Letter to Editor

[Pablo]

Here's a letter I just wrote to our newspaper... comments?

To the editor:

The war in Iraq isn't about terrorism or national security. It is not about democracy nor is it about liberating the Iraqi people. It's not about oil and it's not about freedom. It is simply about government contracts. Billions are being made and billionaires are being created as we pay companies like Halliburton and Parsons exhorbitant amounts of money to do whatever they are doing in Iraq. Of course, there is no way for the American people to know how much of this money is being used wisely or efficiently, or at all. Nor is there any easy way to know how much of it is "kicked back" to various republican campaign coffers, or Swiss bank accounts. This is corruption at its worst. This is not Enron stealing employees' life savings..... it's much worse than that. It's young men and women being maimed and killed so that others may profit. Anyone who still supports this war either doesn't understand it or is benefitting from it.

[Antrax]

I think there's some technical problem with the site -- the whole part that starts "I am basing this on..." in your post somehow fails to appears on my browser. I'll get to it next week, hopefully.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[MatthewV]

Antrax- our army issues "bullet proof" jackets made of PVC pipe ;-(

[Pablo]

[Pablo]

[raekuul]

Don't you mean $399,994?

[Pablo]

I forgot to carry the one.

[Lepton*]

That's a decent opinion piece, Pablo. Has it run?

[Pablo]

I just sent it in today, but I've had a high percentage of my letters published.... probably 3/4 of them. Usually takes a week or so for them to appear.

[Pablo]

Here's one of many articles on the subject:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/after/2003/0328advisors.htm

More:

http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/

[Naboo]

Good letter, Pablo. Nice, concise summary of what we're dealing with here.

[Samadhi]

While your assertion about Halliburton and corruption may be correct (I have no idea) that doesn't negate anything else happening. Classic false dilema fallacy.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Antrax]

I have no idea what Samadhi said.
In any case, critical thinking is not for others, it's for yourself. Unless you want to spend your life believing pink elephants and four-day days, it's good practice to end assertions you make with a short summary of the reasoning behind those assertions. I mean, what you're saying is terrible. You believe there are people up there who don't mind killing off thousands of innocent people just so someone else can make some money. If I believed that, I couldn't sleep at night. So, in order to believe such an outrageous thing, I'd insist I get some facts. And I'm not talking facts in the Michael Moore sense, I'm talking, you know, facts. Anything to base this on. Not coincidences or conjectures, just some evidence. I've been reading the Iraq debates on the GL for a long time, and the one thing that always seemed odd was that people were willing to believe incredible things with no evidence at all just because it made Bush look bad (sorry, with evidence like "a whole lot of people died in Iraq, so the invasion must have been poorly planned" and "there are still terrorist attacks, so the invasion must have been a bad idea to begin with"). I always assumed it's some American custom, but from what I saw, all those debates were doing was just convincing the already convinced and mocking everybody else until they shut up. Not my idead of productive. Isn't the idea in writing to the editor to try and persuade others to share your opinions?
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Gene Ray]

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If I tell a human that his 4-corner head (nose, 2 ears and back corner) has only a 1-corner face, the dumbass will say to me - "prove it". He knows not that his face is a corner.
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[Lepton*]

Antrax, I would say that the goal of writing to the editor is to share your opinion, rather than try to convince anyone else. Most editorial writers and readers are already quite firm in their beliefs.

[Antrax]

What's the point of sharing an unfounded opinion? What good does it do to anyone?
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Dragon Phoenix]

Most elections work that way IMHO.

[Pablo]

The government has the power to take my money, use it as they please, and classify whatever documents that might prove my case. So "proof" is probably not possible. What I believe is the sum total of the evidence I have observed and processed through the filters of my brain based on a lifetime of experience. As I said, I (for the moment) have the right to express that belief.

Many people read the newspaper and read the letters to the editor. Some have never considered that there might be a reason for this war beyond what the Liberal / Right Wing (take your pick) media tells them or what the politicians tell them. What I believe is the underlying reason this war goes on is not the mainstream belief. If a few people read my letter and say "Hmmm. I hadn't thought about that. I wonder if there's truth to it", I'll feel it was worthwhile. I don't expect that everyone who reads it will be influenced or changed, but someone will, and that's good enough for me. Occasionally, I read a letter and think, "Now there's a fresh viewpoint. I'll have to think about that."

My belief may be completely wrong, but it's rational. It makes logical sense. That doesn't make it true, but it's the only rational reason I can see for this war to continue under what I see as the circumstances... those being:

1. Things are getting worse over there for both the Iraqis (more unstable, worse infrastructure, more violence) and the U.S (more casualties).
2. It's polarizing the U.S. at home and costing a fortune.
3. It's turning the world against us.
4. It's damaging the republican party.

I would like to hear another rational reason that the administration is so hell bent on "staying the course". I think it is because so many of them are beholden to the major business interests that are profiting. Other theories?

[Samadhi]

[Samadhi]

Ok.

[Pablo]

My reason for mentioning damage to the republican party....

That's one more thing that makes the continuation of this war irrational. So I've yet to find a second rational reason, and I'm thinking "OK, we've been there long enough now that someone ought to be able to say something about what's been accomplished."

I mean, if we haven't accomplished anything by now, that could be argument enough that we should get the hell out and quit killing people. In fact, seems to me not only are we not accomplishing anything, but we're quite possibly making things worse.

So I'm still looking for another rational explanation of why we're there.

[Pablo]

John Murtha is a congressman from Pennsylvania. Here are his (military) credentials:

Congressman Murtha is so well-respected for his first-hand knowledge of military and defense issues that he has been a trusted adviser to presidents of both parties on military and defense issues and is one of the most effective advocates for the national defense in the country. He is ranking member and former chairman of the Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, a Vietnam combat veteran and a retired Marine Corps colonel with 37 years of service, a rare combination of experience that enables him to understand defense and military operations from every perspective.

He learned about military service from the bottom up, beginning as a raw recruit when he left Washington and Jefferson College in 1952 to join the Marines out of a growing sense of obligation to his country during the Korean War. There he earned the American Spirit Honor Medal, awarded to fewer than one in 10,000 recruits. He rose through the ranks to become a drill instructor at Parris Island and was selected for Officer Candidate School at Quantico, Virginia. He then was assigned to the Second Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. In 1959, Captain Murtha took command of the 34th Special Infantry Company, Marine Corps Reserves, in Johnstown. He remained in the Reserves after his discharge from active duty until he volunteered for Vietnam in 1966-67, receiving the Bronze Star with Combat "V", two Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. He remained in the Reserves until his retirement. This first-hand knowledge of military and defense issues has made him a trusted adviser to presidents of both parties and one of the most effective advocates for the national defense in Washington. At the request of Presidents and Speakers of the House, he served as chairman of delegations monitoring elections in the Philippines, El Salvador, Panama and Bosnia.

He was awarded the Navy Distinguished Service Medal by the Marine Corps Commandant when he retired from the Marines.


Here is what he says:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/pa12_murtha/2005_12_14_dear_coll_iraq.html

If you read his letter to congress, I would value your opinion on it.

[alphatango]

On one particular point, without reference to the rest of the discussion:

[austinap*]

[austinap*]

[Pablo]

[Pablo]

What I mean by "loosely scrutinized":


Of the 30 members of the Defense Policy Board, the government-appointed group that advises the Pentagon, at least nine have ties to companies that have won more than $76 billion in defense contracts in 2001 and 2002. Four members are registered lobbyists, one of whom represents two of the three largest defense contractors.

The board’s chairman, Richard Perle, resigned yesterday, March 27, 2003, amid allegations of conflicts of interest for his representation of companies with business before the Defense Department, although he will remain a member of the board. Eight of Perle’s colleagues on the board have ties to companies with significant contracts from the Pentagon.

Members of the board disclose their business interests annually to the Pentagon, but the disclosures are not available to the public. “The forms are filed with the Standards of Conduct Office which review the filings to make sure they are in compliance with government ethics,” Pentagon spokesman Maj. Ted Wadsworth told the Center for Public Integrity.

[Antrax]

[Pablo]

[Samadhi]

I just glanced at that (I'll read it more but I've got errands to run)

[Pablo]

An American boy who graduated high school in June 2002 was in Iraq by the beginning of 2003 and has served two tours there fighting for someone else's country. An Iraqi boy who graduated in June 2002, still isn't trained adequately to fight for his own country.

I'm dumbfounded that there's even a debate going on.

[Samadhi]

That's exactly the kind of argument that Antrax is looking for. Who wouldn't be convinced/change their mind after reading that?
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Leonidas]

[Pablo]

[Samadhi]

Fine, you're not interested in discussion. You don't believe you can convince anyone to your point of view because they're too stupid or evil or some other thing. Heaven forbid they're not you and don't know what you know.

Pablo, I don't agree with you.

Do you think I'm stupid? Do you think I don't care about the troops in Iraq? Do you think I'm some money grubbing callous con of a bitch?

These are the only possibilites you seem to allow, and frankly I'm offended. What makes you so hollier than thou? What makes you think you must be right and everyone else is wrong? Has it ever crossed your mind that you're not only wrong, but you're being a dick?

Your fanaticism really pisses me off.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Antrax]

[LGB*]

[Pablo]

[hey_herb]

I was listening to the radio on the way to work this morning. There was a reporter with a commander who "owns" covering the road to the airport in Baghdad, which is considered one of the most dangerous roads in the world at the moment. If fact, the commander had a cast on the arm he broke earlier in the week when an IED flipped his HumVee.

During the interview he was explaining how it was getting easier to cover the roads because he had more men because they don't go into residential areas anymore. He explained how he had 3 divisions of Iraqis who were now covering the residential areas and were doing a really good job.

He was explaining how the Iraqi forces were taking over more of the day to day operations which was freeing up his forces to focus more directly on the insurgency.

This was not a politician. This was a soldier in the field. And he was saying how it is getting better.

I have also talked with soldiers who were just getting home. They talked about how they were proud to be there and saw that they were making a difference in these people lives.

This is not a cut and dry issue. This is not just about making money. There are a lot of issues in play and to negate all of the good things that are happening there to make a stronger point about how dark and evil it is and how we shouldn't be there is propaganda at its finest.

I don't necessarily think we should have gone there in the first place. And yes, people have profitted from war since the dawn of time, there is nothing new about that, in fact, WWII got the U.S. out of the Great Depression. But I do not believe that is the main reason we went in, or the main reason we are still there.

Things are getting better in Iraq and the Iraqis are taking more responsibilities. I believe the goal is in sight and we will be able to start moving our soldiers out of their country soon.

Besides, China is actually paying for our war, and we need to bring our soldiers home before China decides to collect on the debt we are not readily capable of paying back. Thought I would end with a broad generalization of my own for cannon fodder.

[Samadhi]

Nicely said, except WWII did *not* get us out of the depression.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.