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Courk
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject: 1 |
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From what I understand, Guy Fawkes tried to blow up Parliament, yet there's a night to celebrate this? I don't understand, and I've been trying to make sense of it, but most of the things I've found don't mention why he's celebrated for his plot.
Edit: And a Merry Guy Fawkes Night!
Last edited by Courk on Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mith
Pitbull of Truth
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject: 2 |
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I *think* it's more to celebrate that he failed.
I'd read about it, but I can't think for all the bloody fireworks going off outside my window. |
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Courk
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:31 pm Post subject: 3 |
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| That kind of makes sense, but it almost seems like us calling July 4 "King George III Day." |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:17 pm Post subject: 4 |
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| Well, in Aussieland it was always called "Empire Night", though we don't celebrate it anymore, it was more of a colonial hangover. |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject: 5 |
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| *afterthough, probably inaccurate* Could it be possible it's only called Guy Fawkes night in America? |
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Courk
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: 6 |
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| Umm... we don't celebrate it. My calendar says "Bonfire Night, U.K." Beyond that, I would have had no idea that there was even a holiday on the other side of the Atlantic. |
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Mackay
Saviour of Spiders
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:08 am Post subject: 7 |
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| Really? I guess it's just a Limey thing then. *crosses Guy Fawkes day off List Of American Stuff To Remember* |
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Talitha
the Judge!
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:12 am Post subject: 8 |
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We celebrate it here too, and it's called Guy Fawkes. Much bigger deal here than Halloween. Cos yeah, we're still British spawn and haven't sold our soul to America yet  |
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Mr Stoofer
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: 9 |
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This is an English perspective.
November 5th is more commonly referred to as "Bonfire Night" than Guy Fawkes Night. But both names are used. It celebrates the failure of the "Gunpowder Plot" in which Fawkes and co attempted to blow up Parliament. Fireworks are set off and effigies of Guy Fawkes are burned on large bonfires.
It is more religious in origin than many people seem to realise. The Gunpowder Plot was a plan by Catholics to kill the Protestant King and replace him with a Catholic King. it was an attempt to undo the English Reformation and return the country to Catholicism. Bonfire Night is a celebration of freedom from the tyranny that the British people associated with Papal (ie Catholic) rule.
This is not something that many people think or even know about. But the anti-Catholic nature of Bonfire Night can be sen here and there. In Lewes (a small town on the South Coast of England), Bonfire Night is a huge deal; there is a big parade; there are Societies devoted entirely to preparing for each year's parade; and instead of burning Guy Fawkes, they burn effigies of the Pope!
But generally there are no religious overtones to the celebration. It is just an excuse to watch fireworks, and everyone of all religions and none get equally involved, oblivious of the history of the event. |
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Kd
Mei Li De Hua
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:17 am Post subject: 10 |
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What he said. Also, fireworks can't legally be sold all year round here (last time I checked, anyway) so that's why there's such a huge amount of them going off in a short space of time, and why sometimes you see a random one go off in February, or something.  _________________ Guess who's back, back again, Kd's back, tell a friend. |
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mith
Pitbull of Truth
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: 11 |
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| Quote: |
| In Lewes (a small town on the South Coast of England) |
Lewes isn't far from here; my bit of the university is actually on Lewes road. I could've gone... but I stayed in and nanoed instead.
I never see fireworks in America except the 4th. Kd's right, the brits seem to set them off at any excuse in the winter.  |
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Agamemnon
Daedalian Member
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Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: 12 |
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| Quote: |
| It is more religious in origin than many people seem to realise. The Gunpowder Plot was a plan by Catholics to kill the Protestant King and replace him with a Catholic King |
Catholic QUEEN actually
They would have kidnapped King James's daughter Princess Elizabeth, had the plot succeeded, ready to install her as a puppet queen. |
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Agamemnon
Daedalian Member
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Mr. Stoofer
Guest
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: 14 |
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| Agamemnon wrote: |
Catholic QUEEN actually
They would have kidnapped King James's daughter Princess Elizabeth, had the plot succeeded, ready to install her as a puppet queen. |
Quite right. |
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject: 15 |
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| Talitha wrote: |
We celebrate it here too, and it's called Guy Fawkes. Much bigger deal here than Halloween. Cos yeah, we're still British spawn and haven't sold our soul to America yet  |
Hallowe'en isn't American, it's Irish.
Also, the bonfire is used to burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes and people are asked to contribute to the bonfire in order to demonstrate their allegiance to the protestant monarchy. |
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Ctorj
Did I spell that right?
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: 16 |
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| Jack_Ian wrote: |
| Talitha wrote: |
We celebrate it here too, and it's called Guy Fawkes. Much bigger deal here than Halloween. Cos yeah, we're still British spawn and haven't sold our soul to America yet  |
Hallowe'en isn't American, it's Irish.
Also, the bonfire is used to burn an effigy of Guy Fawkes and people are asked to contribute to the bonfire in order to demonstrate their allegiance to the protestant monarchy. |
Actually, Halloween is Catholic. (Which is probably the same thing as Irish. ) It was originally called All Hallow's Eve for the Eve of All Saint's Day the next day. Scary pumpkins were carved out and put on door steps in the hopes of warding off evil spirits. Also connected to All Souls Day which is the next day after All Saints Day. |
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: 17 |
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| Ctorj wrote: |
| Jack_Ian wrote: |
| Talitha wrote: |
We celebrate it here too, and it's called Guy Fawkes. Much bigger deal here than Halloween. Cos yeah, we're still British spawn and haven't sold our soul to America yet  |
Hallowe'en isn't American, it's Irish.. |
Actually, Halloween is Catholic. |
It's older than that I'm afraid.
It's the Celtic pagan feast "Samhain".
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| With Christianization, the festival in November (not the Roman festival in May) became All Hallows' Day on November 1st followed by All Souls' Day, on November 2nd, after which the night of October 31 was called All Hallow's Eve, and the remnants festival dedicated to the dead eventually morphed into the secular holiday known as Halloween. |
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Ctorj
Did I spell that right?
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Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: 18 |
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One could argue that Samhain, however, and Halloween are not the same. Bonfires are not associated with Halloween in America. Trick or treating and pumpkins are, but not bonfires.
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| Bonfires played a large part in the festivities. |
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| Irish, Scots and other immigrants brought older versions of the tradition to North America in the 19th century. Most other Western countries have embraced Halloween as a part of American pop culture in the late 20th century. |
And by Halloween, I speak of the version as it is today, not the old way.
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| Halloween is also called Pooky Night in some parts of Ireland, presumably named after the púca, a mischievous spirit. |
This explains a lot about our friend, Pooky. |
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