Ask about Islam

[LGB*]

You mean you think th Christian Right in the USA are moderate? or the rise is moderate

[groza528]

I think the Christian right are moderate, particularly in comparison to the Muslim protesters. Sorry, that was very ambiguous.

[The Ragin' South Asian]

Batman vs. al Qaida

[Samadhi]

On a side note, one might notice that the source for that is Aljazeera. I think that most Westerners have a negative opinion about Al. I don't agree with that, and I think it's a symptom of 'shooting the messenger'
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[LGB*]

For a long time I was a big follower of AlJazeerau. But after the big commercial success of 'Moonlighting' it all seemed to go to his head. The subsequent fall back in to smi-oscurity has left him ver bitter. I wouldn't believe anything he said now

[wordcross]

him?
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[LGB*]

I assumed it was a him, Was she a her?? Possible, the voice was very high.

[wordcross]

Was he not talking about the news agency? I didn't think it was an individual. If it is, I've been missing something.
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[ogm*]

Yes, you are missing a bad joke.
Al Jarreau sang the theme music for the '80s TV show Moonlighting.

[wordcross]

oh. makes more sense now, thanks
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[Nsof]

I have heard somewhere that
a) The Koran states that Israel (or maybe Canaan) belongs to the Jews
b) Jerusalem is only mentioned in the Koran two times and in neither it is a holly place for Muslims
Is this true?
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Will sell this place for beer

[wordcross]

I know the second fact is untrue, even if spun way out of proportion. The first fact i could *maybe* see having some basis, although it is out of context if there is.

Off the top of my head, in negation of the second "fact", Muslims, during the time of Mohammad, originally prayed while facing Jerusalem, specifically Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa, which is a mosque right next to the "Dome of the Rock." This changed later when the Muslims had migrated to Medina (then called Yathrib) and Mohammad asked God if they could change the "Qibla" (direction of prayer) from Jerusalem to Mecca, specifically the Ka'ba.

Also coming to mind is the story of Isra' and Miraj, which is the journey of Mohammad from Mecca to Jerusalem, then his ascension to the Heavens, and return in one night. He was sped to Jerusalem from Mecca, where he visited Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa, the ascended from a stone (now inside the "Dome of the Rock" hence the name) into a journey through Heaven where he met several past prophets and talked to God himself.

So yes, Jerusalem is indeed mentioned in the Qur'an more than twice, these two examples are only two of the most significant. There are three mosques in the world that are commonly labeled as the 3 most significant. the first is the Ka'ba in Mecca, where the pilgrimage is made each year. The second is the Prophet's Mosque in Medina, where Mohammad started the Islamic State, and the third is Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa, in Jerusalem.

As for the first point, i can't really "negate" it because nowhere does it say "Jerusalem doesn't belong to the Jews" and I'm not positive that it says "Jerusalem belongs to the Muslims" or any such-like thing. I am relatively certain is does not, in fact, say "Jerusalem belongs to the Jews" either. It's not so much a question of ownership as it is availability. (I don't expect the Palestinians would usually agree with me, though.)
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[Nsof]

Thanks,
I heard this on the radio but since its an israely station i thought i'd check it. The radio guy mentioned the specific place (where isarel belongs to the jews) in the Koran but i couldnt remember it .
So anyway the Bible and Koran cant solve the current conflict. I guess in this context it would have been better had averyone been agnostic.
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Will sell this place for beer

[cherob*]

Hi,
My fiance and I are planning on eloping as our family does not approve of our union, because my fiance is not of the same race as I. What are the requirements for a legitimate muslim wedding, given that i wont have any relatives attending and that i only have one muslim friend who wont be able to make the wedding either as she will be out of the country. What is the marriage procedure? Please, I need some help!

Thanks

[wordcross]

why do you need to know the Muslim wedding procedure? I would assume it is because one of you is Muslim, and if so, would that person not have other sources besides a stranger on a bulletin board?

Otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd bother.
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[Aga*]

What are your views on the Pope's views concerning the Muslims in the past?
Do you agree that he should publicly apologise?
Were YOU offended?

[wordcross]

What are your views on the Pope's views concerning the Muslims in the past?
I'm not entirely sure what the Pope's views *are* on the matter. In regards to his speech, he certainly seemed to imply that the only differences between Islam and Christianity were that Islam brought more violence and that it was spread by the sword.

I don't think he was completely doing it maliciously (the english translation, at least, seemed to emphasize different points, using these "assumptions" as bases for those points.) I don't think much of his opinion of Islam, though. Using the assumptions shows a lack of regard, i think.

Do you agree that he should publicly apologise?
I don't think he should be forced to. If he doesn't mean it, why make him? If he does mean it, he would apologise anyway, yes?

Were YOU offended?
No. I find it unfortunate that the leader of the Catholic faith would be so casual in his lack of regard, but i wasn't offended. Then again, as i think i've mentioned before, it takes quite a bit to offend me personally.

And someone irl asked me this question, so i'll answer it too:

What do you think about all of the violence (specifically the bombing of a Church) in response to the Pope's statements?
The same thing i think about all violence in response to words and pictures: it's unnecessary and completely unjustified. It is even more unfortunate that there are such extremists who feel that doing harm to uninvolved persons is some sort of duty upon them. But it happens every time, and to be surprised by it by now is somewhat odd. Dismayed, angry, confused, sure, but not surprised.
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[casinopete]

[worm]

anyone have a link to the entire speech rather than snippets?

[wordcross]

[Jack_Ian]

[wordcross]

My apologies for missing the attribution for the second quote. It softens my dislike of the way the Pope approached his speech, but I still think he would have been better off making some qualifying statements regarding those quotes.
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[casinopete]

Alright. I thought it was only fair to assume that you'd read the speech before criticizing it. Apparently that was not the case. Yes, this is a bit snarky, but criticizing something you hadn't read deserves pretty much exactly that response.

The speech was not about Holy War. The speech was not about Islam. The quotation people are getting upset about is taken parsecs out of context.

The speech was about Reason and Theology, specifically on movements that attempt to dehellanize Christianity. As part of this speech, understandably, he wanted to give an example of the "hellenist" God and purely transcendent (uncategorizable) God.

To this end, he quoted Manuel II Paleologus view: "Not to act reasonably, not to act with logos, is contrary to the nature of God." (yes, there were plenty of quotations that somehow go unmentioned because they don't fuel the outrage).

Your own "second quotation" is firmly on this topic, too. The Muslim view of God expressed by Ibn Hazn, via Theodore Khoury, is that God is not limited by reason. This would be the example of the transcendent-God view.

It does not "run with the theme of Muslim conversion being by the sword." I can't imagine the mental gymnastics required to go from "the Muslim God is beyond rationality" to "the Muslims only convert by the sword." You are stretching.

[wordcross]

Alright, just to be sure i wasn't missing anything really important, i read the entire text (a translation, posted by the BBC here.)

I don't think i was missing much. The parts left out of the article really had little bearing on the question of his quotes about Islam. Furthermore, the full reading has done nothing to change my opinion on the matter.

[casinopete]

[wordcross]

You seem to be under the impression that I believe that the Pope's sole purpose in this speech was attacking Islam. I don't believe that, nor do i think he was attacking Islam at all. I recognize and have stated the fact that the vast majority of his speech had nothing at all to do with the minute portion that is causing such controversy. All I've said is that I think he made some poor decisions in his manner of speaking, which seemed to me to indicate a rather low opinion if Islam overall.

[casinopete]

[wordcross]

[Jack_Ian]

In the Pope's favour, "with a startling brusqueness" is not a very good translation of "uns überraschend schroffer Form". Rather it means something more like, "which to us now seems surprisingly harsh".

The Pope is an intellectual, with a God complex, living in an ivory tower.
He was addressing German intellectuals in Germany where there is a large Turkish Islamic contingent.

I believe he chose to shine the spotlight deliberately on Islam in order to point out what he sees as its failings. The same failings which were once part of Christian doctrine before they saw the error of their ways (resulting in them doing things such as giving the Inquisition a makeover, by renaming it to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and sweeping Conversion by Torture under the rug).

Anyway, he was just plain wrong. He would have done better to shine a light on Christianity's murky past and then perhaps draw parallels with Islamic radicals (along with abortion clinic bombers) and done us all a favour.

Believing that his is the one true church and that all others are wrong is understandable. After all he is the Pope. What to me is "unforgivable" is that he turns a blind eye to the failings of his own church while arrogantly lofting stones from on high at the failings of Islam, gays, contraception, women, etc.

"Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye?"
"Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone"
He would do well to read his Bible.

BTW For anyone looking for a complete apology, I wouldn't hold your breath.
October 31, 1992: The Catholic Church begs pardon for placing Galileo Galilei under life-long house arrest in 1633.

[Aarondalf]

Heh, I firmly believe there is nobody who would "do well to read the bible". Christians make me cry. Catholics make me weep.

[Antrax]

One day, I'll understand where your arrogance comes from. It has to be based on SOMETHING, but what?
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[extro...*]

Come on, haven't you seen the Bible's cover?

[GH]

[Courk]

I read today that each Islamic month starts when the new moon is seen. The article went on to say that, at least in the local area, Ramadan started on Friday. I have a few questions related to this:

1. This one might be a bit silly, but does someone actually have to see that it's a new moon, or do you just go by the phases that are printed on calendars? I would have assumed the latter, but the way the article was worded made the new moon seem variable.

2. If the new moon is at least slightly variable, how do you know when Ramadan begins or ends? How do you know it begins on Friday and not Saturday or Thursday?

Also, I hope you have a happy Ramadan!

[wordcross]

well Ramadan technically didn't start on Friday, it started today (Saturday). There is the extended nightly prayers starting Friday night, but it isn't the first day of Ramadan.

and for the New Moon, it actually has to be sighted. There is some difference of opinion about using sighting from other parts of the country/world, but it does have to be sighted. It is pretty clearly demonstrated in the teachings of Muhammad that only a visual sighting of the moon the day after the new moon starts the new month. There are usually only two days that it could start, since the beginning of the previous month is known. Lunar months are either 29 or 30 days. This is why Ramadan comes 10-11 days earlier each solar year. Here in Raleigh and for much of the East Coast, Last night was overcast, so there wasn't an official moon sighting. They originally said we would start on Sunday. However, shortly thereafter we heard that there was a sighting in Houston, and it was decided that we would indeed start today.

Also, even though they're not supposed to, there are often countries/areas/communities that will start Ramadan based on Lunar calculations, rather than actual sighting, but their justifications are usually pretty flimsy.
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[Nsof]

[wordcross]

That question would work even if it were just Mars. And if such a thing were to happen, then yes i'd imagine that they'd have to either go by calculation or by following someone's sighting on Earth. This is far into the realm of speculation, though.
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[Courk]

That's what I got from the article. I would have felt silly had you just used a calendar and I was reading too much into it.

How does word spread about when you start? I mean, how did you, personally, find out there was a moon sighting in Houston?

[wordcross]

The Islamic Center here in Raleigh posted it on their Website ( www.islam1.org )
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[Courk]

Oh, duh. Internet.