Ender's Game Mafia is over. Congrats, Town!!

[Lifeinmomland]

I agree that the idea is scary. It seems to me that is a tool for the mafia. Jedo suggesting it makes me more suspicious of him. I may swing my vote. Here is why...
In going over posts I have observed that on day 1 wordcross put and FOS on Jedo. Night one Wordcross died.
Day 2 there is a long series of posts concerning MNO voting Jedo.(though he did rescind the vote)
Night 2 MNO dies.
Jedo and UM have mentioned several times that they NEVER work together ( which could be viewed as a distancing technique) but they have both been on both lynches (but then so have I), and many of the arguments they have posted have been... complementary.

In the end my big concern is looking to the wrong info for guilt again (like I did with Ctorj).

_________________
Who is John Gult?

[bgg1996]

Either that, or scum killed whomsoever targetted jedo to frame him.
_________________
The one member below 18

[Undercover Monk]

And suddenly the weird kills make sense. momland framed jedo and has been waiting to dump this on him. the two mafia posted above me I thin.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[bgg1996]

Of course, it does sound like it could be a coincidence.

Hmmm, what do you normally do to start a discussion that could lead to evidence?
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The one member below 18

[bgg1996]

[Undercover Monk]

well i cant be sure that there are 2 scum but moms post was scummy and i explained in a huge post several pages back why your predecessor was scummy which you would have known if you had bothered to read the thread.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[bgg1996]

Ok, I really shouldn't speak the little spanish I know.
What I meant was:
If I was the second mafia, then why would I be the one to point out to you that LIML might have just been framing jedo?
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The one member below 18

[raekuul]

Because it would get us off the trail of the real mobsters?

[raekuul]

Seriously, you really would point out that Momland may be framing Jedo if you were the second mobster because we, the town, KNOW there is at least one more mafia member out there. It's entirely possible that Momland is a mafia member. It's just as possible that you're trying to frame Momland by saying she's framing Jedo, in an attempt to get us off the scent. It's less likely that both you and Momland are mafia, and more likely that you're both just townies.

Trying to be helpful while not actually being helpful is a valid scum tactic.

[bgg1996]

Uhhhh, wait, did you say that I was probably a townie, then imply that I was scum by saying that I was using a scum tactic?

Maybe I should clarify further.
If LIML framed jedo, and both LIML and I were the remaining scum, why would I alert everybody to the possibility that somebody could be framing Jedo?

Other than WIFOM reasons, of course.
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The one member below 18

[raekuul]

Other than WIFOM in that case? Just bad play.

[Lifeinmomland]

what is the abbereviation in Rae's posts?
_________________
Who is John Gult?

[raekuul]

Wine in front of me (from The Princess Bride)

In long, if I'm not mistaken, it means the Mafia is trying to misdirect us into thinking that it's an either-or choice; in this case, the either/or that Scum!bgg would want us to believe is that either he or you (but not both) is the scum.

The only way it dissolves into WIFOM is if both you and bgg are scum, which as I said before is possible, but unlikely.

[Lifeinmomland]

OIC

Well, honestly, I thought my post was clear. I didn't switch my vote cause, while I find Jedo suspicious (and truly I find you ALL fishy) I felt the information was to shaky to do anything with. If we are being honest here, Jedo would have to be playing with the subtly of a 2nd grader to have made those calls himself.

Now comes the test. What information is real, what info is planted?

And what does lynch or lose mean?

_________________
Who is John Gult?

[Jedo the Jedi]

Lynch or Lose (Lylo) means that if we do not lynch scum today, they will automatically win tomorrow (barring incredible power roles). Scum win in a tie, so a lynched townie today and a killed townie tonight means there would be two scum and two townies tomorrow (assuming there are actually two scum left).

I'm serious about this mass claim. If bgg doesn't claim definitively by tomorrow, my vote is going back with all the consequences that has.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Zag]

Let me clarify. The Mafia do not automatically win in the case of a tie. However, if there is ever any point that one faction can guarantee a win, I will call the game over. This typically is true once Mafia has equal numbers to town, because they know each other so they can vote in a block and then they can get the extra night kills.

Just a warning to the mafia, if I don't call the game over when you think it ought to be, it's because I have a good reason. I don't suggest announcing anything on your own.

[Undercover Monk]

ok that post makes me think we do have two oh and bgg you posted that because that was an obvious extrapolation. (heehee big word) We simulposted so yeah you are trying to distance yourself. I think its time that you at least claim or i will be adding my vote with jedo.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[bgg1996]

Say whatever you want.
I will be the one who does not claim.
_________________
The one member below 18

[bgg1996]

Until maybe I'm at L-1, then I might claim.
Of course, if you read the series, you would already know who I was, and if you knew mafia terminology, you would know what my role is.
_________________
The one member below 18

[Jedo the Jedi]

I want you to know this is anti-town play, and it is generally frowned upon. Your belligerence is currently helping the scum. L-1 is dangerous because if the scum aren't already voting you, after I put you at L-1, they can swoop in and lynch you and potentially win the game with that single vote.

Please, just claim now without added votes. We're all going to do it because we must in order to win.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[bgg1996]

Oh well, the mafia probably already guessed it.
Andrew "Ender" Wiggin: doctor
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The one member below 18

[Zag]

We've been having some great action, so no deadline. I just thought it's time for an...

Official vote count

[Sniklac16]

Well damn, if that claim is true it totally throws me for a loop. Im going to have to unvote for now and re-read the game
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[raekuul]

I'd actually suspected it for a while; ever since bgg said there may be another doctor. Of course, if what bgg says is true, then we may need to take another look at Momland.

In the meantime, are we still doing the rest of the claims? Who's next to claim?

[Jedo the Jedi]

Thank you.

I'm next, so here goes. I am Bean, cop. I will reveal my investigations after all the claims.

Mom?
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[bgg1996]

The order is:

bgg1996
Jedo
Lifeinmomland
Raekuul
Sniklac
Undercover Monk
_________________
The one member below 18

[Lifeinmomland]

Sorry to hold you up guys. I should have check earlier today. I am Crazy Tom and I am a commuter.
_________________
Who is John Gult?

[Undercover Monk]

first off i have suspected since day 2 that jedo was cop so that claim does not surprise me. Second what is a commuter?
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[bgg1996]

The Commuter is a town aligned role which can commute and leave the town for the night. Therefore, the player with this role is immune to night kills any night which they have commuted.
_________________
The one member below 18

[Sniklac16]

I was gonna say i've never heard of a commuter role and thought it made mom sound fishy and was considering voting her...but if what bgg says is true than that pretty much clears mom because i highly doubt a newb pulled that role out of thin air unless sentran helped her
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[raekuul]

Valentine Wiggin, town.

[bgg1996]

What do you mean town?
A vanilla townie?
_________________
The one member below 18

[raekuul]

What else would I mean in saying that? I'm sure that if I had any powers, I'd find some way to spin them in such a way that they'd appear to be a town role. I cannot take nothing and make something out of it.

[Sniklac16]

guess that means im up...first i find it hard to believe theres both a doctor AND a cop it give town too much power im more inclined to believe the cop claim than the doctor because jedo has contributed a lot more to this game. Well im Alai mason
_________________
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[bgg1996]

[bgg1996]

Sorry Sniklac, but nobody can edit their posts. It originally said Vanilla Townie.
_________________
The one member below 18

[bgg1996]

Or at least, I thought they couldn't. Looking back, it doesn't say that in the rules.
_________________
The one member below 18

[Zag]

Sorry. No editing of posts! Once they are there, you leave them, typos and all. (You can't possibly know how much this pains me when I'm a player.) I'll go edit the first post to add this.

[Zag]

So, checking Snik's post, I see that he edited it a full half hour after originally posting it, and nearly 15 minutes after bgg's post after it. Assuming bgg is correct, then it sounds as if he edited his post in response to bgg complaining about the same thing w.r.t. raekuul (that is, the invalidity of claiming vanilla townie).

---------------------------

I'm going to call a halt to the game for a bit. No posts about the game at all. I personally feel that Snik should have known better, and I'm tempted to mod-kill him. On the other hand, it is true that there was no such rule officially stated. (I just thought it was assumed by everyone.)

I feel especially bad, because Snik was mod-killed a couple of games ago, and I was quite careful to put into the rules the infraction for which he was killed in that game.

[Zag]

Ok. I've decided. I feel pretty sure that there is no way, after all this, that Snik is going to survive the lynch party already forming outside his door, so I don't think I am doing a terrible disservice to him to mod-kill him. I am, however, going to leave it as daytime, with the voting still going. This seems the fairest solution, since it makes it still undecided which side is going to win.

-------------------------------------------

The whole group is sitting around, making accusations and claims, when the police rush in. The first few rush over to Sniklac16 and shout, "Peter Wiggin, you are under arrest for various crimes, including security hacking, editing, and MURDER!"

The wiser among you look around to see who is reacting oddly to this new occurrence, and several of you notice raekuul flinch noticeably when they head for Sniklac16, and then start to move quietly towards the door. "Freeze!" shouts one of the cops. "Valentine Wiggin, you are also implicated in several crimes, and you're coming with us!"

Looking later in their emails, the rest of you find the following: