10 Year Reunion: Game Over!

[mole]

You really bought all of that "list of heroes" stuff Zag talked about in his claim?

[Internet Stranger]

All I bought was that he was Murray. How was I supposed to know that Murray was an evil scumbag?
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[Alfie]

The mountain of evidence against IS is taller today than it was yesterday.

Vote: IS

I still like Sofis for mafia, too, but I'll take it one day at a time.

[Mackay]

unvote: IS because it's only 4 to lynch and I'd like to keep this day alive just for now.

Alfie, mind if I ask you to elaborate upon what evidence you feel has appeared against IS since, say, the start of yesterday? All information is important, so don't feel as though you should leave anything out at all.

[Internet Stranger]

Alfie doesnt have any. He is playing the Zaq-style vendetta card because I called him an idiot for voting for me.

Turns out Zaq was scum. Is Alfie scum too? Thats too obvious, so he is just dumb.
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[Alfie]

IS's mountain of guilt was more than tall enough to lynch him yesterday. However, the (albeit unsurprising) revelation Zag's scumitude puts him in an even worse light.

Early on, Zag rated IS down. Then (during the night) Zag snapped from heel to toe, abandoned his meter and started voting with IS on "blind faith". Now that we know for absolute fact that the 'I thought he was a cop' story is pure bunk, we look for some other reason for his change. I suspect he was trying to get in on the distancing tactic IS was using on Sofis. Both actions link him to IS, though.

When things started getting hot, he turned on IS, figuring if IS was going down, he'd make it look good for himself.

Even stranger, IS actually defends Zag after his roleclaim. I think this is relatively weak evidence, comparatively, but it points the same direction as the rest of the evidence.

Also, everything I said yesterday still applies.

Everything is perfectly consistent with a Zag/IS scumteam. I don't think I'm bestowing any marvelous revelations, here. I expect that everybody else has observed basically the same thing. IS is trying to impugn my intelligence, which might be fair, based on my argument. After all, I don't think I've observed anything particularly subtle.

I think there's an excellent chance that we could win the game this round.

[Mackay]

Well, I don't know about this round. IMO, there's surely one more scum after IS, maybe even two if we have been at lynch-or-lose and didn't know it. But I think the town is in surprisingly good shape given our form two gamedays ago, yes

Elayne, is the majority of your reason for voting IS that he (intentionally or otherwise) posted as though Antrax and not someone else had been targeted (and the switch back to Sofis, which seemed to be a "that's just IS" thing for you yesterday when he changed to mole and Antrax)? Or is there more than that?

IS, any chance of a claim?

[Elayne]

Mackey, I'll try to explain how I've interpreted IS actions throughout the game.

When IS picked Sofis day 1 and for the most part refused to comment on anyone else, I saw it as a cover. He could be scum using it to hide what he was thinking. Or as town to keep who he really suspected hidden so he could name them all at once and to avoid being targeted by scum. I really wasn't sure which it was for the first few days.

Then on Day 4 after hammering DP, he stops any pretense of voting for Sofis, and names two totally different people as scum. There was the possibility he was town and he realized he needed to drop his cover and work with the town to avoid being lynched after that kind of hammer. The people he named in that case could have been who he thought were scum from the previous days when he wasn't sharing his thoughts with us. He named Sofis with Mole at first, but quickly changed to Antrax after saying Antrax fell into his tasty target trap. I came to the conclusion that Sofis was picked at random and he never seriously thought he was scum. I said as much and I don't think that IS contradicted it.

Now, on Day 5, he votes for Sofis again when he never really had any logic behind from day 1. If he stuck with Sofis when he droped his cover on day 4 and provided some logic, fine. Now with Antrax dead he decides that because he was wrong about Antrax, he was automatically wrong about mole and changes back to Sofis? How is Sofis's role claim any less believable then the one Zag made that he bought?

IS was already either #1 or 2 on my list before today so his change in voting, his not finding Zag's claim in the list bit suspicious when the favor text he provided was so over the top for a plain townie, and his ignoring Antrax being a bodyguard cemented him at #1.

[Elayne]

bleh trying to make a long post quickly over lunch leads to some grammar errors but I think for the most part my post is readable. The one possible confusing part is this sentence was missing an it

Now, on Day 5, he votes for Sofis again when he never really had any logic behind it from day 1.

Also, since I know I confused Quailman before, Zag was #1 on my list yesterday. So the #2 and #3 on my list (IS and Alfie) got promoted when he was lynched.

[Quailman]

I don't want to jump to conclusions today. I don't know if we're lynch or lose, but our track record isn't very good. I suspect everyone. fos: Sofis for his hammer yesterday. fos: IS for his the day prior. I need to rethink my position, since I suspected Antrax as another possible scum at the start of yesterday.

[Internet Stranger]

Role claim. hahaha.

Im innocent, thats all you need to know.

Elayne pretty much has it. I summed it up earlier. Like Quailman, I suspect everyone. So ill go with Sofis for now, but im pretty much willing to vote for everyone.
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[Internet Stranger]

Even if you all lynch me, ill have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right about being innocent and you all were suckers for believing the scum.
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[Mackay]

[Internet Stranger]

Not claiming. Im innocent. Thats all you need to know.

Whoever tries the hardest to lynch me is the scum.
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[mole]

[Alfie]

Sofis' hammer says pretty much nothing. Even a scum would hammer Zag after he outed himself. What can we say, counting fail FTW?

[Internet Stranger]

One of you is the scum, I just know it!

I dont think its Mackay.

If I was wrong on Antrax, im probably wrong about Mole since I was using the same reasoning on both. Or maybe im right, but got overzealous and picked two scum instead of just the one.

I thought Elayne was innocent, but she is still attacking me.

Quail is being too quiet.

Sofis is being too quiet.

Alfie. All I hear is yap yap yap.

So it might as well be Sofis since that was my initial reading.

IS - fo' sho' innocent. 100%
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[Internet Stranger]

One more thing. Who was the scum trying to kill anyways? My guess is that they were killing Mackay. Since she put the Scorpion Deathlock on Zaq, we (the town) wouldnt be stupid enough to try to lynch her.

So that was probably a good guess by Antrax.
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[Quailman]

I think its

Sofis 1
IS 2

I think it's safe to assume that the GF of an organizaton called KAKAPO has got to be Paladin.

If Antrax was a bodyguard, that means he takes a bullet for anyone he might be protecting? That's a pretty worthless role if there's not a power role to protect - at least not one stronger than a one-shot cop. There can't be just innocents, 1 body guard, 1 one-shot cop and the bad guys.


...still pondering...

[Alfie]

I assumed 'bodyguard' meant he prevented the kill. If what you say is true, then how do we know he was the intended target?

Maybe we need to analyze who he might have been protecting last night?

[Quailman]

In the absence of a more detailed death scene, I don't think we can make an assumption either way. It's telling that certain people assumed he had been protecting someone.

[Mackay]

[Internet Stranger]

Im just going by what Elayne said.
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[Elayne]

All Elayne asked was did you consider Antrax's role at all when you made your statement about why kill Antrax.

About the only thing I assumed about the bodyguard, was that since it is called that, the role would guard someone, somehow or else why name it that? Guarding a place is more of a night watchman/ neighborhood watch thing I would think.

I thought of a couple of possibilities for how it might work. One, the role guards the person and will scare off someone that tries to kill them. If that was the case, then Antrax would have been the target. Another along that line is the scum run into the bodyguard and shoot them instead, which would make someone not Antrax the target. Another possibility would be that the bodyguard has the ability to shoot the person who came to attack the person they are protecting, in which case Antrax was the target. Some of these people already mentioned or other possibilities I hadn't thought of

I thought it suspicious that IS didn't even seem to consider what the role might mean, but since mole didn't check Antrax's role either maybe I shouldn't read anything into it. Does everyone not bother to check the role of the person who died or was it just those two? There is always the chance that the dead person had a role that gives them information which you then need to take into consideration when reviewing their posts.

Quail, why is Sofis at the top of your list right now? Where is Sofis for that matter?

[Sofis]

[Internet Stranger]

IGMEOYS!
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[Quailman]

Sofis, you're not at the top of my list, IS is. I guess you're tied with everyone else for second. I understand that your hammer was under different circumstances than his.

I looked up bodyguard on the scumwiki and found three possibilities. He could be a straight doc, a doc who protects but dies instead, Or a 50-50 chance of protecting his charge and IDing the attacker or just dying himself. A fourth option is to kill the attacker (obvious did not happen here).

I suspect he was the target, but who else might have been?

[Internet Stranger]

Like I said... Mackay. Its like youre all scum and conspiring against me.

Im completely innocent and you all will look so dumb if you lynch me. Except for the scum of course, they are going to get a parade for this game.
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[Mackay]

Just to let y'all know, I'm going to be without 'net access this weekend. I've got about 12 hours before I go, but I intend to spend most of those asleep, so I probably won't post again till Monday my time - about 3 days. I'm sure you can get by without me =)

[mole]

I don't quite get where the discussions about Antrax's role are going to take us. Is there something useful you are trying to work out?

Only the mafia know what really happened last night. So I think Elayne's questions to IS in post 557 are a better place to start... If IS is scum then he knows who the real target was. Has he (or someone else) let slip that they know more than they should?

[Internet Stranger]

Elayne is the only one talking that way.
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[mith]

Vote Count: 4 to lynch.

Internet Stranger: 2 (Elayne, Alfie)
Sofis: 1 (Internet Stranger)

Not Voting: 4 (mole, Quailman, Sofis, Mackay)

[Sofis]

It doesn't seem like we have a terribly large amount to say today. I would be satisfied to lynch IS and see what remains tomorrow.

Vote: Internet Stranger

[Internet Stranger]

Youre lynching an innocent. Just sayin'

Im going to get the biggest "I told you so" of them all.
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[Quailman]

I want to wait for Mackay to get back Monday before voting - just to see if she has any insight. I'm still concerned that she might be scum as a result of the phony scumometer set-up, though. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.

[mole]

IS, how about a claim? You don't want to be in the "refused to give us a straight answer" list as DP and firemeboy, do you?

Quailman: I'm a little worried about Mackay too. A little paranoia is good in this game though, right? She's posting a lot and getting really into it, acting like she's already won the game. She probably has - but for which side?
But I do trust her for now. I don't know if she could have kept up that argument with Zag for so long if they were both mafia together.
On the other other hand, she did say to Antrax that she wishes she was
scum!

While I'm at it,

Alfie - He really woke up yesterday with his attack on IS. I don't think he was just a less unconvincing version of Zag though -- he looks to me like a genuine townie who's finally found someone who looks like scum and is trying to take him down.

Elayne - Yesterday Elayne drew attention to Antrax, IS, and Zag because they had changed their playstyles since Day 3. So we know now that Zag was scum, IS is pretty scummy, and Antrax is innocent. But I'm confused about why Elayne didn't change her approach. She was the last vote on one townie, and the second last vote for another, and the top of her list turned out to be innocent too. But she hasn't posted anything to analyse why things were going so spectacularly wrong for the town, like Antrax did, and she didn't excitedly jump in and join the argument when she thought she had a scum...

A large part of this is probably just Elayne's normal style of play. But in a repeat of my Day 3 round-up: I had townie reads on Antrax and Alfie because of these actions. I'd really like to get a townie read on Elayne, but I can't.

I don't trust IS obviously. He's started to post something other than "lynch Sofis" but he's still confusing and unhelpful.
Also, I like the theory from yesterday that Zag was trying to throw him under the bus. Zag was completely confident that he had found a scum in IS, whereas on Day 2 he was incredibly uncomfortable about people voting for Amb after he got +4 on the scum-o-meter.

Mackay - see above.
mole - How could you think something that looks like this is scum?

Quailman - Same as Alfie, minus some points because the difference in his play isn't as noticible, plus some points because he's claimed.
Sofis - He took away my chance to hammer Zag! Lurker scum, but probably not mafia scum. He's claimed already too, which is nice.

[Elayne]

What has gone wrong for the town? I think it's pretty obvious, there has been some some bad play when under pressure/asked to claim by the people lynched:

firemeboy - 50/50 logic thing, got him lynched
amb - claimed Sofis
DP - wouldn't claim

When Quailman and Sofis were asked to claim, they calmly stated their names and roles and people unvoted and we moved on to other targets. It might have been the same for the other three lynches as well had they done so. You tell me what the rest of us can do to stop these things from happening? Ask the players not to do it? We have. You did just now with IS. Given this is IS, I doubt he will do it no matter how much we ask.

Now, onto whether I have or haven't changed my approach. With amb I voted because I thought he was scum. With DP, I may have unvoted had I gotten to see his post. Sadly, I didn't. I voted Zag (and I was the second vote on Zag) because I thought he was scum. I have voted for IS for the same reason. The only thing looking back I wish I had done differently, is not vote DP though I think he would have been lynched anyways. I did try to learn from amb and consider that IS might have just been an idiot when he voted for DP and acted different on day 4. So I voted for Zag instead.

Why didn't I rip into Zag? Frankly, I thought it was clear he was scum. I thought he knew he was going down after the tide turned from IS to him(which makes any information he gave after that point suspect). I suppose I could have ganged up on him too, but I felt a little sorry for Zag the person. It looks like he is a fairly new player and clearly is stuggling with how to play. I was a little harsh on fmb earlier and he posted I'll never play again and disappeared. So maybe I was over compensating when Zag started showing some of the same signs. My contribution to trying to get some information out of him that could help us with the rest of the game was to get him to claim before he died. I wanted to see what a scum would claim.

If it makes you feel better about me, I can claim tomorrow. I said before I was willing.

Got to run, driving to see my grandparents and it is a 2.5 hour drive so I'll be gone for most of Sunday.

[Internet Stranger]

I still say we lynch Sofis. I shouldnt get away from my initial hunches.
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[Alfie]

[Mackay]

Hey guys. I got home last night but when I read the thread there were, like, 2 posts since I left and I was tired. Sorry. Nice to see some actual posts today =)

Saying there isn't much to say today is lame. So is waiting for me to post as though I know anything. That being said, I am going to try to invent something to talk about, so good for you guys I guess.

I think that there is a tiny chance that IS is pro-town, but his failure to claim negates the possible usefulness of keeping him alive (A power role isn't going to somehow preserve his life by not claiming, and I don't believe there is any other pro-town reason he wouldn't, or would behave the way he has). I think his refusal stems from the fact that we might be able to relate a claim of his to Zag's somehow - Quail's suggestion of Paladin as a godfather makes me think that IS' role could be super-early on the memberlist or something like that. I think there is definitely something in his role that he is uncomfortable with claiming/explaining.

A few (real-life) days ago, I was convinced that I could get the game won for the town. In my head, any extra scum on top of IS could only be among Elayne and Alfie, so we could just lynch them both - if there were three mafia we have the numbers to spare an innocent lynch, and if there were four it's both of them so we win anyway!

But now, Sofis has been weird enough that I can't consider him as strongly innocent as I had in previous days. And I don't understand Quail's behaviour at all, I think I must have misinterpreted some of what he was saying, because my trying to reply in a helpful manner has brought his suspicion upon me. =) Nonetheless, I feel that he and mole have had the most townieish reactions to everything that has been going on, and if either is mafia, congratulations!

Sofis, what do you think is the biggest piece of evidence against IS from yesterday? Be explicit, please.

Elayne seems happy to claim. Should we let her? In fact, what does everyone think of a mass-claim? (I don't know what I think of it myself yet, I'd say I'm mildly in favour as an initial reaction.)

I think my list, from most suspicious to least, goes:

IS
Alfie
Elayne
Sofis
mole
Quailman
Mackay

with Alfie/Elayne roughly equal.

P.S. As much as I hate to agree with IS at this particular point in time, I also think that if Antrax were protecting anyone it would be me. I only say that because he came closer to expressing trust in me/belief in my pro-town-hood than he did about anyone else *shrug* I don't think it really helps much, as we have no way of knowing if he died as a target or protecting one, but I didn't want to avoid the topic altogether.

P.P.S. mole, now that I know Zag was scum, I'm glad I'm not! If that makes you feel any better

P.P.P.S. Plenty to talk about now? Sorry about the scattered tone of the post BTW, I just woke up and am also consciously trying to cram as many discussion topics into the post as possible.