Johnny Depp Mafia: [Game Over]

[raekuul]

Enough. Quail, I'm starting agree with Chaz here. There's something weird about what you're doing. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I just get this feeling that you're not telling the full story.

[MNOWAX]

When all else faiuls, put pressure.

Vote Quail.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Mackay]

What the hell, Chaz?

You think I was investigated by a cop and found innocent, but are trying to set up my lynch anyway? Saying that I'm probably a serial killer when there was only one night kill? DAMN, dude. What is wrong with you? Are you just butthurt because I keep calling you an idiot? Because if you'd stop being this damn stupid, I might ease up.

Ugh.

(I think you're probably wrong about my having been investigated, btw, I can't imagine that I would be the prime suspect to anyone but you, plus your hamhanded attempts at subtlety again have let me know exactly what you're talking about, and I'm pretty sure it's genuinely behaviourally-based.)

More to come after my coffee, I just had to get that out of my system. I have never been in a mafia game that made me this mad before, and it's not even remotely game-based.

[Chaz]

I asked that my post be ignored for the time being.
I just want to have a sweet post to point back to in a "see!" capacity.

Otherwise... there are explanations for a single night kill. I'm not convinced that you're an SK... only that you're not vanilla.
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The enemy's base is down.

[Mackay]

OK. Chaz.
1) You've been throwing around "either/or"s all game, so I can only laugh at your trying to insert a straw one into Quail's post and then attack it.
2) Generally, the standard conclusion when you suspect the target of an investigation was found innocent is to assume their innocence, not to formulate theories about how they can fit your view of them being guilty (because they hurt your feelings)! And not to point it out to the town!
3) I'm pretty sure most SKs don't come up innocent, and I'm also pretty heavily suspicious of the person I think you believe is the cop. If I thought it were anything other than your being butthurt about my calling you stupid repeatedly and trying to turn that into suspicion, I would be voting to lynch you right now.

MNOWAX:
Why would you hang around proclaiming how scummy Krad/raekuul is and that he would be a good lynch, without ever casting a single vote to back up that rhetoric, and then throw a frivolous vote onto Quail to add "pressure" the instant somebody calls his behaviour into question? Especially when that someone is Chaz, the person whom you declared your biggest suspect? Why didn't you want to "put pressure on" KradDrol?
FOS: MNOWAX

Quail:
I might need a moment to compose myself, it's been so long since anyone offered an argument against me that was based in reality. *cries tears of joy*
I can't really deny anything that you've said. Yes, I voted for Chaz, and we were definitely posting a lot and at the same time for two evenings on day 1, though I'm still bewildered as to why people think he was following me when I'm pretty sure we only voted the same way once. That's a thing that KradDrol said when trying to fling suspicion away from himself, not something that actually happened. He was successfully rebutted and never responded to my counterargument.
Also: I think maybe people should actually follow me, because I think I'm right, and everyone is willing to say that they suspect Krad without voting for him.
Anyway, I'm not linked with Chaz, and if I were (or if *I* had been accused of following *him*) I would probably have self-voted at this point. I think we are two extremely vocal players in a game full of borderline lurkers/nonparticipants, so most of our posts end up addressing one another at least in part, especially when Chaz says such infuriatingly ridiculous things.

[Mackay]

[Chaz]

As am I. I definitely don't buy that you're vanilla. I definitely know that you claimed to be vanilla.
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The enemy's base is down.

[Mackay]

Oh. In that case, you won't be right eventually. But maybe you can accuse me of every role but vanilla, then retroactively claim that you did it to draw out my real vanilla role, or something =)

[MNOWAX]

[MNOWAX]

Yay for double posting.

Chaz has been an idiot this game, and while I think he's scum, its only a feeling, no real proof yet. Kraddrol said some dumb things that made him look scummy, and Quail, well, cant keep his story straight. If you put pressure on someone already backtracking, it tends to make them crack a little.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Mackay]

So again: if you felt Krad was scummy, why didn't you put pressure on him before he was replaced? If Chaz had two votes at any point before raek's replacement (I don't remember whether he did or not), one of them was yours. If it was only one vote, I'm pretty sure THAT one was you. Your switching to Krad would have given him the first substantial amount of votes this game day, and put a good amount of "pressure" on a person that you claimed was one of the ones you suspected most. Instead, you chose to say that he was suspicious without actually doing anything.

In addition, you have just stated that "Quail has been scummy the entire game", but the first post in which you mentioned him was the one where you voted him! You did not mention him at ALL before that. Not once. In fact, there was no mention of finding Quailman suspicious until AFTER you had already voted for him, and suddenly you've found him scummy all game!

In that same post, you wrote "When all else fails, put pressure". That, again, doesn't sound like someone who thinks Quail has been particularly scummy. It certainly doesn't sound like someone who has suspected Quail all game. It sounds like someone going along with a bandwagon that won't hurt them - which is fine, except that your justification for doing so sounds like an overcompensation from someone with something to hide.

One more thing:

[Dragon Phoenix]

I find it interesting how little support I am getting for my vote on sAbLLimINal. You'd think that at least one scum would hop on, agreeing with my reasoning. Strengthens my believe that he is scum himself.

Mnowax is a good alternative for today, granted.

Raekuul is another one I am keeping an eye on for now, mainly because of post 301.

Chaz is not helping (steering the cop is always anti-town), but I do not read him as scum anymore right now. I do not see Quailman as scum either. Gut feeling, no more, no less, in both cases.

Mackay, ralphmerridew look town right now to me, for different reasons.

The rest I do not have a read on.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[Chaz]

Maybe I missed something then. It doesn't seem like Quail or you (DP) has said anything one way or the other. Quail did, but then he quickly back-peddled, and then played it off as "oh... I... you... we... huh? where am I?" DP, you said "either/or" statements are scumtells (even though mine meant "who we should put pressure on" and Quail's practically said "[Either] Chaz (and possibly Mackay) are scum" "[or]" "[KradDrol and Sab are]".

Mackay is embittered, but I can dismiss that for now, since I am attacking her directly. She really shouldn't feel as threatened by me as she seems to be, since I literally have only logic, and I've admitted and said several times that my logic is faulty at best, and I'm only following it to get people talking.

I really don't have a clue who scum is, but I do think Quail is deliberately not talking, and that is the scummiest thing I know of.

LaL (whether the second "L" means liars or lurkers, Quail is the primo-candidate as of now.)
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The enemy's base is down.

[Chaz]

Asked to guess, right now, I would say "Quail, DP, rm, and possibly Mackay."
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The enemy's base is down.

[Mackay]

I feel neither bitter nor threatened, though I have admittedly felt frustrated by the fact that a) nobody is listening about Krad and b) nobody was even talking about anything until the last couple of (real-life) days. Nice try, though. =) My repeatedly pointing out that you're being an idiot has had nothing to do with my in-game status, and everything to do with the fact that you've been acting like an idiot.
It's cute that you think you're a threat, though.

Anyway, it's going to be something more along the lines of Krad, sAb, and MNO/Zag. You probably wouldn't have noticed, seeing as how none of them have personally slighted you.

[Amb]

4 days to go

Vote count
2. Quailman: Chaz, MNOWAX
2. Chaz: Quailman, Zag
1. SAbLLimiNal: Dragon Phoenix
1. MNOWAX: Mackay

Not Voting: Raekuul, ralphmerridew, SAbLLimiNal, Silverfire, Undercover Monk

At end of day, the player with the most votes (min of 3) will be lynched. If a tie occurs, the player who reached their number of votes first, will be lynched. If no player has 3 or more votes at day end, there will be no lynch.

Incidentally some players have not picked up my prods. Failure to pick these up or post in thread may result in replacements or modkills. (WIth a preference for replacements) Obviously I will be as lenient on this as I can.

[Mackay]

Amb: my vote is for MNOWAX, not Quailman. Thought I should throw this at the top of my post so others notice as well.

[Amb]

Serves me right for not going to bed when I should have.

[Chaz]

[raekuul]

I'm leaning towards voting for Quailman at the moment, but I want to wait until he say something before I do or do not vote for him.

In the meantime, though... I get the feeling I've missed something in my re-reading of the thread. Mackay, why sAb instead of me?

[Quailman]

I was wondering that same thing. If no one else is convinced that Chaz is as scummy as I believe he is, DP I could probably be convinced to back DP.

[Silverfire]

I'm opposed to a Quailman lynch, even though I know we're going to lose our chance at a lynch if we don't make up our minds fairly quickly. He was rather quiet near the beginning of the game, but once Chaz started to put pressure on him he spoke up. That, and I've agreed with a lot of what he's been saying. Shouldn't steer the cop, possibility of masonship rather than scumbuddyship. I'd like to see Quailman posting more often *hint, hint* if only because he seems to be poking holes at Chaz's dominance of the town.

As for the possibility of a Chaz/Mackay link, it doesn't seem likely to me because of how much they bicker with and contradict each other, as well as the huge risk they're taking by being so vocal, but it would be a pretty daring strategy. Imagine it: two scumbuddies decide to post so much that they dominate the town's discourse, and they disagree with each other without attacking each other too directly. Townies are guided into taking one side or the other, and a townie is lynched either way. Meanwhile, one or two other mafia members lies low in case it doesn't pay off. I should totally use that strategy the next time I'm mafia.

If I had to decide who to put pressure on, even though I'd like to see Chaz on the defensive, I think sAb should speak up. My primary reason is that despite being under suspicion for much of the game, he's never really said much to defend himself. And as DP pointed out, the fact that it's worked so far is another point against him. Please start talking, sAb.

[Chaz]

[Zag]

[Chaz]

So, if I'm innocent, who do you next suspect?
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The enemy's base is down.

[Zag]

I've been pretty clear that I have Krad/raekuul as a close #2, not tied at all to you. After that, MNO and sab are tied, more or less, for third. Then it's something of a blur, and Mackay is the only one I feel pretty sure is innocent. (This was because of her reaction to Snik's trangression -- I just can't see any mafia having the nerve to say that.)

[Mackay]

[Chaz]

Repeating what I've already said... I think that we can decide later if sAB is scum or not.

I have no idea about Quail or rm, and I see no way to link them to anything. They need to say something more meaningful, but they're not, and they don't seem to have any incentive to do so.
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The enemy's base is down.

[Mackay]

But why?

When we have sAb with potential links to raekuul and Zag both, and Quail whom you feel you can't link to anything, why would the lynch which gives us the least information be the wisest course of action? (I'm assuming we at least agree on not wanting you lynched.)

[Chaz]

Because we have sAb with potential links to raekuul and Zag both, but Quail, I feel, we can't link to anything. Putting him in a position to be lynched gives us at least some information to be the wisest course of action.

Mostly... I don't want Quail lynched (yet), I want him to say something meaningful. rm too. They're too quiet for my tastes. If he's unwilling to say anything, then I don't see how his death is a loss to town. He's not saying anything, so his vote is useful, but a lot more useful to Mafia (since his death can't redeem or condemn anyone.)

Let's give him a reason to say something.
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The enemy's base is down.

[Mackay]

OK, I see what you're getting at - I thought you were arguing that Quail was the better lynch, not someone you wanted information from. IMO, that's fair under normal circumstances, but with 3 days to deadline I think the pressure-someone-for-information game is probably a bit too risky. I'd prefer to go for a solid lynch which will also yield a great deal of information through their ties to other players - raekuul, sAb, Zag, or MNOWAX.

I'm growing happier with my vote on Sab the more I think about the slip-up DP pointed out. I don't think it's super-clear that he is assuming that Snik is innocent, but the overtones are definitely there, and "forgetting that the rest of the town doesn't have as much information as you" is one of my favourite tells. I have some fond memories of that one. Plus, I still heavily suspect a link with raekuul.

[Zag]

OK. Other than in Chaz's fevered imagination, how do you tie me to sAb?

In fact, now that you've brought up the question, I see Chaz's early attempt to tie me to sAb as a distancing effort from him and a way to sling mud at me. If he can tie us together, that helps his scum buddy when you learn that I am innocent, or at least it makes me a lynch target when it turns out sAb is guilty. And, in that case, Chaz gets to stand back and say that at least he pointed to one.

[Mackay]

Your defenses have been less on your own behalf, and more against the idea of a perceived link between you and sAb, which suggests that you are worried about being seen as being linked with sAb - which, in turn, suggests that the two of you have something to hide.

It's tied in with a more general impression that a whole bunch of people are persistently linking to one another - sAb linked himself with you, which is something that you, unfortunately, cannot help. He did this with his day 1 vote, and subsequent defense, of you.

KradDrol linked himself with sAb by jumping to his defense on day 1.

MNOWAX has linked himself with Krad by saying things like "I really want to know why Krad/kuul can be anything but scum" without ever casting a vote or applying pressure to him in any way, while jumping straight onto a Quail bandwagon with the statement "if all else fails". He looks like he's pretending to think raekuul is guilty while giving absolutely nothing in the way of contribution to his bandwagon, and he hasn't posted since I called him out on it. He's overtaken Krad as my #1 choice for a lynch.

I have felt that you have also linked yourself with KradDrol by attempting to ignore or downplay attacks against him, and subtly discredit the people making the attacks. I want to say the same for sAb, but a lot of that was against Chaz, and God knows I can't blame you for taking an anti-Chaz stance as a general rule.

As for the rest of your post, I don't think you need to worry about the theory you have offered, because I am certainly far more interested in lynching sAb first and not you, and the obvious connection should sAb turn out guilty is raekuul IMO. I'm glad you said something, though, because I had only noticed a tenuous link between Krad and Chaz. This keeps my mind open to other possible alliances. Thanks. =)

[Chaz]

[Chaz]

[out of game]
Hmmmm... I am making a possible bad assumption that Amb is going to extend the day deadline if certain people who he's prodded haven't answered the prod (or at least posted in the thread) so that they're not mod-killed.

Is that true Amb? Can we have an extension if those players haven't posted yet, or will they be mod-killed in three days?
[/out of game]
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The enemy's base is down.

[Amb]

I wont be purposefully modkilling any player if I can avoid it. However, I probably should announce that SabLiminal is up for replacement as he/she appears to have vanished.

[Zag]

[Chaz]

Zag... if everything I do seems scummy to you (but not others), then maybe you should check your premise and read the thread again?

With another death or two, I can guess at the guilt or innocence of almost every player in this game except Quail and rm. Think about how useful that would be for them if they're mafia.
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The enemy's base is down.

[MNOWAX]

[Mackay]