College Stuff

[The Ragin' South Asian]

GLers, like everyone else, get older. For the past few years we've had various getting into college related posts/threads, thought it might be helpful to have one thread where people put all their college related knowledge and questions.

I go to the University of Washington (www.washington.edu), so I know a few things about it. It's a big school, over 30000 students and 3000 faculty. Admissions these days are pretty competitive, so don't fall into the "I'm smarter than RSA, I'd easily get into UW" trap. I wouldn't get in these days. The campus is quite nice. The school's reputation nationally is pretty good and on the rise. Locally it's even better. There are a lot of good professors, and there are bad ones too- but with 3000, it's easy enough to avoid the bad ones if you know who they are. The same is true of the student body- you can definitely find people who you mesh with well, but you have to find them.

I know EEEM has a lot of positive things to say about going the smaller, liberal arts college route, so I'll just say a couple of things for the large university path. You can get pretty much whatever you want out of the experience- there will definitely be professors, peers, activities, etc. that will fit well with you. You do have to put the effort into finding them. As for the things that don't fit well with you, they will be easy to avoid. If I decided I hated all my friends tomorrow, I could easily not see them for the rest of my schooling, even the ones in my department. A lot of people worry about large class sizes- don't. Only lower level classes are big, and those aren't that bad. Assuming you have a good professor, they will make themself accesible. If you have a bad one, you're better off no t alking to them anyway. Plus, at UW at least, large classes only meet all together for lectures, and have smaller (about 20 students) sections with grad students for further discussion. Further, if the schools is public and you're in state, you'll save a lot. If it's public and you're out of state, you'll save a little. And if it's private it'll have other stuff to make it worth your while.

Also, etc.

[Courk]

I go to a larger public university. It's not quite as large as U Washington -- it has just under 25,000 students, I believe. If you packed your schedule as tight as possible, your classes would be 15 minutes apart. At first, this seems insane considering the size of the campus, but that's all the time you really need to get from the old side of campus to the science buildings. Yes, you'd have to walk at a brisk pace, but you'd make it. I'm sure biking would be even faster. On an unrelated note, you're allowed to eat and drink inside the library.

I agree with RSA about the large class sizes. Every large class I've been in has had teachers who make themselves so accessible. I've never gone to any office hours, but the professors do have tons of them if I ever wanted to go. Also, several lower-level courses had student-lead instructional sessions. Someone who had taken the course before and had gotten a good grade comes to the classes every day, takes notes, and leads a handful of review sessions every week, whether or not there's a test coming up. This, again, is something I never used, but I did print off a practice sheet and the answers that they would have done during one session -- I just did it on my own time.

When my high school class started the whole college application process, it seemed like I heard a lot of people saying things like private colleges offer more scholarships. I only applied to two colleges -- one private, one public. Only the public one gave me a full ride, and I even get excess scholarship money back in a refund. I'm not saying that private colleges don't offer full rides, I'm sure plenty of them do. One sample is hardly enough to form a good opinion. However, I do think it's best to keep an open mind. Choose the school you like more, and see how many scholarships they offer you. Even though it might be true that public schools offer less scholarship money, you still might get lucky. Remember, small scholarships add up.

[Courk]

Oh, also be aware of out-of-state schools that say they have the same tuition for in-state students and out-of-state students. I know Miami of Ohio is liek that. Technically it's true, but everyone from Ohio automatically gets a scholarship to Miami of Ohio

[Leptonn]

For those interested in an academic career, another big consideration is the reputation of the school where you complete your undergraduate studies. The best advice is to go to the most reputable school that has a decent department in your field of interest that you can afford. Although this is starting to change, an MIT undergraduate is held in higher esteem than, say, a University of Toronto undergraduate. This distinction will be most important when you are applying for graduate school, summer research projects, and external scholarships.

As a proponent of the "small school" philosophy, I think that the benefits of an education in a close-knit setting far outweigh any advantages that might come with attending a large university. In a small classroom, an instructor is able to actually connect and interact with the students. This has been shown to be essential to learning. It has been several years since I have sat through a class puzzling the meaning of a particular word, phrase, or definition. With a smaller class, it is usually acceptable to ask questions of this sort. In essence, you move from a Lecture to a Class, and there is rarely need for tutorials.

[The Ragin' South Asian]

I think the level of connection and interaction really depends on the professor (and students) more than the class size. I've had 300 person lectures where I feel right on the same page as the prof, and 30 person classes where I spent class time doing the day's crossword. Also a lot of profs will allow questions as long as they don't monopolize the time (and when they do, it's usually because of that guy, not because everyone has different questions). Further, even at a large school, you're not going to spend that long in the large classes, especially if you figure out what you want to do somewhat quickly.

[The Ragin' South Asian]

here were the main metrics I used in deciding where to apply

Academic Reputation: I used this more as a weed out than to rank schools. I wasn't really sure what I was going to do (though I had a fair idea of what I wasn't going to do), so trying to get super detailed with this didn't make sense for me. But Lepton's probably right if you know what you're going to do.

Price: self explainatory. if you can get a good amount of aid, you can lower the importance of this.

Location: my parents kind of scoffed at the importance I gave location, but really, it makes a difference.

If you have your eye on smaller schools, you want to be sure to find one that has an overall culture that fits youu well. My friends who go to smaller schools either love them or hate them. Social stuff is a big part of the college experience, you don't want to get stuck at a school full of people you hate. Culture is important at larger schools too, but they are more hetereogeneous imo.

[Courk]

Apply to the school's honors college, if there is one. I had a Sociology class with 200-300 people. I took Honors Psychology, and had maybe 30 people. If small classes really meant that much to me, I could have taken Honors Sociology, too. On the other hand, I took a history class with maybe 60 people. It's a bit on the larger side, but it's not 300 people. The professor still made it seem like a class of 30.

[EEEM]

First off I'm going to hit the financial issues that many people have with small, private colleges. Macalester now costs $36,000 a year (including room and board). I pay an insanely tiny fraction of that. I didn't apply for any special scholarships and only have about $1,000 in loans at this point and I'm a junior. I get federal grants as well as privately funded college scholarships. Now, I come from a lower middle class family who obviously can't afford $36k a year and that's part of why I get so much aid. I would have paid more at the University of Texas in Austin with in-state tuition and academic scholarships due to high ranking and test scores than I do at Macalester. I know it differs for different schools but don't let an insane number for tuition deter you from applying to a smaller, prestigious, private school. Many of them meet the demonstrated family need (determined by FAFSA) 99 percent of the time.

I don't think a small school is for everyone. I have friends who would love to disappear in a class of 500 people and scrape by with their degree having done the bare minimum. They don't want to be checked on or recognized by professors and staff. They don't want to recognize nearly everyone they pass on campus. I can totally understand that, it just depends on what you want. You can certainly feel like part of a community at a school of 30,000, but it's alot easier when your school has 1,800 students, like Macalester. If you want to have dinner at your prof's house, go bowling with the Dean, or babysit for the Director of Athletics, you've got a better chance at a smaller school, but it just depends on what you want.

I LOVE knowing my professors without effort. I love how many people will be able to give me excellent letters of reference when I graduate. I also love that I feel like I have great connections to many prestigious graduate schools and organizations I hope to work for some day. And I didn't have to try. I also like how I am not majoring in a totally different field than I ever would have anticipated because liberal arts does its job. I was exposed to and fell in love with a field I never considered because we offer so many different things and are encouraged to explore.

I like going to a school that not everyone and their dog has heard of, but those in the academic field respect. I like the international diversity. I like the domestic diversity. I like knowing punks, posers, geeks, gamers, outcasts, druggies, players, sluts, preps, democrats, republicans, libertarians, jugglers, rugby players, and nerds and having them all be within a two block radius of where I live. Going to a small school doesn't mean a static student population. Just depends on the place. I don't think small vs. large is going to get us anywhere, it really just depends on what a person wants out of their education, what their final goals are, and how much work they want to put into it.

College is so much fun.

[Courk]

I don't think this thread is for determining if a large school is better or worse than a small school. It's to provide info for the younger GLers so they can see the pros and cons of each. Like you said, it comes down to what each person wants.

[guest_austinap]

I've been to a few different schools, some I've loved and others I couldn't stand. Personally, I didn't like the small private school experience one bit. I went to St. Olaf for about a year after I got out of highschool and just couldn't tolerate it. It seemed like I saw the same people every time I turned around, and there wasn't anywhere to really get away to.

I now go to a much larger state school (St. Cloud) of about 20,000 students. I absolutely love it here. They actually have the classes I want to take, class sizes are reasonable (I end up taking almost all major classes, and have class sizes of 15-30 people, and even smaller labs). I have never had any problem finding professors if I had any questions, or feeling lost in any of the classes. Due to the larger number of professors, there are more diverse research interests to pursue. Also, the campus is big enough that I don't seem to run into the exact same people all the time.

Personally, I love the larger school environment. I like being able to get away whenever I want to, and I like the larget selection of classes they offer. I think no matter what, college is what you make of it. I love school.

[guest_austinap]

another thing I'd like to add is that if you don't like where you at, change it. Dont go through 4 years (or more) hating where you're at. Transferring is easy.

[Neo]

There are things I like and don't like about Fort Hays. www.fhsu.edu

I like how the physics department. Knowing what your department is a must when decidnig your major. I've never once said Dr. <name> to a physics professor. From day 1 it has been a first name basis. I think this makes them infinitly more accessible than most others. Not only that, but they hang out with the students. They're at club functions, not just because they have to or should be, but they also want to, and have fun. They all go to cookouts, bbqs, etc, that are held by students, as well as inviting students to their own. One even goes to an occassional party.

[dethwing]

Wow, those classes sound huge. At my undergrad I had a max of 30 people. That was LARGE to me. All of my math classes were 12 or less.

I literally had a class with TWO people (Counting myself!)
There were days when I was the only one in class.

[Ctorj]

I had a History or Architecture class that had over 1000 students in it.....needless to say, I dropped that class like a bad habit.
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[extropalopakettle]

Boy, you ain't kidding. I nearly died.