|
|
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:21 am Post subject: 1041 |
 |
|
I couldn't possibly do what he did (since the customs wouldn't happen in Utah, and that would mean that I'd likely be with other people.)
I do find it very disturbing that (if this story is true, which I assume it is) the TSA feels like they can search every person as they come back in to this country. They can't hide behind the shield of "keeping flights safe" any longer. Their methods are terrifying. Literally, they are terrorists. 
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: 1042 |
|
|
Agreed. The search *after* the flight was surprising to me. I'm not one for conspiracies but something nefarious is afoot I think.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: 1043 |
|
|
I had a fun night at my friends house (Greg is such an excellent cook and Mike is a great musician). Watched Inception for the second time, and some good discussion about that. Also some DC anime and just all around geekiness.
Top off the night with a good heart to heart with my brother in front of his apartment. I drove off to go home. I got pulled over. I was sober, and I use my cruise control to go the speed limit. Those of you that know how I feel about cops know that hilarity ensued (when they're military like, like I was, I give them props. Or when they're like firefighters and saving people, props. When they're jack boot thugs, not so much).
License, registration, insurance. "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I really don't and I'm annoyed so I say "I have cruise control and use it so I know I was going 40. I know I'm not drunk so I didn't drive erratically. You're the fascist pig why don't you tell me?"
Not a brilliant response but he eventually let me go after a lot more dialogue. A chat friend nailed why he pulled me over, I think but I'm so worn out. I typed out the whole convo as I remember it talking to her if anyone is interested.
[Addon]: The reason I posted this is because he wanted to search my car, including my trunk, search me and with all but a stupid reason. And the whole time I told him fuck you.
And while I was talking with a friend she would say "why are you so stubborn? It took an hour of your day dealing with him when you could have just said you were talking with your brother." I shouldn't have to tell him that. He doesn't have the right to know. And I shouldn't have to excuse myself.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: 1044 |
|
|
| Samadhi wrote: |
License, registration, insurance. "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I really don't and I'm annoyed so I say "I have cruise control and use it so I know I was going 40. I know I'm not drunk so I didn't drive erratically. You're the fascist pig why don't you tell me?"
[Addon]: The reason I posted this is because he wanted to search my car, including my trunk, search me and with all but a stupid reason. And the whole time I told him fuck you.
And while I was talking with a friend she would say "why are you so stubborn? It took an hour of your day dealing with him when you could have just said you were talking with your brother." I shouldn't have to tell him that. He doesn't have the right to know. And I shouldn't have to excuse myself. |
Some people seem to think that our troops are in Afghanistan and Iraq "fighting for our freedom". I disagree. I think what Samadhi did in this situation was truly "fighting for our freedom". Our freedoms are not in jeopardy from anyone in those countries. Our freedoms are jeopardized by our own politicians and authority figures......and apathetic citizens.
Thanks for your service, Sam!
_________________
All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays.
Last edited by Pablo on Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: 1045 |
|
|
| Samadhi wrote: |
License, registration, insurance. "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I really don't and I'm annoyed so I say "I have cruise control and use it so I know I was going 40. I know I'm not drunk so I didn't drive erratically. You're the fascist pig why don't you tell me?" |
There's protecting your rights as a citizen, and then there's just being an asshole. Believe it or not, you can do the first without doing the second. Heck, the guy who got through the TSA checkpoint without being patted down is a pretty good example of it.
I could probably list five reasons a cop could legitimately pull me over that don't have to do with me driving quickly or erratically. Once, I got a flat, put on the temporary tire, and a cop pulled me over because it didn't look road safe. That's fine. I explained to him I didn't need to go far, and he sent me on my way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:12 pm Post subject: 1046 |
|
|
| LordKinbote wrote: |
There's protecting your rights as a citizen, and then there's just being an asshole. Believe it or not, you can do the first without doing the second. |
But it's not possible to do the second AND the first. If you're really protecting your rights, it rules out any possibility that you are being an asshole.
_________________
All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thok*
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject: 1047 |
|
|
| Pablo wrote: |
| If you're really protecting your rights, it rules out any possibility that you are being an asshole. |
Calling somebody a fascist pig before you even know what they want is assholish, not protecting your rights. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:22 am Post subject: 1048 |
|
|
| Pablo wrote: |
| LordKinbote wrote: |
There's protecting your rights as a citizen, and then there's just being an asshole. Believe it or not, you can do the first without doing the second. |
But it's not possible to do the second AND the first. If you're really protecting your rights, it rules out any possibility that you are being an asshole. |
That, my friend, sounds like an awfully convenient way to excuse being an asshole.
But I suppose you're right, if you don't care how you come off in the situation. Since the best way to make sure your rights are protected is to get as many people on your side, well, they say you catch more flies with honey than by being an asshole.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:32 am Post subject: 1049 |
|
|
| Thok* wrote: |
| Pablo wrote: |
| If you're really protecting your rights, it rules out any possibility that you are being an asshole. |
Calling somebody a fascist pig before you even know what they want is assholish, not protecting your rights. |
Informing someone that they are a fascist pig is not being an asshole if they truly are a fascist pig. When a cop asks you why he pulled you over, that usually means he didn't have a legit reason, and is hoping that you'll volunteer something for him. He doesn't even really care if you're causing problems or not; he just wants to write you a ticket, so that his department makes some money. That is fascism, and I think the pig got upset with Sam for calling a spade a spade.
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:11 am Post subject: 1050 |
|
|
| Chaz wrote: |
| Thok* wrote: |
| Pablo wrote: |
| If you're really protecting your rights, it rules out any possibility that you are being an asshole. |
Calling somebody a fascist pig before you even know what they want is assholish, not protecting your rights. |
Informing someone that they are a fascist pig is not being an asshole if they truly are a fascist pig. When a cop asks you why he pulled you over, that usually means he didn't have a legit reason, and is hoping that you'll volunteer something for him. He doesn't even really care if you're causing problems or not; he just wants to write you a ticket, so that his department makes some money. That is fascism, and I think the pig got upset with Sam for calling a spade a spade. |
Do you just call people names and hope that you're right about them on a regular basis? And do you really take their negative reaction to being called names as a sign that you were right all along?
I seriously cannot believe that people are arguing Samadhi was in the right because the cop *may not* have had the best reason for pulling him over. When this board go completely batshit crazy? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mck*
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:22 am Post subject: 1051 |
|
|
cp asked me the other day what I get up to while he's at work, it was something about the pile of used condoms under our bed and the various dudes who answer the phone when he tries to call me during his lunch hour. Can you BELIEVE THAT? I told him to fuck right off, of course. What a fascist pig, trying to violate my right to privacy like that.
Gotta go, postman's gonna be here soon. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pablo
Never Draws a Blank
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:35 am Post subject: 1052 |
|
|
What I'm trying to say here is that our country is going the direction of fascism. Any resistance, in my opinion, is heroic. If one says something in the process of resisting fascism and the deterioration of our American values that is less than tactful or delicate, I'm willing to overlook that in favor of the larger point.
We don't have all the facts of Sam's case, as we've only heard one side of it. But if that cop was stopping him just because he "didn't like the looks of two guys sitting in a car talking", THAT is abuse of authority and a threat to freedom, however small. Sam was heroic in resisting, however he did. Maybe others would have been more polite, but not have done the courageous thing. BFD. Congratulations. You're polite. To me, caving in to the state and turning on the guy who is standing up for all of you, is the real "ass hole" thing to do, and worse, the irresponsible thing to do.
_________________
All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mck*
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:41 am Post subject: 1053 |
|
|
I took the dog down to a park just now, she's learning off-leash discipline so I wanted to let her run around a bit. It was a place I'd never been before and it turns out that it isn't a designated off-leash area. But my dog and I are awesome rebels so it wouldn't have mattered if we HAD known, Lily totally hates The Man (or "Reh Ran" as she calls him)!
So this PIG pulls up in his PIGMOBILE and he's all "excuse me ma'am, but your dog has to be wearing its leash in this area". Well, NOBODY talks to Mackay like that. So I say "Lily, you know what to do", and sure enough she runs up to the PIG and bites through his belt and his pants fall down right there in the middle of the park! I forgot to mention that like three busloads of people had pulled up and gotten out to look at my awesome fuckin' dog, so there's a huge crowd of people around. And I say "excuse me, constable, but you have to be wearing PANTS in this area". Well of course the crowd starts cheering for me and lifts me up on their shoulders. Lily pees on the PIG who's sitting on the ground crying and the crowd cheers some more and lifts HER up on their shoulders too, and they carry us all the way home, making up songs and shit about us as we go. Some of them gave me money, but most just thanked me for protecting them from oppression.
Just thought you guys would enjoy this 100% true story, those pigs will think again before they mess with me.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:48 am Post subject: 1054 |
|
|
| Pablo wrote: |
What I'm trying to say here is that our country is going the direction of fascism. Any resistance, in my opinion, is heroic. If one says something in the process of resisting fascism and the deterioration of our American values that is less than tactful or delicate, I'm willing to overlook that in favor of the larger point.
We don't have all the facts of Sam's case, as we've only heard one side of it. But if that cop was stopping him just because he "didn't like the looks of two guys sitting in a car talking", THAT is abuse of authority and a threat to freedom, however small. Sam was heroic in resisting, however he did. Maybe others would have been more polite, but not have done the courageous thing. BFD. Congratulations. You're polite. To me, caving in to the state and turning on the guy who is standing up for all of you, is the real "ass hole" thing to do, and worse, the irresponsible thing to do. |
Shooting first and asking questions later is not courageous. We only have one side of the story because Samadhi basically told the cop to fuck off WITHIN FIVE SECONDS. Not even *his* side of the story makes him look like a sane person. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mck*
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:27 am Post subject: 1055 |
|
|
I was babysitting my 3-year-old nephew and he was all "Aunty Ellen, let's play cops and robbers". So he put on his cute little police hat and tried to chase me around and "arrest" me. You know, I used to always let him catch me when we played any kind of chasing game, but I've come to the realisation that that is pretty much COMMUNISM. If I can run faster than my toddler nephew, why should I slow down due to his lack of ability? So I just took off as fast as I could and hid, like a real robber would do from the cops. When he started crying that the game wasn't any fun, I said "You're the one who wanted to be a cop, you authoritarian little shit! I bet you don't even have a fucking warrant".
Kids have to learn these things early. I know it's obvious that these posts are blatantly untrue, but I feel the need to emphasise it in this particular case, just in case anyone *actually* thinks I am abusive toward my adorable nephew. NOT TRUE =) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: 1056 |
|
|
So... just so we're on the same page... Do we all agree that:
Sam, minding his own business getting harassed by the police for no good reason then calling that officer a fascist pig = heroic.
Mackay, despite evidence that she's cheating on cp, getting offended when cp asks her about it = assholeish.
Mackay, breaking the law, and then scolding an officer who politely asks her to leash her dog = assholeish.
Mackay abusing her niece (but not really) = assholeish.
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mck*
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: 1057 |
|
|
Just read this story - disappointed at the lack of calling anyone a fascist pig (or any abusive language whatsoever). I bet a few "fuck you"s would have gotten him through faster. Swear words are The Man's secret weakness, it's like sunlight on a vampire. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:55 am Post subject: 1058 |
|
|
| mck* wrote: |
Just read this story - disappointed at the lack of calling anyone a fascist pig (or any abusive language whatsoever). I bet a few "fuck you"s would have gotten him through faster. Swear words are The Man's secret weakness, it's like sunlight on a vampire. |
I totally agree. He could have pushed them over the edge for sure with a few "fascist pigs" remarks. We need more Mackays in this world doing the right things that are so hard to do.
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mck*
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:01 am Post subject: 1059 |
|
|
Thankyou Chaz, I enjoy having my heroism be truly recognised.
On a slightly more serious note, I'd be interested in hearing what Sam thinks is the reason he was pulled over before I form an opinion of his conduct toward the other person in his story. I certainly don't agree with the conclusion that abusive conduct toward another human being is heroic just because they represent OMG GOVERNMENT/LAW, I'd rather hear the "no good reason" first. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mck*
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: 1060 |
|
|
| Chaz wrote: |
| Mackay, breaking the law, and then scolding an officer who politely asks her to leash her dog = assholeish. |
What if I had scolded an officer without having broken the law? Assholeish, or heroic? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Death Mage
Raving Lunatic
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:14 am Post subject: 1061 |
|
|
| LordKinbote wrote: |
Do you just call people names and hope that you're right about them on a regular basis? And do you really take their negative reaction to being called names as a sign that you were right all along?
I seriously cannot believe that people are arguing Samadhi was in the right because the cop *may not* have had the best reason for pulling him over. When this board go completely batshit crazy? |
Many years ago, Pablo pointed to a blog entry his wife had made, complaining about how speeding tickets were complete bullshit, nothing but a money grab, and the police were essencially evil incarnate for enforcing speeding laws.
She was going 40 in a 25, residential zone.
Some members on this site have been bat-shit crazy since day one.
_________________
* These senseless ramblings brought to you by Insanity™. If you just can't figure the dang thing out, it must be Insanity™.
[YOUR AD HERE!] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: 1062 |
|
|
| Thok* wrote: |
| Pablo wrote: |
| If you're really protecting your rights, it rules out any possibility that you are being an asshole. |
Calling somebody a fascist pig before you even know what they want is assholish, not protecting your rights. |
Oh yessa massa, thank you for pulling me over. One of my high school friends that I was in karate with (AMAZING guy. Show him something once and he gets it.*) Far nicer than I am too. He's a cop with Clovis PD. Thats a city north of Fresno but meshed into it like a lot of cities in LA are. I would have used that line on him if he pulled me over for BS. For the record "you're the fascist pig, you tell me" is from some comedians stand up. I don't remember who. I've always wanted to say it.
| LordKinbote wrote: |
| I could probably list five reasons a cop could legitimately pull me over that don't have to do with me driving quickly or erratically. |
You're correct. And this doesn't bother you because? It sounds you saying "I can think of at least five reasons a cop could come into my house without cause."
*When I first started training he helped me and it's a good thing he had a cup because almost ever kick I did went straight to his groin. *cough* "sorry sorry" rinse repeat
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: 1063 |
|
|
| mck* wrote: |
| Chaz wrote: |
| Mackay, breaking the law, and then scolding an officer who politely asks her to leash her dog = assholeish. |
What if I had scolded an officer without having broken the law? Assholeish, or heroic? |
That would have been me. And I say neither. If he'd said "I pulled you over because X" I would have been much different. He was fishing. And that pisses me off because it means he didn't have a real reason to pull me over and he's wasting my mothafuckin time.
I just had a really good talk with my brother and from what I can tell that's why I got pulled over. Because he's in a shit hole like the one I was in La Mesa. My best guess, since he wanted to search my trunk and the whole car, is that he thought I was buying drugs. I hope my brother takes care of his bills and moves out of there.
I was being brief here, but I rattled off to a friend as soon as I got home. Here's that account
| Quote: |
After hanging out for about 30 minutes with John in back? of his apartment complex I drove off. I was pulled over a bit after Blackstone (I'm guessing he wanted to make sure I wasn't on the freeway). I know there is no reason to be pulled over. My tags are right, I'm driving fine because I *know* I'm not drunk and I use cruise control to go the speed limit. So I'm a bit annoyed. So after he does the license/registration bs and he asks "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I say "I have cruise control and use it so I know I was going 40. I know I'm not drunk so I didn't drive erratically. You're the fascist pig why don't you tell me?" (this is where the opera guy from Scrubs comes out and sings Miiiissssstaaaaake!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or8UhztOSH4
So he gets me out of the car, I'm not going to refuse that order, I know I'd get tased. He asked me to do sobriety tests I told him to just breathalizer me because it's a waste of both our times to do the tests. Then he starts quizzing me about being in front (back) of John's apartment for 30 minutes. This is where I started to get pissed.
(this is as close as I can remember)
Cop: " What were you doing in back of XXX [the name of the complex I don't remember it]?"
Me: "None of your business."
Cop: "It's all of my business you were there for at least 30 minutes."
Me: "And?"
Cop: "Would you mind if I searched your car?"
*pause* I'm trying to get where he's going with this...just baffled
Me: "You know the areas you're allowed to search I'm not giving you permission for more."
Cop: "Can I look in your trunk?"
Me: "Did I stutter?"
Cop: "What?"
Me: "I told you already that you can't." (for the record besides the dead body all I have in there are some DVDs....damn I should have said that)
Cop: "What'd you score there? Meth?"
Me: bwaaaa "What?"
Cop: "Open your trunk, I have probable cause." (at this point I'm volcaic mad. but john's seen this, I get cold and focused. I'm like my mom that way)
Me: "Fuck you. You open it." I had him my keys.
Me: "And you're full of shit you don't have probable cause you have reasonable suspicion at best and for what, I have no clue."
*he walks to the back*
Me: "Before you open that give me your badge number because I'm going to sue you if you open my trunk."
Cop: "What are you so afraid of me seeing?" (he's smiling)
Me: "Nothing." I smile back.
Big pause. He stared me down for a bit and then looked me up and down, I don't know what sign he was looking for but he said ok and tossed me back my keys (Aha! he was probably testing me there. Nice trick)
Cop: "On your way. Don't go there again."
????
WTF goes on in my brother's complex? |
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 am Post subject: 1064 |
|
|
One sided to be sure. And I'm sure he just wanted to make sure my puppy was on a leash.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
groza528
No Place Like Home
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:34 am Post subject: 1065 |
|
|
| I'm torn as to whether the "correct" answer to "Do you know why I pulled you over?" is "I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it may incriminate me." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:45 am Post subject: 1066 |
|
|
You're the fascist pig you tell me?
From what chaz was saying I think I'm right (and not just ornery*). It's basically telling him "Did you pull me over for something I did wrong or are you fishing?" And cops should not have the right to waste my time like that. I know it's a boring job until action happens but don't create action on me.
*lonesome and mean
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AcidFast
Daedalian Member
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: 1067 |
|
|
Sam, I'm glad we have the whole story now - I was wondering what the hell it was all about.
My opinion is this: First of all, I think cops routinely ask if you know why they pulled you over. I am not sure why, but I can't imagine that it's devious or anything - I think to read something sinister into that question is a tad paranoid.
Also, without knowing the reason for the stop, it was pretty dick-ish to respond with the fascist pig comment. After the whole story unfolded, I could get behind that comment, but before anything, it was belligerent and uncalled for.
As for the way the whole story played out, Sam, I applaud you. I think your actions after having to get out of the car are brave and appropriate and I doubt I would have had the balls to do the same (although I would definitely have wanted to).
I was stopped by a cop once while running to meet my girlfriend (I was really late....) and before I had anything explained to me, they held me (not physically, just told me not to move) on the street. The cop made a call on his radio, and I heard a conversation that was clarifying the description of a suspect in a nearby robbery. I partially fit the description of the suspect, but the radio conversation clarified that it was unlikely to be me. They checked my ID, took down my info, and let me go. I think that this is a similar situation (before the reason comes clear), and I can't imagine making a remark like that before knowing what the stop was all about - and, in my eyes, the stop was justified (in my story, not so much in Sam's.)
By the way, I think that comparing a traffic stop to coming into your house without reason is a huge stretch (operating a motor vehicle on public roads where people walk and also operate vehicles is a privelege, not a right - and a far cry from the right to privacy). Searching your car would be a much closer approximation to coming into your house, but still a little stretch (you don't have to physically enter a car to search it).
_________________
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead
True story |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thok*
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: 1068 |
|
|
| Samadhi wrote: |
| Oh yessa massa, thank you for pulling me over. |
Nope, still assholish.
He may not deserve respect because he's a cop, but he deserves to be treated with a little respect because he's a human being.
(And there's a practical reason as well; if you don't insult him in your first response, he probably lets you leave sooner while you get the same result.
I also find it weird that a breathalizer test doesn't trigger your privacy issues, but telling him you were visiting with your brother does. But apparently I'm not an expert on privacy calculus.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: 1069 |
|
|
| mck* wrote: |
| Chaz wrote: |
| Mackay, breaking the law, and then scolding an officer who politely asks her to leash her dog = assholeish. |
What if I had scolded an officer without having broken the law? Assholeish, or heroic? |
Heroic. At least as heroic as the people who first started standing up to the SS in Nazi Germany. If you're being polite to someone who is violating your rights, then that's benevolent and all, but no matter how you treat them, if you're standing up to them when they try to violate your rights, then it's heroic.
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Antrax
ESL Student
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:30 am Post subject: 1070 |
|
|
Most of Mackay's posts on this page are brilliant.
Shooting the messenger may be satisfying, but it's also cowardly and ill-advised. One day you'll run into a cop who's really a fascist pig and he'll arrest you for some bullshit cause, and you may think you'll sue him, win and end up a big hero, but I seriously doubt you will.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:32 am Post subject: 1071 |
|
|
@Acid: Thanks. You know I spent some time in the military, not nearly as arduous as what you've done. But I know that following orders serves a purpose and generally, unless I know more than the person in charge I should go ahead and follow the order. But quizzing on me. I've been through a lot of bullshit forced on me by the state so I think I'll always answer Fuck You. None of your business.
Sometimes I feel like Will. I'm me and government is the step dad.
| Quote: |
Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."
Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.
Will: I used to go with the wrench.
Sean: Why?
Will: Cause fuck him, that' why. |
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: 1072 |
|
|
| Acidfast wrote: |
| My opinion is this: First of all, I think cops routinely ask if you know why they pulled you over. I am not sure why, but I can't imagine that it's devious or anything - I think to read something sinister into that question is a tad paranoid. |
That's not entirely true. I've talked to plenty of cops behind the scenes, and they all say that they use this line to try to coax the perp into admitting something... for example, if the driver says "because I was going ten miles over the limit?" That's case closed. Write him a ticket and send him on his way. You think they'd cut you a break, but they just don't. They only care about getting convictions and meeting numbers. Remember that Miranda doesn't apply to traffic stops, so they cops can't force you to be a witness against yourself, but they can ask you.
If you talk to a lawyer, the first thing they say is "don't say anything ever!" This is because the fifth amendment exists, but it's been weakened severely by Miranda rights; they seem like a good thing, but they're actually just a play-book for cops to say the bare minimum possible in order to get around the fifth amendment rights.
| Thok* wrote: |
| (And there's a practical reason as well; if you don't insult him in your first response, he probably lets you leave sooner while you get the same result. |
Thok... if you're fine with letting them treat you poorly, then the terrorist wins. If he's going to be a fascist pig, then he needs to be told that he's a fascist pig. It's even possible that he doesn't realize that he's a fascist pig.
| Thok* wrote: |
| I also find it weird that a breathalizer test doesn't trigger your privacy issues, but telling him you were visiting with your brother does. But apparently I'm not an expert on privacy calculus.) |
The legalities of a breathalyser are a bit more tricky. Even if a driver fails the breathalyser and blood tests, if a cop doesn't have evidence from a field sobriety test, there's a good chance he won't get a conviction. However, a blood screen could exonerate you even if you lack the coordination to pass a field test. Sam was basically saying "I think that you think that I've been drinking, so break out your breathalyser and you'll see that I haven't been drinking, so there is no money here for you [, you fascist piece of shit piglet.]"
| Death Mage wrote: |
Many years ago, Pablo pointed to a blog entry his wife had made, complaining about how speeding tickets were complete bullshit, nothing but a money grab, and the police were essencially evil incarnate for enforcing speeding laws.
She was going 40 in a 25, residential zone. |
Wasn't there more to this story? I think the "residential zone" was an area where people are constantly going forty. I remember it being a street which needs to have the speed limit increased, but they won't, because they're making so much money off of the n00bs who get pwnd there. It's actually a perfect example of fascism.
--------------------------------------------------------
Sam, you handled it brilliantly. Especially when he asked you to open your trunk and you handed him the keys and then let him know that you would be suing him. That was perfect police corralling. He knows our rights, and which of them he can justify violating, and which of them he has to get us to volunteer up.
It's our responsibility to make sure that we never volunteer up any of our rights, or we will, most assuredly, lose them.
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:35 am Post subject: 1073 |
|
|
| Antrax wrote: |
Most of Mackay's posts on this page are brilliant.
Shooting the messenger may be satisfying, but it's also cowardly and ill-advised. One day you'll run into a cop who's really a fascist pig and he'll arrest you for some bullshit cause, and you may think you'll sue him, win and end up a big hero, but I seriously doubt you will. |
It's not about a win for me Antrax. I don't want to sue anyone I just want to be left alone. And you're not exactly arguing for reasonable government here. Seems like you're arguing that the government will do what it wants so don't bother. Just go along to get along.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: 1074 |
|
|
| Antrax wrote: |
Most of Mackay's posts on this page are brilliant.
Shooting the messenger may be satisfying, but it's also cowardly and ill-advised. One day you'll run into a cop who's really a fascist pig and he'll arrest you for some bullshit cause, and you may think you'll sue him, win and end up a big hero, but I seriously doubt you will. |
I agree with this, except the part where Sam thinks he'll win; I think he knows that he will lose.
That's why he's a hero.
[edit to add]
I adamantly disagree that Mackay's lame strawmen where brilliant. They weren't even good strawmen. They were stick figures.
_________________
The enemy's base is down.
Last edited by Chaz on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:41 am Post subject: 1075 |
|
|
Thok: It's a requirement of state law that as getting your privilege to drive you agree before hand that you will admit to a breathalizer or blood test (your choice). If I refused that I would lose my license. Forcing that issue IMO got through a lot of wasted time.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Antrax
ESL Student
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:44 am Post subject: 1076 |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Seems like you're arguing that the government will do what it wants so don't bother. |
Not really, no. I was arguing that your attitude, beyond being unkind (what others dubbed asshole-ish) is also not pragmatic. It "succeeds" as long as you abuse the nice people, and once you get unlucky and try to abuse someone who really deserves it, you'll get ass raped, possibly literally. So by definition all it does is possibly let off steam at the expense of someone who's just trying to make a living. That's why I never yell at customer service reps, for instance. Some of them work for evil companies, but they don't set policy.
| Quote: |
I think he knows that he will lose.
That's why he's a hero. |
I hope you're wrong. While it's very noble to die for a cause, I think causes generally appreciate people actually trying to do things that'll advance them. Maybe it's just my causes.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:47 am Post subject: 1077 |
|
|
By the way.... THIS:
| Quote: |
| Cop: "On your way. Don't go there again." |
Gets me hopping mad. Who the fuck gave him the authority to decide whether or not Sam can go visit his brother? Or was it a veiled threat of some kind? In any event, how is that not a evil by anyone's standards?
You can misjudge Sam's initial reactions all you want, but Sam had this guys number from the start.
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Antrax
ESL Student
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: 1078 |
|
|
The other day a cop told me "good morning". What a douche, he can't tell me what kind of morning I'm having!
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Samadhi
+1
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: 1079 |
|
|
Chaz: I think he was a good guy. And smart. The key toss thing was pretty good. And I think he's just trying to do his job. But like you said I don't think he knows he's being a dick. There was no reason for him to pull me over. I've been law abiding even on laws I disagree with since I got out of the Navy. I think I should have the right to say fuck you to someone wasting my time because.....I really am not sure why the hell he pulled me over. Maybe it was having a heart to heart with my brother. Maybe he thought I was buying drugs, I don't know. But he had no reason to pull me over. He wasted my time because he has the power to waste my time.
_________________
And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaz
Vote: Zag
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: 1080 |
|
|
| Antrax wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Seems like you're arguing that the government will do what it wants so don't bother. |
Not really, no. I was arguing that your attitude, beyond being unkind (what others dubbed asshole-ish) is also not pragmatic. It "succeeds" as long as you abuse the nice people, and once you get unlucky and try to abuse someone who really deserves it, you'll get ass raped, possibly literally. So by definition all it does is possibly let off steam at the expense of someone who's just trying to make a living. That's why I never yell at customer service reps, for instance. Some of them work for evil companies, but they don't set policy.
| Quote: |
I think he knows that he will lose.
That's why he's a hero. |
I hope you're wrong. While it's very noble to die for a cause, I think causes generally appreciate people actually trying to do things that'll advance them. Maybe it's just my causes. |
Some officers are well meaning, but they honestly don't know that they're being fascist pigs. They think they're doing a service to their country by following their orders. As soon as you point it out to them, they start to see that what they're doing is evil incarnate. I suppose it would be more effective if Sam had a pamphlet on why the cop is a fascist pig, but I imagine the insult would be just as meaningful.
HEY! SAM! Let's make up pamphlets which explain why a cop searching a vehicle is wrong and makes them fascist pigs. We could hide these pamphlets in our trunks.
_________________
The enemy's base is down. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
