Death Eater Mafia - Death Eaters Win

[Zag]

Wow. I really would rather people didn't do that. If we don't find the right lynch tonight, you might as well shoot yourself, UM.

However, not that I'm complaining or anything, but why does your role-blocking me clear me? Typically, role-blocking does not prevent Mafia night-kills, it only prevents their extra abilities that they might have. (And I'm a little offended that you chose me to block, but that's the game. ) I believe your claim, but I am sorry to say that I don't think it clears me. (I don't think I needed it, either, but there it is.)

There is one interesting point from it, though. If we have a role-blocker, that means that the spies have a power role that can be blocked. From raekuul's post about Snape, he didn't have any ability like that (assuming we trust he told us all of it), so the remaining spy should have some night-time ability (or raekuul is just messin' with your head, which isn't out of the question). Maybe he gets some night-time information or something. I suddenly find myself suspicious, after all, of Sentran's sudden declaration about Jedo. Is something else going on, there? (But I'll stick with my interpretation of that, for now.)

Snik, as I said above, my suspicion of you is not so much what you did, but what you didn't do -- you didn't vote lynching for the spy. I find it unlikely that anyone would have bussed his partner in the first night, including putting him at L-1 (which both Quail and UM did). As I said above, of the three of you I most suspect wordy, but it's pretty close. I am getting more suspicious of him the longer he doesn't post, because I know he has posted elsewhere on GL today. (But there is a lot to catch up on, so maybe that's the issue.) Anyway, I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but I just doubt the other spy is anyone who voted for Chaz, and there are only the three of you.

Everything everyone says is fluff, and can be faked by a good enough player. The only real facts we have to go on are the votes and any information that we get from power roles that we trust. My best interpretation of the facts says that it is one of you three. That could be wrong, but that's the best I have to go with.

[Zag]

Ha ha! (Oops, I shouldn't say that because someone got suspicious of equestrian when she did.) ...

Ha ha! Now I get it. UM, your claim, indirectly, cleared things up for me, and I'm taking Jedo off my suspicion list. It's good to have another vote we can count on. Now let's just lynch the spy and be done with it.

[Sentran]

I intend to do a bit of analysis on the thread later today, to see if anything (or anyone) stands out as suspicious. Of course, those can always be skewed by the person doing the analysis, so I recommend that anyone else interested in justice do the same.

I'm still leaning towards Snik, due to the vehemence with which he defends himself. It's one thing to say "That's not true, I'm not scum." It's quite another to reply with "How dare you even think to accuse me! This is why I voted that way, and this is why I'm not scum, and now I'm voting you because you voted me or even suspected me!" It just seems a bit desperate to me.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Undercover Monk]

I should be more specific. though I am calling my role a role-blocker. I was simply told I can cancel the actions of any player I choose. So I assume that includes night kills and is why I claimed. with no doc I still have a 50/50 chance of surviving. And remember there is one other townie with a power role the spy cant get both of us. So I would like to hear from MNOWAX and Jedo who they think should be lynched. Vote:Snicklac16 til I hear from them.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Zag]

I said I would vote for whoever of the wimpy three (now the wimpy two) gets the most votes, so vote: Sniklac

[Sniklac16]

Dammit you guys...gonna make me have to claim so we can at least try for a spy im, and i dont know why i was given this name, narcissa malfoy doctor
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Sentran]

[Zag]

I'm not utterly convinced it is a real claim, but I had wordcross higher on my list, anyway, and only moved for solidarity.

unvote. vote: wordcross

[Undercover Monk]

yeah I wasnt suspecting a doc and would be surprised if Narcissa was in the game as she was never a confirmed deatheater. However It should be easy to silence you if you are speaking lies. So sorry wordcross buts its for the good of the town. as long as we are all on the sam page. MNOWAX, I assume you are the sheriff, (If thats not the case tell us why you cleared jedo). MNOWAX investigate snicklac16. Snicklac protect MNOWAX. I will roleblock Sentran.

If MNOWAX dies we will know snick is lying and kill our last scum.

If I die then MNOWAX will reveal if snick is telling the truth. If he is Jedo is scum GF

If no one dies then Sentran is our last scum.

Unvote I will let MNOWAX vote before I hammer so we are sure everyone knows what they are doing. Does anyone see any problems with my logic

wait i see the problem spy can cause a no kill 2 ways
i block or they choose MNOWAX knowing snick is telling the truth. But i still think this is the best bet we have. Suggestions???
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Sentran]

UM, I have to spend a bit of time going through all of your logic to make sure it works out. I know I'm not scum, but I have no ability to prove it beyond what I've already stated. Therefore, if there is a scum that has managed to go under the radar thus far and chooses not to kill tonight, you've already set me up to be lynched tomorrow. You are also trying to direct pretty much all of the power roles. I'd just like to say in advnace that IF word turns out innocent, and IF nobody gets lynched tonight, and IF the town decides to go ahead and lynch me, I hope everyone will turn on UM when I come up innocent.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Jedo the Jedi]

There are three town power roles against two spies? No way. Who is a liar? One of the Chaz lynchers.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Undercover Monk]

I agree jedo but I refuse to vote a claimed cop or doc. like I said If you guys see a better way to work the numbers please suggest it.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[raekuul]

[raekuul]

Wordcross - 2 (Zag, Sentran)
Undercover Monk - 2 (MNOWAX, Jedo the Jedi)
Sentran - 1 (Sniklac)

[Sniklac16]

Well I believe wordcross to be innocent, so I would not vote for him. Personally I believe Sentran is the most suspicious for voting for almost every player already and still suspicious of UM even more so because hes telling me who to protect like they might be in league together, but for now my vote stays
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Undercover Monk]

Oh the doc doesnt want to protect the sheriff. Well thats not suspicious at all??

seriously I said if you had a better idea to give it.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Sniklac16]

Did I miss something? Where did mnowax claim to be the cop?
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[MNOWAX]

i think its pretty obvious.

I'm cool with the plan, but then again, I'm not all that happy to leave my life in the hands of a claimed doc.

I'm a fan of the Sentran Lynch. I still suspect UM and possibly Word, but Sentran is top.

Unvote, Vote: Sentran
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Sentran]

Well, that's two wanting my head. Just remember that WHEN I come up innocent, look at who was most emphatically calling for my death. MNO has been suspiciously quiet this entire game, and now calls me the top of his suspect list? MNO was in favor of a Chaz lynch, but as has been guessed by others, that could have been a distancing tactic gone awry. Those are the main reasons I was not including him among the semi-confirmed town in my previous suppositions.
What are the odds that Rae would set up a 9 person game with 3 scum and 3 power roles for town? I'm sure others have played in more of his games than I have, and I'm trying to get a feel for the mod style.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Sentran]

[Zag]

Well, you've managed to hit everybody. For the record, no, I'm not a spy.

Let's look at what you're suggesting:
One (you're suggesting both) of the spies did not know who the other one was. We have a cop, doc, and role-blocker. AND, something it seems no one else has noticed, we have Voldemort who is immune to the spies' night-kills -- he has a permanent doc effect!

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Sentran]

Another possibility that occurred to me is that there could be two allies to the spy, who are aware of each other but not who the spy was. In that case, the best option would be for one of them to vote for Chaz on day one, and the other NOT to vote for Chaz. That way they avoid an obvious link, while keeping themselves relatively strong. I'll try to post my overall opinions of the other players during break. I know I jump around a lot, but the only person of whose innocence I'm convinced is myself.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Zag]

(I realized that it was time to leave for a doctor's appt. Finishing my thought...)

With Voldemort seeming to have a permanent doc effect, it seems likely that the power role claim that is untrue is the doc, because it is a partial duplicate. Because I also doubt that neither spy knew the other, I'm still leaning strongly towards the other spy being one of the non-Chaz-voting three. The overlap, here, is, of course, Snik, so it is his claim I am most suspicious of. On the other hand, I am loathe to risk killing a doc, if this thinking isn't correct.

Other theories:

- Maybe Jedo is right, and it is UM.

- Maybe MNO is really an insane cop, and it is Jedo

- Maybe MNO's cop powers are useless because both the spies have GF ability. (We already know that Snape did, from raekuul's post.) That would go a long way to explaining the number of power roles we have -- if one of them is actually worse than useless (because it is potentially misleading).

- Maybe MNO is lying. I don't think so, though. He wouldn't have selected Jedo as the one to clear.

- Maybe, as Jedo suggests, UM is lying. That actually makes more sense, because he cleared me. Having hammered the spy, I don't think it was news to anyone when I was cleared, so his declaration didn't provide as much help to the town as MNO's clearing Jedo. ALSO (Oh, this theory is starting to feel a little better to me), he might have been counting on someone pointing out, as I did earlier, that a role-blocker having blocked me doesn't actually clear me, because a role-blocker doesn't stop a night-kill, only secondary abilities. Until he claimed, I had been thinking that UM was the cop, which is why I totally missed MNO clearing Jedo, even on reread.

- (For the sake of completeness) Maybe it was I. I supposed if Sentran and Jedo's theory is correct, that neither spy knew who his buddy was, then I might have hammered Chaz. It seems farfetched, though, that the game would be that unbalanced (three town power roles and the scum that badly handicapped).

But with all this, I still like best the theory that it is someone who didn't vote for Chaz. equestrian/wordcross still seems like the safest and best vote right now, even though I really think it is Snik and his claim is just crap. (He might even have noticed the same thing that I noticed about Voldemort being safe from night-kills and figured out that it was safe to claim doc, or maybe raekuul fed him a safe claim.)

[Sentran]

I will be really thrown if Zag turns out to be the scum, because his posts are always intelligent and somewhat enlightening, and even identify his own potential guilt. I also agree that Wordcross is the safest choice for lynch, and his continued silence is not helping him.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Sentran]

(on Wordcross)
6 posts yesterday, and none of them in the Mafia game.
Mod, can we ask if he's read his role PM yet, and confirmed?
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[raekuul]

He has read his role PM, yes. I'll send him a reminder.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I thought someone else would throw this out there, but I'm pretty sure role-blocking does stop night kills. Maybe things have changed since I last played, but that's what I remember.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[wordcross]

I'm still catching up with the game. Will post soon
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Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[Zag]

You prompted me to go check, here: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roleblocker I was speaking only from memory, but I guess it can go either way, depending on the mod. Anyway, I don't have any night ability to block, so I couldn't even tell he had done it. That's why I was assuming he was a cop when he came out and cleared me. But I'll accept being cleared, if it does, and you choose to believe UM isn't lying. (Of course, if he is lying, that clears me, too, unless you really think that there were three spies to start.)

[Sentran]

[Undercover Monk]

[Sentran]

[Sentran]

I'm still amazed at how someone obviously and actively working for the town, including stopping the bandwagons on people who others claim are town, can still have more votes than the ones making claims that can not be substantiated. Or, for that matter, the ones who have been completely silent this game! *cough*Wordcross*cough*
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Zag]

Getting bent out of shape over an obvious typo is suspicious, Sentran. He obviously meant post #110 -- after all, he quotes it, so it's obvious what post was intended.

[Zag]

I'm cringing at the over-use of 'obvious' in that post.

[Sentran]

[wordcross]

I'm now reading page 6. I'll give you a more complete rundown when I finally finish, but something that bugs me is this:

Why the hell was anyone suspicious of Jedo? Granted, it's been a long while since I've played mafia, but since when does "anyone that is a spy or is assisting a spy" mean more than one spy? There's no way to know for certain what the extra roles are and/or how they engage under what circumstances. We *might* have another spy who can recruit, or maybe we just have someone who's killing us off from some vendetta, but cannot recruit. Or we might have someone who's just a sympathizer but not actually a spy.

Obviously, the game's not over so there's someone else out there. Maybe it's the person with the killing ability, although for all we know that might be Voldemort himself guessing who the deserters are.

And I know that themed mafia games are not required to be canon or even particularly similar to the source material for roles, but does no one else find Sentran's Draco claim at least slightly suspect? In HP Snape goes through quite a bit to protect Draco from Voldemort's wrath. It's not unreasonable to think that Draco might be a spy helper.
_________________
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[wordcross]

I find myself agreeing with one player generally more than any other, and for whatever reason that's Jedo.

The two players most suspicious to me are Undercover Monk and Sentran. Zag has been very active and fairly thorough, but also seemingly vehement.

I'm going to throw out a vote: Undercover Monk for the time being, but I'll be going back through his posts to see if there's any reason I should change that.
_________________
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[Undercover Monk]

wow sentran really I post in support of you and you throw a mislabled quote from a huge recapp summary that no one else was willing to do. It really makes me want to vote you. But I refuse to vote while Im angry so I will rethink this tomorow when Im not so pissed.

wordcross: There are two spies. Snape was a spy and in the flavor text the dark lord said we were looking for Potter. So I assume hes the other spy.

I love how my lynching of Chaz is viewed as both smart and yet stupid enough to prove Im scum. I laid out a decent endgame plan that has been approved of by several town members but still sit at 2 votes.

This just prove that you can lead a town to victory but you cant make them win.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning