Death Eater Mafia - Death Eaters Win

[Sentran]

Can we please just lynch Chaz now? His strongest defense thus far is that without him we'll be more bored due to less posts, not that he's a good player, or even well-reasoned. I think his primary vendetta against me is a combination of OMGUS for wanting him dead, and because I post nearly as much as he does, but with intelligent thought behind mine.

For the record, I ask no one else to post their roles, but I am Draco Malfoy. Deal with it.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Chaz]

Crucio Sentran!

For the record, I think inspiring conversation is good playing. It gives mafia a chance to hide, and a chance to screw up. It links people together. It makes the game interesting. It muddies the water just enough that it's an interesting game, and not a calculation/number crunch. It's not just about post count, Sentran; there's more to inspiring conversation. You have to throw out crazy theories, ignore sound logic in favor of something more interesting (and less likely to be perpetuated by scum.)

People sometimes forget that, in this game, mafia has more info about the setup than any townie would. They can plan the best strategies, and steer the game the most effectively. It's fine to use logic when it comes down to the end game, but nobody will chime in on bickering about who's committing the most scum tells.

Scum tells almost always "in retrospect." It's very rare that a scum-tell tells us who scum is; they usually tell us who scum was.

Basically, stop getting so caught up trying to lynch me (just because I bested you in Amb's last game), and start having some fun.
Unless you think it's fun to lynch me I guess.... then keep up the good work--though I still think you'll be extremely bored if I'm not here to argue with you.
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The enemy's base is down.

[Quailman]

[Chaz]

Isn't that pretty much exactly what I said?

(with regards to the pun/palindrome thing)

[Zag]

Do my eyes deceive me or is that a conciliatory post coming from Chaz? Now THAT is totally out of character, both for him and for whatever role-playing he might be doing. It makes me tempted to bring the hammer down on such a mudblood, Hufflepuff-ish, simpering fool. However, as entertaining as it would be to see him squirm under a group Cruciatus Curse with a nice Avada Kedavra finish, I still find some of his arguments to be reasonable.

Sentran, you set a dangerous precedent. You squirm in your muggle way to say that you weren't, in fact, calling for a mass claim, but you did suggest it. Even such suggestions are dangerous Ravenclaw talk. You making your own claim so easily is foolish and dangerous, and makes me wonder if you are simply one of those stinking Griffindors using a polyjuice potion. (That is, it makes me wonder if you were given a safe claim by the mod.) As always, I caution everyone not to make claims -- all it does is give the spy information on who might have a nighttime activity, since typically only vanilla players will claim -- vanilla, that is, and filthy spies.

Out of character, because I can't think of a way to say this in character:
Quail, I was also suspicious of your talk of a restriction, but that clears it up, I think. It does make me a tiny bit more suspicious of Chaz. Considering how completely on top of GL he always is, it is quite likely that he saw the mod's post with the restriction before it was edited, and is just stirring up trouble.

Or maybe I'm just being too suspicious. Do you know how long the restriction post was there?

[raekuul]

Long enough for Quail to see it

[Quailman]

I posted six minutes after it went up, and after the screen came back up, it had been changed. The next post was by someone else about an hour later.

[Zag]

So it's actually pretty unlikely that Chaz saw it. Aww, well. Another great anti-Chaz theory goes up in smoke.

I've gone at him pretty hard in the last two games and was wrong both times, so I'm hesitant to do it again. On the other hand, maybe third time's the charm. If I keep at it, I've got to be right eventually.

So tempting... I could just type "vote Chaz," select it, hit the bold button. It's right there under my fingertips. I'd get him back for ruining my first time playing a cop. I was so mad. And then he vig'ed me. Oh, I really want to.

[Chaz]

[oor]I didn't see the restriction. I saw that rae said "Bad Puns(1) Quail" and then Quail said he was tempted to lynch me to end the restriction. I figured something had happened via PM between rae and Quail.[/oor]

I do agree with Zag about Sentran's prodding. The Dark Lord specifically asked us not to reveal ourselves to the spy, and He must have had a good reason for doing so. I don't know why Sentran thinks he might know better than The Dark Lord, but I imagine he may need to know who we are to harm us. Perhaps he's testing the water to see which of us is likely to join him?

(Out of role translation: I think Sentran is prodding for info on our roles, because his role would benefit from knowing who's who. I think raekuul gave us a heads up, in the opening post, to keep our identities secret.)
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The enemy's base is down.

[Sniklac16]

Personally i was hesitant at the beginning to vote for Chaz simply because I thought he did a really good job in last two games. But now it just seems hes talking nonsense. He seems to be overly selling the fact that hes a loyal death eater, but it seems to me that hes a spy. Im still reluctant to bring the hammer down though until im a little more certain
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Sentran]

While I am very tempted not to give Chaz the satisfaction of rising to his baiting (of which he appears to be a master), I will explain.
1. My impression was that the opening post was more for flavor than an indication that we were not to reveal our roles at all.
2.

[equestrian]

Maybe im wrong but isnt it obviosu that scum might already be voting for Chaz? Because if they weren't he would already been lynched because hes at L-1 again

[Sentran]

[Sentran]

I would like to add that the only reason I didn't vote for Chaz last game is that I was scum, and he's much more useful to the scum than the town.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Undercover Monk]

See this is why I was ok with putting Chaz at L-1. Look at the firestorm my action caused. We completely skipped the random vote stage. That being said it is Chaz posts that have mucked up the thread. But to answer one accusation...

You call my theory of lynching new or poor players first stupid and illogical. Are you saying we should lynch the likes of Jedo or Sentran or Quailman. Each has posted logically and consistently. I post to infrequently and you and MNOWAX post so much thats its hard to distinguish sound advice from the insane rants.

Someone has to be lynched day 1. And it is very hard to get any good info til day 2 dawns and we have at least one dead body to examine what they wrote. Unless someone makes a huge error my vote will stay on people who in my personal opinion the town could do without. You are one on that list and MNOWAX was lynched first last game so....that is why I put you at L-1.

to answer Jedo's cry of that being a try for a quick lynch. I would point out I did that 2 pages ago and Chaz is not yet lynched. For a quick lynch its taking a real long time. It was my move that got the town its info today.
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Chaz]

[out of role version]
Either Monk and Sentran are idiots, or I'm not making myself clear at all because I keep dropping and out of role, so I'm going to make two posts. This one, which is out of role, and the next one, which will be in character. Maybe seeing them side by side will be better.

@Sentran: Yes I'm pushing the fact that I'm a loyal death eater. That's what role-playing is; that's why it's fun. I don't really think The Dark Lord has commanded us not to reveal our roles; I think revealing our roles will give the spy information that we should probably be keeping to ourselves (since he is a spy, and spies need something to report.) It's also possible that just having our role names will give the spy the info he needs to cast an imperious curse, or obliterate, or legilimancy, or occlumency, or Dark Lord knows what else. Mostly, I think it's way too soon to be advocating role claims. The only time role claims should be called for is when you (or me, or whoever is calling for the role claims) has a legitimate theory about what the roles might mean.

@Monk: I'm not advocating the lynching of anybody. I'm advocating that we get people talking, so we have something to analyze later. The way you want to play mafia, is so sterile and pointless, that you might as well play against a computer simulation. You can't deduce who is and isn't mafia based on who they voted for, and it's a ridiculously short-sighted idea that you can. Most often, mafia is very careful not to do anything. So far every game MNO and I have played in, he was CONVINCED AND KNEW that I was scum, and he's been wrong every damn time.

It's easy to guess who was scum after the game ends, but we need to find a way to do it before the game is over.

Generally speaking, I think it's best to go after the quite players to get them to talk. If someone isn't talking, then what's the point of letting them live? They're either scum and lying low--so they need to be killed, or they're boring and I don't want to play mafia with them.

What's the point in playing mafia if we're just going to roll dice for our votes (avoiding the people who are on our teams when we have a team) or just vote for whoever is the newest/poorest (which, again, is subjective) player? Honestly, why wouldn't it be the same amount of fun to play against a sim in that case?
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The enemy's base is down.

[Chaz]

[in role post]
Sentran and Monk, you disgust me. The Dark Lord does not question my loyalty. Do you know more than The Dark Lord? Do you pretend to see things that He does not?

You advocate killing me without discussion. Are you worried that discussion would unearth your treason?

You advocate stripping off our cloaks and showing the spies who each of us are. Why are we wearing cloaks in the first place?

You disgust me. Both of you. You're lucky Potty is able to block the Dark Lord, or I'm certain you'd both making a feeble run for your feeble lives.
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The enemy's base is down.

[Undercover Monk]

Wow Chaz I have found a new found respect for you. Which Im sure will be oblitirated when you hide these very good facts behind your crazy idea that roleplaying will help us find scum.

yes my approach to mafia is cold logical and sterile. It is this cold calculating approach that allows me to stay 1 step ahead of the mafia. I tend to be very paranoid as both townie and mafia. Trying to see every possible outcome. Thats why, in the last game, when I was told MNOWAX was my mason partner I jumped to the worst possible scenario. I put forth my ideas as bluntly and honestly as I can. Logic is how this game is won not through roleplay. If you want that you should try the forum two websites down the hall. I hear they are playing dungeons and dragons every tuesday night.

If every post of yours was like that I would not be voting for you. Its not your ideas that are hurtful to the town but the manner in which you present them. Savvy
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

yep all that wasted inteligence wasted cause you are playing a role. let the mod provide the flavor and focus on catching scum. Maybe then you wouldnt find yourself at L-1.

Does anyone agree with me or am I the only one who finds roleplaying a distraction.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Zag]

While I can't speak for Chaz, for my own part I've been adding the role-playing for fun, not because I think it will help. On the other hand, I've tried hard not to obscure my message because of it, and even stepped completely out of character for one point that I couldn't make in character.

(And I do spend a lot of time "down the hall" at http://rpol.net.)

[Zag]

My closing period broke the URL. It should have been http://rpol.net

[Quailman]

If I say I agree with you someone will accuse us of being in cahoots, so I won't. But I do.

[Quailman]

Zag posted 2x while I was typing. I was replying to UM.

[Chaz]

[out]
Perhaps I'll start each post with [out] or [in] so you'll know what I'm doing?

Role playing is extremely distracting for sure, but that's what makes it all the more fun. The point of mafia isn't so much to win or lose the game, but how you win or lose the game.

Yes, it's fun to win... but sometimes it's even more fun to juggle insane theories. I don't "believe" most of what I post in a mafia game (it's ridiculous, mostly), but I post from a perspective that I do believe in it. I, literally, convince myself that it's true so I can have more fun playing the game.

Not that there's anything wrong with the way you play. It just seems sterile to me. I'd rather have some fun with the game than figure the game out. Nor am I going to simmer down just because being crazy might get me lynched; like I said, I don't want to play if it's going to be a computer simulation. I don't need other live players to play out a simulation.

In Sopranos mafia, Amb was God-Father, and he lynched himself. His team ended up losing, but it was SO spectacular, that the vig (me) ended up killing the doc. That was a fun game. Sentran even stayed in "town" character long after he'd been (technically) lynched. Yes, it was obvious that Amb and Sentran were mafia when I re-read the thread after the game was over... it's always obvious after the game is over.

As for who should get lynched today... I don't know. But I do think I've made enough posts that there shouldn't be any pressure on me anymore. I've done enough things that it should be obvious "who's side I'm on" by the final day. Move the pressure to another player who hasn't taken a firm stance yet. Like Sentran!
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The enemy's base is down.

[Chaz]

[out]

[Undercover Monk]

except the point of the game is to figure it out.

This idea that having fun and playing to win are mutualy exclusive is what is wrong with America today.

Lets give everyone the same trophy so the kids who lost dont feel bad. Lets divide the state basketball tournament into 4 tournaments so the big schools dont beat up on the little schools. Lets be careful what we say so we dont offend anyone.

Amb decided to lynch himself cause he thought it would help him. It almost did. You had a 50/50 chance. You got lucky cause Amb TRIED to win.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Zag]

UM has convinced me. I was trying to overcome my own issues with Chaz, thinking that I shouldn't let my personal results influence my actions for the good of the town. But UM reminded me that, in Johnny Depp Mafia, the mafia won directly because of Chaz's actions, and in Sopranos Mafia, the town won in spite of Chaz's actions. As a townie, his contributions have not been positive.

I realize that, when he was finally lynched in the Depp Mafia game, he was, in fact, pointing out the scum correctly. But he had changed around so much and had so many crazy theories -- it was only luck that he was lynched at the time when his theory of the moment was correct. If they had waited another day or two, he probably would have moved on to a different theory.

So maybe he's the traitor to our Lord, or maybe he just likely to be an inadvertent traitor, but I feel good that unvote, vote Chaz will be beneficial to the town.

[Undercover Monk]

the point of theme mafia is the mod posts a story in a theme. Ive never played DoD so I cant comment on it. roleplaying is not bad. roleplaying IN mafia is bad.
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Zag]

I will continue to disagree with that, UM. But I will agree that anything that distracts from analysis is bad, including role-playing. However, as long as you can say what you want to say in character, there's no harm in it.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Zag]

How do you know that there is only one? Is it you?

For the record, I did have Chaz on my FOS list, for, I think, good reasons. While I admit that what pushed me over the edge to vote for him is his past anti-town behavior (when a townie) I also think that there's a good chance he's our genuine traitor (or one of them -- I don't buy your "only one" theory) in this game.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Oh. My. God. You guys seriously don't read.

[Chaz]

Well, thanks to Zaggy Potter's intense stupidity, this will be a very boring game.

[Zag]

Well, I'm glad you said so, Chaz, 'cause hammering you was fun. Actually, as someone who is very competitive, I also have a strong hope and belief that it was also the right thing for the Death Eaters. (Obviously, Jedo doesn't think so, the mudblood.)

Anyway, Jedo, I have to admit that you were right about the single scum. I had missed that. Well, if I was right about Chaz, then this will be a quick game!

[Chaz]

If you were right about me, it would have been a very boring game!

It's going to be a boring game anyway if I'm not here, but at least I still have a chance to win the game as a loyal death eater.
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The enemy's base is down.

[MNOWAX]

I have two long days at work, and Chaz is not lynched yet? WHAT GIVES????
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Sentran]

[Chaz]

You always think I'm the spy. It's pointless to say it every game.
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The enemy's base is down.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Undercover Monk]

To jedo: didnt raekuul also say lynch the spy and those helping him. thats why I thought there could be 2.

also if you dont like policy day 1 lynches could you please give us some evidence of foul play not based on disagreements on how you handle day 1. Your only evidence against me and Zag is that you dont like how we play the game. Thats the same reason we are voting Chaz. So my question to you is how are you any different?

To Chaz: you didnt read what I wrote. Winning is not everything. TRYING to win is everything. As long as everyone tries to win without cheating I am totally fine with losing.

I am a very competitive person. I love games. I dont care if I lose 9/10 times just playing my hardest to win is the fun part. Sports in America used to be about giving it your all in pursuit of victory. Now its about victory.

I agree with about 90% of what you said in post 113. so I think you misunderstood me. but I digress this is a topic for off-topic not mafia.
[/b]
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning