end disclaimer)
It's not that we can't remember, it's more that we have trouble doing so. Just as childhood memories are stored in the subconscious, so too are the memories of any past lives, hidden somewhere you can't get to.
I don't believe that re-incarnation is strictly "getting a second chance"... I believe it is a chance to improve upon your former self. However, I have heard and read theories of re-incarnations that severely punish "bad" people. As an example, if you break somebody's legs or something like that, then there's a chance you return with a lifelong illness that leaves you wheelchair bound. I don't think that's particularly true or "right".
As an alternative, I think that people come back to experience different situations in life - say, a social class or race that they previously felt some sort of hate towards, or a standard of living they deserved but never managed to achieve first time round.
Starting each new life with a clean slate wouldn't let you learn anything, because you wouldn't have anything positive or negative on your conscience to expand upon.
*hugs Samadhi* |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: 9 |
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| What happens once a person achieves enlightenment? |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:48 am Post subject: 10 |
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| It's more relaxed than organised religion - as an example, Christianity teaches "Thou shalt not" |
Actually Christianity teaches "Have faith in Jesus". And while there are sections of the Christian faith that could be called "organised religion", I don't understand how Christianity is more or less "organised" than Buddhism? (Honestly, I'm curious. I've never really understood the term.)
[/nitpick and random unrelated question] |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:29 pm Post subject: 11 |
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| Mackay wrote: |
| What happens once a person achieves enlightenment? |
You don't come back.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:18 am Post subject: 12 |
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That *is* similar to Hinduism. So you guys obviously believe in the human soul (something's gotta come back), when one achieves enlightenment, then, does it simply.... cease to exist? Or is there some kind of paradise? How does that work devoid of a higher power?
*genuinely interested* |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:06 am Post subject: 13 |
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Someone else should answer that. I don't believe in that stuff.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:45 am Post subject: 14 |
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Oh dear. As much as I wanted to try and explain Buddhism, I wasn't trying to get into a comparison with Christianity quite this quickly.  I shall do my best to be as clear as I can.
| Quote: |
| What happens once a person achieves enlightenment? |
Uhm... everything in your life that causes you suffering becomes completely unimportant. The first truth is that life = suffering, because so many things we bind ourselves to cause us pain. Once you are enlightened, nothing is binding you to your life and your suffering any more. Obviously, you don't immediately drop dead, but you gain a better understanding of human nature.
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| Actually Christianity teaches "Have faith in Jesus". And while there are sections of the Christian faith that could be called "organised religion", I don't understand how Christianity is more or less "organised" than Buddhism? |
Alright, my bad. This is more of a personal definition. I tend to think that if you're obliged to congregate in a holy building every week, you're part of an organised religion. Buddhist temples aren't generally places people congregate like that, because they're always open and welcoming at pretty much any time, and because there's always somebody there. I'm not saying that other religious buildings aren't welcoming - more of that in a minute - but having set times for worship pinned on a board outside kinda makes it feel like more of an institution.
This thing about open and welcoming and stuff... I have a confession to make. I can't enter a church, or even its grounds, since I converted to Buddhism. It's not because people turn me away, or anything like that. Whenever I walk near a church, some strange voice inside me tells me to go away. Almost as if the church is telling me to bugger off. It scares me somewhat, and I have no idea why it happens.
| Quote: |
That *is* similar to Hinduism. So you guys obviously believe in the human soul (something's gotta come back), when one achieves enlightenment, then, does it simply.... cease to exist? Or is there some kind of paradise? How does that work devoid of a higher power?
*genuinely interested* |
I don't think the soul ceases to exist, it just has no reason to return into a human or other living form. As for what happens to it... I don't know. I've never read any theories on it, despite reading up on enlightenment. There's nothing I could find on the stuff after enlightenment, just before.
Also, what's with the 'devoid of a higher power'? I already said I think there's something there... unless you think I'm on the same level... okay, okay, everybody worship me...  |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:37 pm Post subject: 15 |
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I said in the absence of a higher power because I thought that Buddhism was atheist by definition. I could be wrong.
And it's like Ghost Post (I assume RSA) said, once you put gods into the mix it seems not very different from Hinduism. Could you explain the difference?
When I spoke of what happens when one achieves enlightenment, I meant once you die. From what RSA tells me about Hinduism, once you live a life the way it should be lived, you don't come back, like Samadhi said - but there's a place (gah, I forget whether he gave a name for it or not, but I definitely can't think of it - anyway, a Heaven-type-place) where people's spirits go. With my assumption that Buddhism doesn't believe in higher powers, I wouldn't expect such a place to exist, because with the lack of belief in higher power comes a lack of belief in anything outside of the world in which we exist?
However, if this is not a belief that encompasses all of Buddhism, could you give a more thorough explanation of what you believe? Just so I know what's relevant for me to ask. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject: 16 |
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Nirvana isn't a place like heaven, it's a state of being.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:01 pm Post subject: 17 |
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| So it exists while the enlightened person is still alive? And after that, then...? |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject: 18 |
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No, it's a state of being that surpases corporeal existance.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: 19 |
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I'm on aim if you want to hit me. GLSamadhi
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:49 am Post subject: 20 |
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| I said in the absence of a higher power because I thought that Buddhism was atheist by definition. I could be wrong. |
Well... like I said, I think there's something out there, but I wouldn't personally define it as a god, meaning that I still believe in the existence of a higher power whilst being an atheist. That's more or less what I meant to say.
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| And it's like Ghost Post (I assume RSA) said, once you put gods into the mix it seems not very different from Hinduism. Could you explain the difference? |
I don't know enough about Hinduism right now to make a proper comment. What I will say is that although Buddhism is different from other religions, it has a wide range of acceptance. Buddha himself accepting many teachings of other active religions in his time as being perfectly valid.
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| When I spoke of what happens when one achieves enlightenment, I meant once you die. From what RSA tells me about Hinduism, once you live a life the way it should be lived, you don't come back, like Samadhi said - but there's a place (gah, I forget whether he gave a name for it or not, but I definitely can't think of it - anyway, a Heaven-type-place) where people's spirits go. With my assumption that Buddhism doesn't believe in higher powers, I wouldn't expect such a place to exist, because with the lack of belief in higher power comes a lack of belief in anything outside of the world in which we exist? |
(see the bit about the higher powers) Erm, as far as I can tell, any place that spirits go would be less like Heaven and more like Purgatory.. which is more of a middle ground, right? It's not a divine, amazing place, or at least, that's what I'm lead to believe.
However, I must also add that a lack of belief in a higher power doesn't mean a lack of belief in anything outside our world. Would life on other planets be considered a higher power? Does being an atheist stop someone from contemplating the universe? I don't think that's a fair assumption to make.
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| However, if this is not a belief that encompasses all of Buddhism, could you give a more thorough explanation of what you believe? Just so I know what's relevant for me to ask. |
Ooh... ok... I suppose I should start with why this all happened in the first place...
My main opinion of Buddhism is that following its teachings will give me and everyone around me a better quality of life. This is something that needs to happen, because I can't stand having depressive mood swings any more. I know I should be living life in a way that makes me happy anyway, but having that incentive makes it easier to stay on track.
Different types of Buddhists act in different ways, according to how much they want to embrace the religion. I'm a 'lay' Buddhist, meaning that I follow the 5 precepts but I'm otherwise living a normal non-religious life. Mahayana and Theravada Buddhists are more like monks and nuns - they follow far more precepts, and act differently in certain circumstances. Being a Buddhist monk or nun is more like following an organised religion, as there are things that they absolutely cannot do.
I meditate when I have time. It isn't easy to do, and I only spend around 1 minute doing it at a time, but it's a great way to clear the mind. Everything suddenly seems to fall into place at once... there are many ways to meditate, so you can go with what you do best.
I know I've left a lot out, but that's so you can ask more questions if you want. |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:52 am Post subject: 21 |
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Samadhi has explained a fair bit to me via IM, though I'm hoping to hunt him down again at some later time. However, his beliefs seem pretty largely different from yours.
However, you still haven't given me an explanation of exactly *what* you believe, though you did tell me a lot of what you *do*. I am curious, but I have nothing on which to base my questions at the moment. Please explain your system of beliefs?
| Kd wrote: |
| I don't know enough about Hinduism right now to make a proper comment. What I will say is that although Buddhism is different from other religions, it has a wide range of acceptance. Buddha himself accepting many teachings of other active religions in his time as being perfectly valid. |
I see. Maybe we could get RSA in here to write an explanation for you. I'd attempt it myself (actually I did, in this message window, and repeatedly deleted it 'cause it's inadequate), but yeah. He'd do a better job of it.
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(see the bit about the higher powers) Erm, as far as I can tell, any place that spirits go would be less like Heaven and more like Purgatory.. which is more of a middle ground, right? It's not a divine, amazing place, or at least, that's what I'm lead to believe.
However, I must also add that a lack of belief in a higher power doesn't mean a lack of belief in anything outside our world. Would life on other planets be considered a higher power? Does being an atheist stop someone from contemplating the universe? I don't think that's a fair assumption to make. |
No, it's not a fair assumption.
It's also an assumption I didn't make. I probably phrased myself badly; however, believing in aliens, and pondering the universe, is still limited to the tangible and corporeal. In order for a Heaven/Hell/Purgatory-type place to exist, however, something must exist outside what is tangible and corporeal. You believe that something does, as is evidenced by your belief in reincarnation. Samadhi does not, and doesn't hold these beliefs. I am trying to figure out what the commonly held/formally taught belief is, and learn about each different opinion.
You believe in a higher power, so this is pretty void as a question, but what I was getting at was: if such a place exists, how did it get there? With a higher power this becomes much easier to explain. |
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:19 pm Post subject: 22 |
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What I Believe (Personally)
I believe that doing my best to follow the Buddhist precepts is the most rewarding path in life I can take. I believe karma exists, and I'm pretty sure I've seen it in action. I hold the opinion that spirituality is important, everything has an aura, and re-incarnation is totally possible and probably still happening to people.
I think that the Buddha knew what he was talking about. Yeah, he'd seen every side of life and could therefore empathise with a majority, but after reading some texts based on his teachings, I reckon he made a lot of sense. I'm a strong believer in treating people equally and making the best of a bad situation. I don't believe in class distinction - I don't think it's fair.
However, I do believe in some things that conflict slightly with Buddhist teachings. The first precept is about not harming living things. That's fair enough, and Mahayana Buddhists are even vegetarian, just to be on the safe side. My problem with this precept is that it doesn't give any exceptions for self defence as far as I can see.
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It's also an assumption I didn't make. I probably phrased myself badly; however, believing in aliens, and pondering the universe, is still limited to the tangible and corporeal. In order for a Heaven/Hell/Purgatory-type place to exist, however, something must exist outside what is tangible and corporeal. You believe that something does, as is evidenced by your belief in reincarnation. Samadhi does not, and doesn't hold these beliefs. I am trying to figure out what the commonly held/formally taught belief is, and learn about each different opinion.
You believe in a higher power, so this is pretty void as a question, but what I was getting at was: if such a place exists, how did it get there? With a higher power this becomes much easier to explain. |
That has totally thrown me. I've always held the belief that Buddhism is one of the most spiritual religions there is, and that we're guided in some way or else we'd all be screwed. To be honest, I've never really had any conversations with Samadhi, let alone any on this topic. I don't know anyone else who is a Buddhist, so I can only speak for myself. I've done my best to be general about Buddhism, because there's so much variety in every religion that you can't cover all of it.
I'll have to refer back to my own research on this...
The first site I went to, which could explain rather a lot *sheepish grin*
I don't know if higher powers create spiritual planes. Religious study at school taught me that (in theory) they can create worlds, but they're worlds we can see and touch. I don't know about you, but I've never touched a spiritual plane. 
Important Announcement: I'm really sorry I can't provide more answers, or more substantial comments. Truth is, I'm still finding my way around. Having said that, discussing this stuff will probably help me understand more what I'm doing. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject: 23 |
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| Samadhi has explained a fair bit to me via IM, though I'm hoping to hunt him down again at some later time. However, his beliefs seem pretty largely different from yours. |
Interesting. I think if kd and I discussed things, we'd find that our beliefs are pretty largely similar.
To me, Buddhism really isn't about the next life, the after life or what ever. It's about this life. And the greatest thing, to me, about Buddhism can be summed up in one word: Acceptance. Acceptance of pain, acceptance of joy, acceptance of the way things are.
It takes work but it's well worth it.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua
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| Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:10 am Post subject: 24 |
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| *nodnod* |
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