TOP GL'ER VEGAS - Alas, we knew it well....

[MNOWAX]

HEY! i'm half done!
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[xalolo]

For what its worth, I am away from now until Monday at Origins, so if the team challenge starts, please keep that in mind!

[MNOWAX]

the things are going, it probably wont start till Monday anyway.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Persona]

Since the next section is group work, I should mention that I'm likely to be out of Internet contact from July 4-10.

[Undercover Monk]

Thats Ok the way things are going we will never get the judging done. :glares at his fellow judges: Slackers
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[LordKinbote]

Bump?

[grz*]

Sorry, I think this one is my fault. I'm done except for one puzzle... I cannot find the thread that jbvntx's puzzle is based on, so I'm not sure how to grade the theme category. Anyone have a link?

[jbvntx]

It's in Visitor Games, around page 14, in a thread called ...

"Regurgitate: Where have I seen THAT before?"

derived from the game in the thread that's called "oobaT" (Taboo backwards).

jbvntx.
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jbv

[MNOWAX]

For once its not me!
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Undercover Monk]

judging completed and winner picked I assume MNOWAX will post the results. Sorry I had to be THAT guy.
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[MNOWAX]

Well, it seems we all came to a consensus.

LordKinbote, You have Won the challenge, and have Immunity from Elimination this round!

This Challenge is the dreaded TEAM Challenge.

Team ODD:Jbvntx, Zag, Projectyl

Team EVEN:LordKinbote, Xalolo, Persona

This challenge is based off of the classic Top Chef challenge: Restaurant Wars. Your task is to jointly create a puzzle based on the restaurant business. Do your best, because the Judges won't be the only ones looking at your puzzles. There will be a poll set up for one week, and the winning team of the poll will have a Major advantage in the next Quickfire.

When you are done with the puzzle, each member of the team will write a synopsis of the other two members and rate on a scale of 1-10 their performance as working on the puzzle and as a team. This will help the final judging. We will take all points in, but we will have the final say on who goes home.

You will have three weeks to finish the puzzle and an additional week to finish the synopses.

Also, be warned the game is going to get a lot harder! From now on, winning a quickfire will get you an advantage in the elimination, but it will no longer give you immunity, Also, until we get to the Final Three, we reserve the right to send MORE than one person home! STAY ON YOUR TOES!

The Deadline for puzzles is July 29th at 12:01AM EDT and the Synopses are due the following week after (at which time the voting will end also). One of the judges will post the two puzzles with a link to the polling thread in VSP, as well as links in your individual HOF.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[LordKinbote]

Hey, awesome! Do we get to see the opinions?

[Zag]

Ok. Right away, I'm going to ask for more than 3 weeks.

It's summer and people have vacations (including me -- I'm planning to be away the last week of July). Coordinating people who might be in different time zones can take a full day for every question and response. Online collaboration is difficult when it is your real 8-hours-a-day job. When it is a hobby, it gets much harder.

Consider how long the judging has taken for every puzzle so far, and that didn't really require ongoing collaboration, just collecting of the opinions. I'd just like the time to do as good a job on the puzzle as the judges have been doing on the judging.

[MNOWAX]

how does everyone else think about this? would six weeks be enough time?

LK, I'll PM you the comments, as well as anyone who would like it.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[xalolo]

I kind of want to see all the comments, is there a reason we're not doing that anymore? I definitely want to see mine, though.

[Zag]

As the author of the weakest entry in this round, I don't object to the comments being made public. (It was not my best work, I'm afraid.)

(You don't need to send me my comments -- I've already ready them. ~shrugs~ I do wait until the results are announced to look in the Judges-only folder, but that's about all the patience I've got.)

Yeah, six weeks sounds a lot better. Now the challenge is to keep from simply procrastinating for four weeks.

[LordKinbote]

I don't object to the comments being made public either. When they're negative, it's fun to publicly bitch.

[MNOWAX]

Personally, i don't have a problem with it. i will let the judges post their own publicly if they would like to.


Zag

Well This is what i was afraid of when i said no pics. I personally don't like paragraph puzzles, and this one is not even one of Zag's best. I do not like the construction, as paragraph puzzles IIRC should have a set rule to be ollowed. This didn't, it just had a phrase buried in the puzzle, which to me meant it was a cop out.

Theme: 7
Technique: 4
Style: 4

Xalolo

After seeing the first round set, then seeing what he had done in the last challenge, i had high hopes for this. He didn't disappoint i think. I love his direct usage of the thread to find clues for his puzzle, and enjoyed the three parts to the puzzle, giving that "aha!" moment that i desperately need to finish a puzzle. My only gripe is the difficulty of the puzzle, but its a minor complaint.

Theme : 10
Technique 9
Style 9

Persona

I honestly laughed hard when i figured out what the thread was. I loved the concept. however, the actual puzzle construction fell a little flat for me. it was pretty easy, and it was an average puzzle. not bad, but not great either. I wish to see more from him soon, or he won't last too much longer here.

Theme :10
Technique 5
Style 5


Projectyl: I thought this was ok. I wasn't a fan of having to run through everyone, but once i figured out the technique, it was ok. no real "aha" moment in this one, just felt like drudgery.
Theme: 10
Technique: 7
Style: 6

LordKinbote: From a puzzle that no one liked,to having a puzzle that had an extra punishment. Personally I enjoyed this greatly. I love types of puzzles like this, with a bit of humor and wit infused into the puzzle. your example word for your punishment will get a little dock, but otherwise another great puzzle!

Theme: 10
Technique: 9
Style: 9


Jbvntx: I think I am going to be the dick of the round. The challenge was to base a puzzle off of a thread somewhere on the site.and his puzzle didn't follow the rules. I believe he deserves a 0 for theme. That being said even if he didn't get that 0, that was one helluva jump to go from Discovery Channel, Weather Channel, and Science Channel, to Nickelodeon. Seems to me wasn't thought out well,was rushed, and i don't believe it was intentional, as jbv said in the thread.


Theme: 0
Technique:4
Style:3
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[groza528]

As promised, my reviews are a bit more concise this time around
Theme is a better-defined category this time around, but I'm still going to reserve two points for the answer-mechanism-flavor-theme matchup.

jbvntx
Theme - 6 Your puzzle fits the thread passably well, at least as far as the coarse details, but the fine details aren't there and the solution seems pretty unrelated.
Technique - 5 The groupings were easy enough, but the missing elements (no pun intended) were not. Didn't help that I was looking for *metals* when I got to NEONatology. Also, I disagree that "sodium" is in the final group; it would have to be a word that contained sodium to fit the pattern.
Style - 7 I have nothing against dividing a bunch of seemingly unrelated words into groups; that never gets old. I think, however, you could have had more fun with the choice of groups.
Overall - You had unreasonable expectations of the solvers; I managed to figure out what the groupings were but I had to read spoilers to learn out what the missing words were. I'm not sure any of them were uniquely solvable, especially without knowing the 11-letter limit in advance. The final answer was somewhat uninspired.

LordKinbote
Theme - 9 It would have been an easy cop-out to make any puzzle about books and claim it came from the "What are you reading?" thread, but that's not what I see here. Your puzzle isn't about *books*, it's about *reviewing books,* like the thread. You also made good use of your additional constraint from last round.
Technique - 9 There must be a more elegant way to index letter pairs, but damned if I know what it is. Again, good use of your additional constraint to utilize a method that would not be as tidy with other answer phrases.
Style - 10 Yes. Loved it. Recognized some great stories I've read, some I haven't, and then there were some I didn't recognize, but they all had a fun spin.
Overall - A fun and satisfying puzzle. Makes the (imho) correct assumption that people who like puzzles also like reading. Points lost are mostly on principle.

Persona
Theme - 6 It's hard to claim that this puzzle ignores the content of the thread since it directly quotes 40% of the posts... but I think we can agree that it ignores the *intended* content of the thread. Sorry, I can't award a lot of points for basing a puzzle on an amusing derailment. Nice solution though.
Technique - 9 The third questio sounds a little bit forced, but otherwise nice job.
Stlye - 8.5 I loved the primary mechanism, but the second step is a bit obvious and overdone. Tried-and-true, sure, but tried-and-true doesn't earn style points, sadly.
Overall - A very innovative trivia puzzle. Just about the right length: long enough that we got some fun out of the questios but short enough that the N-jection didn't get tedious.

Projectyl
Theme - 10 Definitely nailed the theme down. This puzzle is straight from the thread, including the scoring and themed lists. Also a good use of timely events; made the puzzle seem "contemporary," much like the thread.
Technique - 8 It still drives me crazy that you include extraneous information to obscure your puzzles; maybe it's my engineering background. One point for that and one because Kinbote is right-- Barbara Cartland was only 98 when she died.
Style - 6 The initial idea is fun but after the first three groups I got bored of googling for the deceased parties.
Overall - Great thread choice. Not keen on the use of a research puzzle; watch out for those, they get monotonous unless the research itself is interesting or puzzly.

xalolo
Theme - 8.5 Everything fits except the cryptics (that is, surely cryptic clues would make anybody happy, but the clues are not themselves terribly thematic.) Full point-and-a-half for this because it is the puzzliest part of the puzzle.
Technique - 7 The puzzle in general has a pretty good flow, but the clues... well, they're not the best cryptics I've seen. The bases are a touch clunky and the surface reading is pretty ungainly. Good on you for not falling into the trap of overusing anagram clues. A bit heavy on the single letters, perhaps.
Style - 7.5 Little pieces of your personality come out in this puzzle, as with your previous puzzles. "A meat that is delicious." Reading that clue made *me* happy, which is what the puzzle should be about. You needed more of these fun touches. Without them the straight clues were a little flat.
Overall - I feel bad for marking your technique down on your first attempt at cryptics, but I can't go easy on you for choosing a puzzle medium you're unfamiliar with. Writing good cryptics takes practice, and you might need a bit more before you try to use them in competition. But do get the practice, because they're a lot of fun.

Zag
Theme - 6.5 This puzzle doesn't really scream "Deathwatch" to me... to be honest I didn't even know which thread it was based off of until I saw the link. Personally I view that thread as a macabre game more than a thread for tributes, but I do keep up reasonably well with it and it is clearly both.
Technique - 9 Paragraph puzzles are not my strongest suit and I admit that I had to check Zag's answer for this one (I wish I hadn't though; I'd have loved to see him try to encode the numbers at the end of my name!) It was exactly what I'd hope for in a paragraph puzzle, by which I mean I kicked myself for not seeing it.
Style - 9.5 A fine sentiment. Very tasteful; the tone of the puzzle fits its subject matter.
Overall - It's a good puzzle with a good message, and I'm sorry I have to ding you on theme. It's a very thematic puzzle, unfortunately I just don't think that theme relates to the challenge as well as it could.

[LordKinbote]

[Undercover Monk]

First off a little explanation on how I scored this round as style being looking nice is hard to judge with no formatting allowed and a very ridgid theme.

Theme: either a 10 used athread correctly/ a 5 used thread icorrectly/ or 0 used no thread

Technique: the same as always and very important in this round

Style: did getting the answer to the puzzle give me a wow or AHA or Duh moment. was the puzzle entertaining.


so on to the judging....

Xaolo: You continue to impress in an obviously tricky round. It was nice to see if a round focused on content rather than style would be a tripping stone for you. I am not a fan of cryptic clues basically because I don’t understand them but the logic appears sound. An above average but not great puzzle. I would have liked the top clues to have been in the correct order to help solvers, so a small deduction in style.

Theme: 10
Technique: 7
Style: 8


Persona: I really liked this puzzle. However when I clicked on the link and saw that you were using a thread that I had misspelled the title on (I was hurriedly trying to find a way to delete a post that would have ruined one of my mafia games) I couldn’t figure out if you were trying to curry my favor or mock me. However I give you props for using such an obscure thread you never even commented on. Technique is fine (though simple) except for the answer. I solved the puzzle and laughed a lot. (Renal system and refusal to leaven bread) But the final answer didn’t seem to match up with theme. I guess you were arguing I should copy or edit IDK. Ruined what could have been a great puzzle ad score.

Theme: 10
Technique: 8
Style: 8


Zag: I started this puzzle on completely the wrong foot. Looking at the answer I would say this looks rushed. Even if you solve it correctly and get the answer there is no aha or duh moment just an OK yawn moment. Theme also is a bummer because only the answer had to do with the thread. The first poor submission from you. Good thing this was a quickfire

Theme: 5
Technique: 5
Style: 3


Projectyls: The second deathwatch puzzle of the round (you guys are a depressing bunch) was a wikipedia marathoner. Which is alright I guess. Organization is the key to this one. And the amount of work that goes into it just to make it to the ages and years of deaths make this an excellent group solver. In fact I only researched about half the list before I saw the mechanic and decided to just read the answer. The Gary Coleman answer was an excellent AHA (too soon) moment not a perfect (or favorite) puzzle nor a perfect score but pretty darn close.

Theme: 10
Technique: 8
Style: 10


LordKinBote: Wow. Even with a hard quick round and a penalty you made a great puzzle. Comparable to your drunken posts puzzle from last season. Technique was great I was able to get about 7 books right on my first read through and though a few I never got they don’t seem to hard to find via Wikipedia and help from a few more literate friends. The chain of letters clue is nice but I saw where it was going without it which is nice to see since I don’t think I would have checked the first letters of every post. I am sad to see you used our example word as the solution but you probably didn’t have time to research another and it fit beautifully with the theme. Again not perfect but close

Theme: 10
Technique: 8
Style: 10


Jbvntx: I believe this puzzle was late and like Zag’s it feels rushed. Theme is fine but I have major problems with technique. I don’t see how most people would find the missing entry. How are we supposed to guess the missing cable channel is Nickelodeon out of the hundreds of options? I think putting all 16 words would have made the puzzle accessible and still difficult enough to have to see both 11 letters and and the element.

Theme: 10
Technique: 5
Style: 5





So even though persona's puzzle was my favorite to solve I think LK and Projectyls were the best. and considering the forum solved all of his including the clue I did not get and that he had a penalty I think we should give LK immunity. Can't wait to see what you guys thought.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[xalolo]

[LordKinbote]

[Persona]

Turns out there's a 'linksys' here, so I'm online in fits and spurts this week.

I'd vote for somewhere between 4 and 6 weeks, since I'll mostly be working on this on weekends.

[MNOWAX]

lets do six weeks then.

Deadline has been Changed to August 19th, with the write up being due on the 26th.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[MNOWAX]

How are we doing?
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Zag]

I sent out PM's and emails, and set up a mailing list. jbvntx and I have had a couple of emails. We haven't heard from Projectyl at all. It's pretty slow going.

Have I mentioned that I hate group projects?

[MNOWAX]

i know. I was always one of those people that hated to work in groups at school and work. if you take too much work in, everyone else gets lazy. if you are too lenient, nothing gets done at all.

This puzzle is designed not only to test out your puzzle making skills but your collaboration skills in terms of puzzle making as well.

in short MUWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!


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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[MNOWAX]

Questons? comments Concerns? how is everyone? anyone having a problem getting into contact with anyone?
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[jbvntx]

zag and I have made some progress. nary a peep from projectyl so far.
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jbv

[MNOWAX]

WE ARE JUST UNDER TWO WEEKS REMAINING!
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Zag]

Hi,

jbvntx and I have settled on a basic framework, but still no word from projectyl. jb also has one really great part of it, and I was planning on making a similar one this weekend. Unfortunately, this weekend, my sinuses decided to try to crawl out through my eye sockets, so I can't seem to focus enough to get anything working.

[MNOWAX]

Thanks for the update, Zag

I don't think i have heard from the other team at all.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[LordKinbote]

[MNOWAX]

No pressure, but you guys have ONLY A WEEK REMAINING!!!!
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Zag]

Thanks for the heads up. We're in good shape, and should make it with no problem. jbv has been great to work with, but still no word at all from projectyl. projectyl, if you're out there, it's still not too late to make a contribution!!

[xalolo]

I'm sorry, but I've had absolutely no time for this competition during the summer, so I'll have to withdraw. Really not into this team mechanic.

[MNOWAX]

i would seriously reconsider your withdrawal. this is the only team challenge in this entire competition, and if you work on the team puzzle, even a little bit, it may be enough to get you through to the next round.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[xalolo]

Sorry, but I'm out.

(edited to be less drama-y)

[MNOWAX]

no pressure but you guys have 1 DAY!
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX