Ask about Islam

[Jedo the Jedi]

If they want to go to Heaven, yes.

[flaming hellbound homo]

What exactly would God/Allah have against sodomy anyway? If two consenting adults want to play plumber where is the harm in it?

[wordcross]

Samadhi wrote:

Quote: Do you feel there will ever be peace in the Middle East as long as Israel is around? Quote: No. Why?

A) Your quote tags are inside out.

B) I just don't think that Muslims, especially those in the region, will ever accept Jewish control of lands that are right in the middle of the Middle-East, especially with Jerusalem in question.

BTW...I perceive you as a moderate to liberal muslim, and I am VERY spooked by the fact that you think there can be no peace with Israel, and that the Constitution should be overruled by Islamic law.
My response that there will be no peace with Israel has little to do with my personal preferences. I don't think that there shouldn't be peace, only that i find it unlikely that there ever will be.

And why shouldn't I be in support of Islamic Law over *any* manmade system? I've said many times that Islam comes with a complete set of rules for society, including systems for education, a judiciary, politics, international relations, economics, etc. So, from an Islamic point of view, which is better, God's laws, or manmade laws?

Again, though, I think it foolish to even consider trying to convince Americans to adopt Islamic law. It would be wasted time that could be better spent elsewhere.

If the entire Middle East banded together to form one large Muslim state, then declaired war on the USA, who's side would you take?
That depends on *why* the unified Muslim Countries combined. If they banded because they believe that muslims should all be together in one unified Islamic State, ruled by Islamic Law, because that's what we're supposed to be doing, then good.

But:
A) I sincerely doubt any such thing would come close to happening, most especially for those reasons, within mylifetime.
and
B) Unless there was some justified reason for declaring war on the US (not just because America is "evil"), I would have serious problems with that, would question the motive for unification, and would stay out of it.

I also doubt I'd ever be on the US side either. If such a ridiculous thing happened, I'd move to Canada, forefit my American Citizenship, and stay out of it.

If the GL banded together and was neutral of either the USA or the Muslims, what would you do?
Assume that Borodog conscripted you all and that I'm next

What exactly do you mean by "no such thing as gay rights?"
For everything, or just marriage? Can a gay Muslim still worship in a mosque?
Okay, let me explain this again. From an Islamic point of view, no one is "born gay", nor does God "make you gay." Homosexuality is a product of nurture, not nature.
Therefore, as homosexuality is not allowed, there is nothing else to say about it. If you're a Muslim and you think you're gay, tough. Get over it.

Also, if someone in a Muslim country but who is not Muslim dances in public, what do you do with him?
Not much of anything, I reckon, besides perhaps urge him/her to stop. It's not *that* big a deal. Maybe if they were organizing a large public dance contest or something, there'd be more serious consequences.
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[Omega Centauri]

And exactly what consequences are we talking about?

What would be the consequences of dancing in public, or of eating pork in public, or of being a woman and wearing shorts and a T shirt, or kissing another guy/girl in public?

Death penalty? Torture? Jail time? Fine?

[wordcross]

none of those would be death-penalty serious. Torture is forbidden in Islam. Jailtime maybe. Fines more likely.

I think the order of seriousness, from lowest to highest would be: dancing, eating pork, improper dress, then the same-sex kissing. The latter would be the one most likely to land you in a great deal of trouble.
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[Samadhi]

Thanks for the answers, it makes me understand more. I did have two earlier questions just before that that you missed.

In re the whole gay thing, here's a hypothetical: Suppose science proved that there was a gene or whatever that caused a man to be attracted to others in the manner that women are (I.E. gay), what would your position be then?

[casinopete]

Jedo: Pretend posts 200 and 201 showed up in the Christianity thread. How would you react?

Samadhi: See post 121

[casinopete]

hehe. and post 120, for that matter.

[Samadhi]

Thanks CP. I was wondering if I'd get something better than "that can't happen" this time.

It's a hypothetical. Assume it to be true.

[wordcross]

My Apologies for Forgetting these

Does Islam believe in Satan? (besides the US I mean)
If yes, what's his story?
Yes, Muslims do believe in Satan

In Heaven, before God created mankind (Adam) there were the Angels and the Jinn. The Angels, beings of Light, are servants of God and have no free will. The Jinn, beings of fire, are more like men. They have free will to choose between what is right and wrong.

One of the Jinn, Iblis (pronounced: ib-lease) was one of God's best followers, and had a position of honour in God's court.

When God had completed the creation of the universe (2-29), He announced that He would create a Khalifa (vicegerent) on Earth, causing the angels to ask how He intended to place on earth one who shall make mischief and shed blood while they hymn His praise and sanctify Him. God answered that He knows what they do not (2-30).

So Allah created Adam and gave him from His knowledge what no other creature of his possessed, by teaching him the names of everything. He then presented them to the angels, and demanded that they tell the names (2-30), knowing that they would fail.

After the angels admitted that they have no knowledge except what He had given them (2-30), Allah commanded Adam to display his knowledge in front of the angels (2-33), and when Adam did, God commanded the angels to prostrate before Adam.

The angels all bowed, but Iblis did not, and disobeyed God. God asked him "Why do you not bow, as I have commanded?" Iblis says "You have made me of fire, and made him of clay. I am the superior being, and i will not bow to such as he!"

And so, for his arrogance and disobedience, God condemned Iblis to Hell. Iblis challenged God, however, to give him time to try and lure mankind into sin and damnation. He claimed that since mankind was such a weak creation, he would be able to influence them easily and turn them away from God's path, that they would join him in Hell on the day of judgement. God agreed to this, knowing that the power of Shaitan was of no consequence compared to the might of God.

And so Shaitan convinces Adam and Eve to disobey God, for which they are cast out of Paradise onto the Earth.

How do you feel about a recent ban in England covering all work pictures and knick-knacks of novelty pigs and "pig-related items" due to a Muslim workers complaint (this includes a novelty tissue box with Winnie the Pooh and Piglet on the exterior)?
I find it odd that England would agree to such a thing. And whoever complained about this in the first place is an idiot. Why should they expect a non-Islamic country to care if there are pictures of pigs in the workplace? What if the Hindus started complaining about people who eat beef at work? Will England ban meat from the workplace?

And now that i really think about it, there is no prohibition in Islam of pictures of pigs, or, so far as i know, even keeping pigs as pets. So whoever complained about it is doubly an idiot.

Mustafa Kamal? is that Ataturk? if so How Do modern day Turks reconcile the fact that he is a national hero with the fact that he is a religous traitor
Yeah, same guy.

Turkey is one of the most nationalistic countries with a sizeable Muslim population. They praise Ataturk as a founder or some other such idea (I'm not entirely versed on the reasons) despite the fact that he agreed to disband the Islamic State in order to do it.

And really, as a general rule, Turkey is a *very* poor indicator of what Islam should be, and often is, in other parts of the world.
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[wordcross]

In re the whole gay thing, here's a hypothetical: Suppose science proved that there was a gene or whatever that caused a man to be attracted to others in the manner that women are (I.E. gay), what would your position be then?

Skepticism, most likely, but outside of that, I couldn't say. It would obviously be difficult to reconcile belief with this "proof" so it would take a lot of personal reflection on what's what.

Ask me if it actually happens (which it won't)
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[Guest]

[dethwing]

What sort of reasons do you have for believing in God and/or the Qu'ran?(Sorry if I have mispelled it)
Or if you prefer to keep things abstract instead of personal, what are the "accepted" reasons for believing in the Qu'ran and God?

Aside from simply "not accepting it" based on your Islamic beliefs, what sort of reasons do you have for not believing in the Bible?

Perhaps this would be better suited for your hot seat, but I figured I would have a go at them here.

[wordcross]

[Chuck]

They didn't know they weren't supposed to eat the apple. After God told them not to, one of His creations came to them and said it was all right to do so. Since God had never lied to them they wouldn't know what a lie was and would accept everything that was told to them as true. They couldn't possibly know that it was wrong.

[Jedo the Jedi]

cp: If those two posts were in the Christianity thread? Hmm... Well, I'm not sure. God presents in Leviticus 18 all kinds of immoral sexual practices, and homosexuality was punished in Soddam and Ghommorah, but seeing as God's forgiving nature, I'm not really sure. They would certainly have to be repentant if they acted upon it (or "commited adultery in their minds"), but when this repenting would have to happen is up in the air. Well... *grrr*

I had a thought the other day. God cannot tolerate sin, so there is obviously no sin in heaven. Sin, is an earthly pleasure that people enjoy and must love to a certain extent. Like Jesus said, no man can serve two masters, so if homosexuals love homosexuality so much that they don't have room for God and choose it over God, then I don't think they will go to heaven. However, if when the time comes to choose between the two (God or their sin), I think that because of Jesus' sacrifice, they can choose God over that sin (homosexuality in this case). Understand what I'm saying?

Sorry for using up the Islam thread, word.

[Jedo the Jedi]

word, if you are wrong about Islam and I am correct about Christianity and you are given the choice to enter heaven (which I believe you are anyway), would you take it despite knowing that you were wrong? (Not meant to be plagarizing.)

[wordcross]

Dethwing: I haven't forgotten you. I'm thinking

If you are wrong about Islam and I am correct about Christianity and you are given the choice to enter heaven (which I believe you are anyway), would you take it despite knowing that you were wrong? (Not meant to be plagarizing.)
You mean patronizing, not plagiarizing

And of course i'd choose heaven. No one would willingly choose to go to hell when faced with the reality of that torment.

The question is, of course, merely hypothetical
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[Jedo the Jedi]

Please excuse my brain fart. It's been a long, busy day. (Set construction is a bear!) And yes, hypothetical.

[extro…]

Was looking at the new Iraqi constitution. Question: Do the following provisions conflict with each other?

[wordcross]

I wouldn't say that they conflict with each other, no.

However, depending on their definition of "principles of Democracy", A and B might conflict. And I'm willing to bet that, when all is said and done, A and C are likely to conflict.
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[Samadhi]

Under Islamic laws are Christians allowed to practice their religion in public?
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[wordcross]

depends. They're allowed to have churches and chapels and whatnot, which is a sort of public, but I'm not so sure they'd be allowed to have stuff going on at a big outdoor public place, like the town square or whatever. Individually, a person would be allowed to do whatever they needed according to his religion, so long as it wasn't illegal. And as long as their not publicly preaching.
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[Samadhi]

Well that would kind of invalidate the "Iraqis are equal before the law without discrimination based on gender, race, ethnicity, origin, color, religion, creed, belief or opinion, or economic and social status." Part
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[wordcross*]

yes, yes it would. I wasn't paying enough attention to that, thanks

[Agamemnon]

[dethwing]

Still thinking?

[wordcross]

yeah, sorta. I'm now just procrastinating

I'm hoping to get around to answering it this evening. stay tuned
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[extro...]

[Samadhi]

[The Red Shadow]

This is going to sound bad, but I've been dealing with a problem with my sexual orientation over the past several years. I'm in my lates teens now, and I'm from a family with a Baptist leaning (in fact, my grandfather was a Baptist preacher). I think the earliest indication of my problem, although I didn't recongnize it as such at the time, was when I was only five. So I really don't know how I got to be the way I was, or if it was due to something I chose, but I find that unlikely. At any rate, I was extremly depressed and at the end of my rope, I hated the way I was but I didn't think I could change. I resisted my temptations very strongly but that never helped. But finally, I told my dad, and he was very helpful. It turns out, he'd known a man who had been a homosexual but had been instantly changed when he listened to God telling him to confess his problem to his employers at the Mission Board (imagine that, he was a missionary at the time!).

So Dad got me to a Christian psychologist who told me that it wasn't my fault I was the way I was, but also that I didn't have to stay that way. As it turns out, sexuality is a learned behavior. Somewhere in my childhood I had learned to attatch my attraction to something other than the opposite gender, and it had become reinforced before I knew what it was. But, it can also be changed. I have been working on changing for about two years now, I think. I'm not quite thru, but I'm most of the way. But it was a real surprize to hear that sexuality isn't inborn. It works by association.

Anyway, I think it's terrible that some people think they have to be stuck being homosexual and are trying to defend themselves. I'm sure it's much less desirable than normal relations, and of course it does no good in having a family. I think the more kids who have the same sort of situation as me, and can be helped instead of indoctrinated into becoming a "victimized minority", the better.

So I hope that clears things up a bit. As for it being a sin, I'm not sure, but it doesn't really matter to me b/c I'd rather be straight than not and it seems like any homosexual who is more worried about happiness in life than "gay pride" would agree.

[Samadhi]

1: I think this belongs in the Christianity thread..
2: It's a good thing to know that heterosexuals could be homos if they just wanted to
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[LGB]

Red Shadow. It sounds like a terrible situation you are in. I have every sympathy for you. In my job, I often have to give advice to people like yourself, albeit not from a religous perspective. I meet many young men who wish to turn form homosexuality to hetrosexuality. The advice I usually give is to make the transition gradually. Start by making small changes in your sexual behaviour in terms of orientation. A good start is to start masturbating with your other hand. This helps your mind to adjust to stimulus from 'the other side'. Gradually choose the things men and women have in common, and learn to appreciate them equally in both sexes, eyes or bottoms for example, even flat chested girls. Eventually when you feel ready to have sex with a girl, try anal sex first, this will help you to feel more 'at home' with inter-sex sex.

I hope this will help you with your self-improvement and that you will be cured soon.

[The Red Shadow]

Samadhi: I think you are probably right about this belonging in the Christianity thread. However, the discussion there has moved away from that topic, if it did come up.
I assume you meant to say "homo's can become hetero's" but I do think it can go both ways.

LGB: Fortunately, my experience hasn't been as bad as the one you described, but thanks for the sympathy anyway. (The worst part for me, though, was before I knew it was possible to change. If there's anything that will give you low self-esteem problems, I think that's it.) I suppose I ought to have clarified, but I didn't want to if I didn't have to: I was attracted to a class of inanimate objects, which are not possible to 'have relations with' if you see what I mean. But I did have to use a gradual process of changing what I associated attractiveness with.

[Hero]

[wordcross]

[Samadhi]

word is correct.
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[UnheardVoice]

[UnheardVoice]

P.S.

Red Shadow, you're more than welcome to reintroduce the homosexuality item into the Christianity thread. Right now this item is between a series of other topics, but it's there.

P.P.S.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[Samadhi]

UV: Nicely said.
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