Questions for Catholics

[Courk]

I don't think Deacons take Holy Orders. They can be married, and if their wife dies, they can then take Holy Orders.

[Courk]

And I'm wrong again.

[jesus_saves]

[Jedo the Jedi]

I don't really know what to think about mudbuck's post. I get confused as I go through it and I've read it over about three times now. Can anybody help me with that?

GH, I do agree quite a bit. This is my perfectly honest opinion of Catholicism, and I'm sorry if anyone is offended. I think that Catholicism is like the period in the Bible during and just before Jesus time. The Pharisees have created or expanded these laws from the Old Testament, and are enforcing them quite strictly. 'Don't walk more than one mile on the Sabbath.' 'Make sure you have fresh linen of the 500 count for the Passover table.' 'Only sacrifice a lamb that is between 10.5 and 10.7 pounds.' That's what Catholicism seems like to me. Anyone else see what I mean? What's with the crossing yourself with holy water thing? Or having the priest give you communion? Kneeling, sitting, and standing at specific times? Exclusivity within the religion? Wearing these special garments (priests and such)? Does no one else see this? What is wrong with having a relationship with God and learning from him through the Bible? If ever there was a man-made religion, Catholicism really seems to be it.

I do apologize for that last statement, but I felt it needed to be said. Once again, perhaps I am completely off the beaten path with this, but somehow I don't think so.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Oh, one thing I did want to address about mudbuck's post, I do agree with the Christian's seemingly above others thing. It really is a shame that the actions of a few get put on the whole. I mean, we are special because we have this gift, but we want to share it. I mean, eternal life, who wouldn't want that? Some people are hypocrites, but that's just what we don't need to do: judge others. We as Christians should know that no one (including ourselves) is perfect. We shouldn't go around and point fingers at people saying that they are sinning and need to repent. We should instead try to share with them Jesus' and God's love for them and show them what is available to them if they want it. I think I said that alright, though I'm sure Mackay or Heather could do better.

[mudbuck]

What's with the crossing yourself with holy water thing?

Renewal of the Baptismal promise.

Or having the priest give you communion?

Reliving the Last Supper (symbolic)

Kneeling, sitting, and standing at specific times?

Sitting is like "at ease." Standing is showing respect. Kneeling is showing deep reverence and prayer.

Exclusivity within the religion?

What?

Wearing these special garments (priests and such)?

The colors on those things represent different seasons. That's about all I know.

What is wrong with having a relationship with God and learning from him through the Bible?

Everyth... Nothing in particular. It isn't morally wrong.
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[Jedo the Jedi]

The exclusivity in the religion thing refered to something GH said, I believe. It was more of an attack than an actual question. Sorry.

So, all of these things (crossing yourself, sit/stand/kneeling, etc.) are required by each member at Mass? And what about baptism/sprinkling? When does that happen and what does it signify? (I know what my denomination believes, I just want to know if it's different in Catholicism.)

[mudbuck]

Holy water, as I said, is for renewing the baptismal promise. It happens at the beginning of mass (refreshing one's self for the Christian God) and at the end of the mass (refreshing one's self for the rest of your week).

During special occasions, such as Easter and Christmas, many people who don't regularly come to Church come during these holidays. These days there is the sprinkling of the water over the people to make sure that the holy juice doesn't run out.

As for me, I actually pretend to really baptize myself. (I reach into the bowl, whether or not that I actually touch the water, and apply it in some random, yet close, fashion to the cross.)
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[Courk]

You don't have to sit/stand/kneel when everyone else does. You're supposed to stand during the Gospel, but I know the priest at my parish always says, "If you find it difficult to stand for the Gospel, it's OK to sit." You could kneel for the entire mass if you wanted - though your knees would hurt. You could also stand if you wanted to (often happens during Easter and Christmas, not enough seats). It'd be a bit rude to stand for the entire mass in the front row... Also during times when the church is packed, they often have extra chairs they put out - obviously no kneelers. You wouldn't be expected to kneel then.

Catholics usually get baptized when they're still babies. Later we go through Confirmation. If you're converting to Catholicism and haven't been baptized, you go through Baptism and Confirmation at the same time - Easter Vigil. If you've been baptized in another religion, you go through Confirmation at Easter Vigil.

[extro...]

[Jedo the Jedi]

What is Confirmation?

[Sessie]

Basically, "confirming" your desire to follow the Catholic religion. Your forehead is anointed with oil (which is symbolic somehow, though I don't remember the exact meaning), and you take the name of the saint of your choice (again, symbolic, no idea how anymore).

Oh, quick rundown of the seven sacraments for you, and for others who may be curious:

1. Baptism
Like Courk said, this happens for most Catholics when they're babies. Holy water is poured over the baby's head, and "washes away the stain" of original sin.

2. Reconciliation
That Confession thing we discussed earlier.

3. Eucharist (Communion, etc.)
Self-explanatory. The whole "take this and eat it, this is my body" deal.

4. Confirmation
See above.

5. Matrimony
Marriage.

6. I Forget What This One's Called...
...but it's the one where you decide to become a nun, or a priest, or what have you.

7. Last Rites, or Anointing Of The Sick
A priest absolves a dying person's sins so he/she is ensured a seat in heaven.

Okay, I think I'm going to step back and let Courk and Heather answer these from now on, since they seem to know this stuff a whole lot better than I can remember.
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[Courk]

Confirmation also has something to do with the Holy Spirit. I can't remember the phrasing right now, maybe I'll think of it later.

6 is Holy Orders. It's only for priests and deacons and all. Nuns do not get ordained. A guy can get all 7 sacraments, a girl can only get 6.

While Anointing of the Sick is the same thing as Last Rites, you don't have to be dying to get it. In 7th or 8th grade, my math teacher needed to have some sort of eye surgery, so one of the days before her surgery, a priest came over and performed Anointing of the Sick.

[jesus_saves]

[worm]

[/i]

[Mackay]

[worm]

[casinopete]

[extro...]

[mudbuck]

[extro...]

And you want to "get Eagle Scout" because ... ? I mean, if it requires faking to be something you're not, and have no desire to be, why bother?

[mudbuck]

Eagle Scout is proving that I am "physically fit, mentally awake, and morally straight." A small part of it is reverence, but I'm not going to be denied my Eagle just because of a biased rule.
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[Courk]

None of those seem like particularly good reasons to go to mass when you don't really agree with it. It's almost like you're mocking someone's religion just so you can be an Eagle Scout. Are there other ways you can appear reverent? Maybe join a church of a different denomination?

[mudbuck]

I don't agree with any Church.
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[Courk]

Oh. I must have misread. It still seems a bit hypocritical that you're being somewhat irreverent at something that's supposed to prove your reverence...

[worm]

[mudbuck]

It's just that the reverence part of Boy Scouts is baised toward non-believers. It is not necessary to believe in God to be smart, kind, obediant, etc. It has nothing to do with the entire concept of Boy Scouts.
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[UnheardVoice]

Personally, a think the whole anti-atheism bias in Boy Scouts is due to the idea that a Scout is supposed to be in service to something or an ideal. A good person to their country, their faith, their community; a person not acting like a Big Boss. Hence, "Do a Good Turn Daily". Perhaps it is linked with the concept of an objective morality, but again, it's just an opinion.

Of course, it isn't true that an atheist can't have morality. But to be religious is to admit that there is something beyond your comprehension to which you always serve, something that cannot be conquered, or understood. In other words, you can't ever be a leader in morality, dictating what's right or wrong, but rather a person who best serves his master's morality. There's been stories that they'll accept a belief in "Father Time" and "Mother Nature" as well, just anything that implies an objective moral code.

Kinda depressing really.

I'm curious if they'll accept a self-written moral code, like a "Rules to Live By", where you list your moral guidelines. I don't see why they'll accept pre-existing moral codes, but not moral codes that are derived from one's own interpretation of the world, and mix-and-match of previous codes but doesn't completely match any one of them, as long as it coincides with the Scout Law, Oath, and such. I'm also not sure if they'll accept agnostics.
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_{"Don't confuse me with those who cling to hope. I enjoy describing how things are, I have no interest in how they 'ought to be.' And I certainly have no interest in fixing them. I sincerely believe that if you think there's a solution, you're part of the problem. My motto: F**k Hope!"
~ George Carlin}

[Coyote]

My apologies for hijacking a perfectly good debate about Boy Scouts, and also for the simple-mindedness of this question in comparison to most of the issues I've seen discussed here. But this is something I've often wondered about in regard to Catholicism.

What exactly is a Rosary?

I mean, yeah, I know it's some kinda string of beads...but what's it for?

[mudbuck]

They're magical beads! For a less appetizing reason, it is really petals soaked in blood.
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[extro...]

The Rosary is a repetitious sequence of prayers, the main part consisting of sets of ten repetitions of the prayer known as Hail Mary, those sets of ten repeated five times, seperated by the Our Father (aka the Lord's Prayer), the whole thing preceded and followed by a few other prayers. I don't know the origin, but I always felt it was not consistent with Jesus' own instruction on how to pray, in which he advised against repetition. Actually, when Jesus was asked how one should pray, he advised against repetition, then said something to the effect of "pray like this", and said what we now know as the Lord's prayer. I always felt that was supposed to be just an example of a spontaneous prayer, and not something that we were supposed to repeat verbatim. Still, it's a short prayer rich in meaning, touching on so many points.

Rosary beads are just a device to help keep count while saying the Rosary.

[extro...]

[extro...]

http://www.answers.com/rosary&r=67

[Coyote]

So rosary beads are kind of like a holy abacus. I've never actually seen a set of rosary beads IRL. Is there some sort of pendant or something to remind you of where you started counting? Is every tenth bead a little larger?

I've always assumed that 'counting the rosary' was some sort of penance required after confession. So I guess saying the Rosary prayer x number of times is one form of penance? Is there a limit to how many times you can be required to say it for one transgression? Do all rosary-bead chains have the same number of beads?

Sorry for so many questions, but I've been waiting a long time to ask this stuff.

[edit]sorry extro, I was in the middle of typing this when you made that last post. Thanks for the link.[/edit]

[Courk]

Here's another link that's a bit more visual: http://www.rosary-center.org/howto.htm

I guess it could be used as a form of penance. I've never been told to say it, but I have been told to say 3 Hail Marys or something before.

I doubt if there's a set number of anything for a penance. It's not like the priest has a handy penance-book where he can look up "Oh, you stole a pack of gum? That's... one rosary."

[GH]

[Internet Stranger]

Im skimming through the thread and just noticed something. If you went through all the way to say.. oh.. confirmation. Is there a way to like oh... take that back?

There isnt like some Field Office at the Vatican that sends out Holy Bounty Hunters to go capture the stray confirmed sheep trying to run away, right? Do they keep like a giant log book of these people? Do they get put into some underground church dungeon and tortured until they repent once they are caught?
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[Courk]

Seven Sacraments:
1. Baptism
2. Confirmation
3. Eucharist
4. Reconciliation
5. Anointing of the sick
6. Holy Orders
7. Marriage

You don't have to go through all of them. In fact, I'd imagine it's very rare for someone to receive all 7 - since that requires a married man to later become a priest.

I'll skip baptism and communion, since you know about those.

Confirmation - According to the Catechism: "the reception of the sacrament of Confirmation is necessary for the completion of baptismal grace.[88] For 'by the sacrament of Confirmation, [the baptized] are more perfectly bound to the Church and are enriched with a special strength of the Holy Spirit. Hence they are, as true witnesses of Christ, more strictly obliged to spread and defend the faith by word and deed.'[89]"

Reconciliation - As I explained earlier, when you sin, you harm not only yourself, but those associated with you. You need to apologize to God and the Church, and to apologize to the Church, you need to go to confession.

Anointing of the Sick - Again, according to the Catechism: "By the sacred anointing of the sick and the prayer of the priests the whole Church commends those who are ill to the suffering and glorified Lord, that he may raise them up and save them. And indeed she exhorts them to contribute to the good of the People of God by freely uniting themselves to the Passion and death of Christ."

Holy Orders - It's how a guy can become a priest. It's accepting the "mission entrusted by Christ to his apostles," again according to the Catechism.

Marriage - Catechism: "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."

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IS: The Church isn't going to hunt you down if you decide to convert from Catholicism. They do keep records, though. The Church I was baptized at should have my baptismal records, and the one I was confirmed at has my confirmation record. My parents' marriage record is somewhere, too.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Wow. This just took off without me. I'll try to catch up this evening. Hopefully, I'll learn something from your many posts. Thanks for all the answers, people.

[GH]

Thanks, Courk. I knew what all those things were. I was really curious if there was any explanation of why some Churches call them sacraments and others don't. Like I said, the UMC recognizes all of those things as very important events in a "church life," but only calls Baptism and Communion "sacraments," ostensibly because they're the only ones that the Bible documents Jesus as having participated in. I'm wondering if anybody knows why they get to be "sacraments" in the Catholic church.