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Paradoxes and Fallacies
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winterHLepsilon
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:42 am    Post subject: 41 Reply with quote

When a boy wanted to ask his girlfriend out to dinner he asked two questions. The first one was, (of course): 'Would you like to dine with me?' What was his second question?
_________________
*HL--^H^e^L^en Felicitous*
=A girl from Guangzhou, China, Asia=

Ask, and it shall be given you;
Seek, and ye shall find;
Knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
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Antrax
ESL Student



PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:47 am    Post subject: 42 Reply with quote

"Why is your sig so long"?
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kevinatilusa
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 12:23 pm    Post subject: 43 Reply with quote

"You don't trust me? Would I line to you?"
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groza528
No Place Like Home



PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:39 pm    Post subject: 44 Reply with quote

"Pah."
Oh wait. How about:
"Pah?"
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doormouse11
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject: 45 Reply with quote

Quote:
A similar argument can be applied to speciation. No single mutation makes for a different species, therefore new species can't evolve by repeated mutations.


I used to swear that every living thing was really the same species on this logic. Razz I also called everyone cannibals. But actually in biology, a species is a taxonomic group whose members can interbreed (www.hyperdictionary.com). And by that definition Mules are not of the same species as other mules, since they can't interbreed. haha
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Guest




PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:31 am    Post subject: 46 Reply with quote

Nor are mules actually alive.
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kevinatilusa
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:16 am    Post subject: 47 Reply with quote

That definition of species does get rid of one paradox.

However, suppose A can produce fertile offspring with B, B can produce fertile offspring with C, but A cannot produce fertile offspring with C.

Which pairs of them are the same species?
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....



PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:41 am    Post subject: 48 Reply with quote

"same species" is not transitive. A and B are the same, B and C are the same, but A and C are not the same.
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Doc Borodog
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:06 pm    Post subject: 49 Reply with quote

So I read about the Tarski & Hutch paradox, or whatever it is, with the cutting the one sphere up into 5 bits and reasembling it into 2 identical spheres, and I've reached this conclusion: Mathematicians are goofy. With the corollary: Man, am I glad I didn't become a mathematician.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Twin Paradox.
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....



PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:14 pm    Post subject: 50 Reply with quote

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Banach-Tarski_paradox

The good think about math, is that when mathematicians go goofy, you can point to the exact spot in their proof where they did it.
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kevinatilusa
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 1:14 am    Post subject: 51 Reply with quote

Another fun paradox:

There are two envelopes on a table, exactly one of which contains $20. Written on the red envelope: Either this envelope contains $20 or the statement on the blue envelope is false. Written on the blue envelope: Either the statement on the red envelope is true or the red envelope contains $20.

Where's the $20?
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Vegetable
cannibal



PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 5:00 am    Post subject: 52 Reply with quote

In either of the two envelopes. IT'S NOT A FREAKING PARADOX!
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Mgm
Roar!



PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: 53 Reply with quote

That would be the red envelope
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Vegetable
cannibal



PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: 54 Reply with quote

Tell me why it can't be the blue envelope?
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extro...
Guest



PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:02 am    Post subject: 55 Reply with quote

If it's in the blue envelope, then:

red : Either this envelope contains $20 or the statement on the blue envelope is false

blue : Either the statement on the red envelope is true or the red envelope contains $20

which is:

red : Either FALSE or the statement on the blue envelope is false

blue : Either the statement on the red envelope is true or FALSE

which is:

red : the statement on the blue envelope is false

blue : the statement on the red envelope is true

Now, if the statement on the red envelope is true, then the statemment on the blue envelope is false, and then the statement on the red envelope is false. Contradiction.

And, if the statement on the red envelope is false, then the statement on the blue envelope is true, and then the statement on the red envelope is true. Contradiction.
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Celt
still thinking



PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:06 am    Post subject: 56 Reply with quote

A comprehensive list of Fallacies can be found here.
Enjoy.
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Veg
Guest



PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:26 am    Post subject: 57 Reply with quote

So what? What does it matter what the envelopes say. We have no reason to believe either is true. Read the "paradox" again. One of these two envelopes has $20. There's some writing on the envelopes.
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....



PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 3:16 am    Post subject: 58 Reply with quote

Veg wrote:
We have no reason to believe either is true.


If one of the statements is not true, then wouldn't that statement be false?
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Dread Pirate Westley
Daedalian Member



PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:09 am    Post subject: 59 Reply with quote

Neither do we have any reason to believe the statements are false.

Based on the scenario as described, it is possible that the writing is completely unrelated to the location of the $20. I probably wrote it on there to confuse any GLers who thought they could steal my money. Felicitous
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....



PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: 60 Reply with quote

Vegetable wrote:
Tell me why it can't be the blue envelope?


I suppose it depends on what you mean by "can't".
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua



PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:47 am    Post subject: 61 Reply with quote

If you open the blue envelope, you get to go home with the $20, but if you open the red envelope, I can show you how far the bank vault goes. Razz
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CrystyB
Misunderstood Guy



PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: 62 Reply with quote

Doc Borodog wrote:
So I read about the Tarski & Hutch paradox, or whatever it is, with the cutting the one sphere up into 5 bits and reasembling it into 2 identical spheres
Whoa, wait a second there... What exactly do you mean by paradox?!? I see it as "conflicting with intuition", based on:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paradox wrote:
[Latin paradoxum, from Greek paradoxon, from neuter sing. of paradoxos, conflicting with expectation: para-, beyond; see para-1 + doxa, opinion (from dokein, to think. See dek- in Indo-European Roots).]
But then the five pieces are
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Banach-Tarski_paradox wrote:
albeit infinitely convoluted/complicated pieces, which individually are not measurable
so there is no intuition anymore. The whole thing deals with nonmeasurable infinite sets (and infinite sets are quite strange themselves), which are way waaay beyond perception, so it's merely a curious idea. I would not call it a paradox just yet.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Part two of this post deals with a much more labyrinthian topic. The unexpected hanging. http://rec-puzzles.org/new/sol.pl/logic/unexpected simplifies this to a two-day timeframe, and presents the whole idea as:
Code:
[1 => ~Ka 1] & [2 => (~Kb 2 & Kb ~1)] & [1 v 2].
Now answer me this: why am i to believe that the event occurs (whenever it does) totally unexpected? Why can't i expect it every single day in the timeframe (this does indeed change the meaning of "expectation", so there are different "unexpected"-s now, but i see no wrong in this), so that the only thing that is not right is the original announcement? If i say "I am dead, and have been ever since i was born", then there is no debate over the statement being false. Therefore i argue that the original announcement is false (actually, invaluable, in that it cannot or shouldnot be assigned a logical value, thus it is neither true nor false) (assuming the subject acts as i have described), and we cannot reason based on it. Exactly as in the envelopes' case just above... So i ask again: are these really paradoxes??
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