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Sessie
Saucy Chica
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 Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: 121 |
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FWIW, a friend of mine who just became a cop (actually, she's a lab tech, but she had to go through the same training) had to get pepper sprayed and tased. She said the effects of the pepper spray lasted for a couple days afterwards, whereas the tasing was over with once she was done being tased. She said it "really, really sucked for the 3 seconds they did it, but after that it was done."
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worm
unregistered
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: 122 |
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i figured most real cops go through it...i was just wondering if the campus pigs do.
i've never been tased before, but i have gotten a pretty bad shock...i don't remember anything for the second or two during and my legs were like jell-o for an hour or so. i'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been too hard to take me down  |
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: 123 |
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| Back on track with this classic. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: 124 |
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| Pablo wrote: |
| Samadhi wrote: |
| Basically the police in this situation fucked up because they were trying the Pablo solution. Which, surprise surprise, failed. |
Huh? I don't get this at all, but if it is a reference to Iraq, I guess I'd remind you that the "Pablo" solution has not been tried there. We're er, I mean, They're still working on the "Samadhi" solution.
If this was not a reference to Iraq, please explain. |
It's not a reference to Iraq.
Did you forget you posted this?:
| Quote: |
| Our attitude has become, "Why solve a problem peacefully when a violent option exists?" |
This was immediately after statements supporting the force used by the police. If this was just random chatter and had nothing to do with the incident at UCLA, then whatever.
But it seemed logical to conclude that you were making a comment about the officers' behaviour. In context, your comment seems to imply that the officers should have used peaceful means, AKA talking, to get the person to obey the rules. I decided to call this the Pablo solution. (you should have had a hint at this from my "And Pablo, give me a break." comment.)
The officers did talk (use the Pablo solution) for far too long. There are times when talking is appropriate and times when it is not. If someone is quite possibly in violation of a law (in this case, trespass) then the only conversation necessary is for you to tell them what they need to do to keep you from kicking them out/arresting them.
I hope that makes my point clear. As I said, it had nothing to do with Iraq. But in the library/Iraq context, the Pablo solution would be for the security forces and the police forces to flee and let the students manage the library themselves. I couldn't resist. |
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: 125 |
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I guess that's why they call this forun "Off Topic".  |
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: 126 |
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rewritten
Last edited by Pablo on Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: 127 |
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| Samadhi wrote: |
But it seemed logical to conclude that you were making a comment about the officers' behaviour. In context, your comment seems to imply that the officers should have used peaceful means, AKA talking, to get the person to obey the rules. |
And yes, I was making a comment about the officers' behavior, and also about those here who condone it. We (our society) seems to enjoy the use of brutality whenever there is an excuse. "Force" would be physically removing him without harming him or inflicting unnecessary pain. This was beyond "force". It was purely brutality and all it did was appeal to the basest instincts of people.
Again, I'm not opposed to force. Ask my kids. I had no reservation in physically restraining them, or swatting them when that was what it took. There was a reason. They needed to know I was in control. They needed to know there was a limit. They didn't need to know that I was willing to inflict pain beyond what the situation called for. Had they threatened me or their mom with physical harm, I'd have done whatever was necessary. This UCLA incident was brutality for the sake of brutality. Saying he got "educated" in the process, to me, sounds like talk of ignorant trailer trash. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: 128 |
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Point.
They didn't know what they were doing. A tazer is used to subdue someone so you can put cuffs on them or whatever. Instead they were treating it as a means of coercion. Who trained these guys? OH. Right. It's LA. Nevermind. They're probably more well versed on how to comfort transgenders than how to deal with criminals.
If they new what they were doing the guy would have been out of the library with minimal force in minimal time. And at most one taze would have been necessary. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: 129 |
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I used to be a bouncer at a bar called the Wild Blue. I was the guy that "talked to" people. I was the peacemaker. I'd step in when diplomacy could mean something. This was because people tend to listen to a big bouncer more often than they will listen to a small bouncer.
But when I failed, Tim was the enforcer. He was maybe 5'6" so he never made the initial contact....unless they knew him (because then they would respect him). I was no slouch (2 kyus short of black) but my style was harsh. If I had to enforce, it would be a brawl. But Tim knew aikido and soft styles like that. He was like a tazer. He'd put a lock or hold on some guy that would completely subdue him.
Then they're out. That's what I missed. You don't subdue someone and then *ask* them to do what you want. You subdue them because they won't do what you want. So...subdue, and remove.
I can't believe I missed that. |
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: 130 |
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In the UCLA situation, ask yourself this question:
Had they NOT had tasers at all, how would this situation have played out?
Would it have erupted into a riot?
Would anyone have been hurt?
Would it have made the morning newspaper or the evening TV news?
Likely, he would have been escorted out one way or the other without serious incident, like many other similar situations go each day, and no one ever hears about them. If you accept this likelihood, you have to admit the tasers were an abuse of power.
I'm not saying the officers shouldn't have them. Just that I see no reason they were used here. |
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Death Mage
Raving Lunatic
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: 131 |
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If Tasers weren't used, but he had still refused to go, gone limp when they tried to drag him out? Out would have come the clubs. And you think that's better, Pablo?
Face it, Tasers ARE the non-violent solution. They are called STUN guns for a reason. They are very effective, and they don't do lasting harm. So why don't YOU tell us, oh great and wise Pablo, what YOU think should have happened to the student who refused to show ID, refused to leave (you can see on the video, even when he's yelling "I agreed to go!" he refuses to leave, he goes limp when they try to drag him out, he's NOT leaving willingly), and who started to try to incite others against the police.
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: 132 |
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| Samadhi wrote: |
I used to be a bouncer at a bar called the Wild Blue. I was the guy that "talked to" people. I was the peacemaker. I'd step in when diplomacy could mean something. This was because people tend to listen to a big bouncer more often than they will listen to a small bouncer.
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I'm relatively sure you could have removed this guy. Chances are he'd have taken one look at you and bolted. If not, you could have picked him up with one arm and had him out of there in no time. I don't think you'd have needed your 5'6" buddy (or a taser). In fact, wouldn't you have felt a bit wimpish in this case needing a taser? These cops probably weren't as intimidating a physical presence as you, but there were more of them. And they had reinforcements available if they needed them.
In my day, we never had tasers. We handled them the old fashioned way. We cracked their skull with a club. |
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Quailman
His Postmajesty
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject: 133 |
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| The audio wasn't very clear. I had to turn it way up, but I could make out that the guy was yelling, "Come see the violence inherent in the system! Come see the violence inherent in the system!" |
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wordcross
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: 134 |
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| Death Mage wrote: |
| If Tasers weren't used, but he had still refused to go, gone limp when they tried to drag him out? Out would have come the clubs. And you think that's better, Pablo? |
Dragging a limp body out the door isn't terribly difficult, especially if you have two people doing it. I see no reason they should have needed clubs for that. If you beat on him with clubs, it more likely that he'll fall limp anyway, what with the pain and all.
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: 135 |
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| Death Mage wrote: |
| So why don't YOU tell us, oh great and wise Pablo, what YOU think should have happened to the student who refused to show ID. |
I've engaged at this level in the past and I really didn't enjoy it very much. If you want to hurl insults, don't expect a response. If you want a dialogue, it will have to be at a little higher level to include me. |
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Death Mage
Raving Lunatic
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: 136 |
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Ah, the infamous "I don't have an answer, but I'm going to complain about every answer that anyone else gives" ploy.
Pablo, you've just become COMPLETELY irrelevant for that conversation. Your opinion is now worth less than the crap I scrape off the bottom of my shoe. Just thought you should know.
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Jack_Ian
Big Endian
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: 137 |
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Don't hold back DM.
Tell him what you really think...
Any chance of moving this discussion to another topic? |
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Trojan Horse
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: 138 |
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I apologize. I didn't think that my posting that particular video would hijack the entire thread. Maybe I should start a new thread for discussion of what happened.
Meanwhile, I'm gonna follow Jack's lead and try to get this thread back on track. Here's a video of a contestant on The Price Is Right trying to win a car playing the Ten Chances game. You gotta see this one to believe it. |
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Pigboy*
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: 139 |
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| What an idiot! Taze him! |
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Lucresia
Sheds Titles
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: 140 |
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hahaha. I watched the price is right clip..it was so hilarious..I was laughing so hard that the guy in the cubical next to me came over to see the clip.
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"And All anybody knows, is you're not like them" -Elliott Smith |
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Courk*
Guest
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Lepton*
Guest
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wordcross
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: 143 |
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Al Kyder, not Al Quida
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pete d
Daedalian Member
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Travis*
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:17 am Post subject: 145 |
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I think at one point the kid was tased while handcuffed. I don't think the police have the right to dole out punishment and I think they did (from what I could gather).
That being said, the student was an idiot and a spoiled acting one. That was not "his library" at least without the proper identification to prove it.
In other words, he deserved to be tased but should not have been. It might have been fun to tase the kid.
But it was still wrong. The student should have been dragged away. At least after he received the second tasing. Also to be fair to the police, they do need opportunities to try their new weapons. This means that they need to use them as often as possible. This way their function becomes so familiar as to become natural.
This comfort and taser handling ease could save the officers life in time of future confrontation, from wife or other assailant. |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: 146 |
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| Quailman wrote: |
| The audio wasn't very clear. I had to turn it way up, but I could make out that the guy was yelling, "Come see the violence inherent in the system! Come see the violence inherent in the system!" |
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Samadhi
+1
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: 147 |
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| Pablo: I've analyzed one of your earlier statements and determined that the most physical violence you've endured is burping your kids. |
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Pigboy*
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: 148 |
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| Ah yes, I always loved the high level of intellectual repartee what goes on on this site. Well said Sam, that was worthy of Oscar Wilde or Arnie. |
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: 149 |
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| Samadhi wrote: |
| Pablo: I've analyzed one of your earlier statements and determined that the most physical violence you've endured is burping your kids. |
When our son was around 11 or 12, he tried to hit his mom. He actually threw a punch in anger while I was in the room. He was on the floor before he knew what hit him. I was captain of my wrestling team in High School and it all came back to me in that moment. I had him completely immobilized and told him he wasn't getting up or for that matter, moving until he promised he'd never do that again, and apologized in a way that I could believe. We were in that position almost a half hour until he calmed down and complied. I didn't hurt him. I didn't brutalize him. I controlled him and I dominated him. I was the man and he was the boy. There were no scars and no resentment. There were no headlined the next day about "Eugene man tases son".... ok, so tasers weren't invented yet, but you get my point.
Also, I was suspended for 3 days my senior year in High School for beating the crap out of some kid who picked a fight with me on school property. I broke several of his teeth with my fist and the ones that were still intact were sticking all the way through his lower lip. My only options were to kick his ass or to get beat up and humiliated in front of a hundred onlookers or so. You guys have the wrong idea about me. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: 150 |
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| I'm glad this thread has turned into a penis measuring contest. |
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Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: 151 |
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That's not what that was about, as I'm sure Samadhi realizes, and you'd probably realize it too if you were really paying attention. Samadhi, and possibly others might be under the impression that I don't understand the "use of force" because I've never personally experienced it. I was trying to illustrate that I have been in situations where force was used. In case you don't know, I'll be 61 years old in January. I'm somewhat beyond such things as measuring a man's worth by whom he can "beat up".
Now, if you have a problem with any of this, maybe we can take it outside and "settle it" there.  |
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GH
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: 152 |
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| LordKinbote wrote: |
| I'm glad this thread has turned into a penis measuring contest. |
No YouTube link? Lame. |
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: 153 |
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| GH wrote: |
| LordKinbote wrote: |
| I'm glad this thread has turned into a penis measuring contest. |
No YouTube link? Lame. |
Sorry, "penis measuring contest" returned 0 hits.
However, here's something I saw yesterday.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=d9UwUZIuPH0 |
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Courk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: 154 |
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| Aww! Cute and sad! He put his little wings out -- so adorable! |
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Lepton
1:41+ Arse Scratcher
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| Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: 155 |
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| What a tragic statement about life. And what beautiful euphonium. |
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jesternl*
Guest
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jesternl*
Guest
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wordcross
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: 158 |
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er.. that's the same link... ?
_________________
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
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Death Mage
Raving Lunatic
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: 159 |
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It is faked. Air bag censors need more than single quick contact point to go off, from what I've heard. BTW, that's a repost if a much older YouTube video. Why do so many people keep uploading the same shit, especially when it clearly shows up as a duplicate in the "similar videos" thing?
_________________
* These senseless ramblings brought to you by Insanity™. If you just can't figure the dang thing out, it must be Insanity™.
[YOUR AD HERE!] |
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pete d
Daedalian Member
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