What revolted, dismayed and angered you today?

[Zag]

[Death Mage]

Here is what I don't get about any of the "campaign finance reform" or similiar discussions.

What makes any of you think, even for a moment, that ANY such reform is going to do anything but put MORE power in the hands of sitting politicians? THEY are the ones deciding on what such reform contains, and voting on whether or not it passes, after all.
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[Zag]

I agree that Campaign Finance Reform has the same catch-22 problem as trying to get politicians not to give money away. However, if you can manage to get it written so that it is actually effective, and then passed, then it breaks the money cycle. On the other hand, stopping money from being given away (without Campaign Finance Reform) is a war you never win. You might be able to marshal your forces enough to win one battle or two, but you still lose most of them. Campaign Finance Reform is the only chance you have to win the war. It's an uphill battle, but if you can manage to win that one, then all the others become possible.

[Pablo]

Angered, dismayed, revolted...but not surprised.
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All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays.

[Samadhi]

From Reuters:
"Police said it was a "terrorist attack" -- Israel's term for a Palestinian strike."

Those silly Israelis! Referring to a fatal bombing of civilians as a terrorist attack. Shouldn't it be a teachable moment or something?
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[extro...*]

[Pablo]

So now what? A no fly zone in Palestine?
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All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays.

[Zag]

I realize that this thread is for the big picture things that Pablo finds dismaying, but 'What annoyed you today' just isn't cutting it.

My son-in-law is back on whatever drugs messed him up the last time. He's disappeared, taking with him not only the guitar that my wife bought for him three different times, already (he hocked it for money for drugs last year, twice), but also the keyboards and computer she bought him when he finished rehab last year. He took her debit card and withdrew the daily limit, and he nearly cleaned out the bank account that he and my daughter shared (not that there was much in it). But the kicker is, we found out he sold all our family silver over a month ago, a little before we had started to become suspicious. THIS time, when he ran off, he didn't take his phone with him, so he can't start wheedling and using the emotional blackmail that my wife fell for last time. If he calls and says he is ready to jump off a bridge, I'll tell him 'happy landings.' Simple probate is probably cheaper than a divorce.

The other time we went through this (about a year ago, now), I said that we can tolerate a little drama, we understand that this is a struggle, and we won't throw him out for one slip up. But if he makes the choice to steal from us again, then he should take whatever he wants and walk away, because he won't be coming back. My daughter is finally fed up, too, and she doesn't want him back either. If I can find where he pawned the silver, and if it is still available, I'll press charges if I need to in order to get it back.

I just am in disbelief that this is starting up again. He actually seemed to be doing reasonably well with his business -- why couldn't he just enjoy a little success? He claims when he is sober that he hates it when he is in this state. Why would he step down that path again? I'm so frustrated and infuriated, I feel like the walls are closing in. We are not in any danger of losing our house, or anything, but we are struggling enough financially, now that my wife has finally quit work and gone on disability. We just don't have any reserve left to go through this again.

Well, at least my wife is finally fed up too. At least, she says so tonight. When he calls in a week and begs to 'come home,' we'll see. He's not coming back to this home, though.

Sorry for dumping. I just wanted to get it off my chest. Doesn't really help, though. I'm still furious.

[Lepton*]

I'm sorry to hear that, Zag. You're doing the right thing, I think.

I don't understand how people can do this sort of thing to themselves and the people around them. My best friend is currently babysitting a friend who is so far down that she'll start drinking if she's left alone in the evening. Life sucks -- for all of us, at one time or another -- but where's the introspection and self-restraint?

[Pablo]

[Jack_Ian]

His actions were premeditated. It seems he assumes he will never return and so went for everything he could.

You can be sure that when he runs out of funds, he will ask to return. This is not him speaking. The drugs (or lack thereof) is forcing him to swallow his pride and seek forgiveness and help.

There were sober moments when he conspired to steal from you. This is his true nature.

It may be an expensive lesson, but in the end it will be worth every penny. Let him get sober, get a job and repay what he has stolen and then think about giving him another chance.

Hopefully there are no children involved. If there are then you can never make a truly clean break, which is what you all need right now.

He will never recover if he does not feel the full force of his actions. He feels entitled to forgiveness and it's about time he learned that he must earn it.

He is not your responsibility. Look after yourself and your family. Let the justice system deal with him.

[Zag]

Thanks, all, for the words of encouragement. I don't doubt he'll be back begging, but I truly doubt he'll ever recover enough to repay us. Fortunately, this time, my wife has agreed to stop enabling him. That is, she finally has acknowledged that this is what she's been doing. We'll see if she can stick to her guns. Her big 'weakness' is her loving character and her generosity of spirit. When he calls, apologizing, calling himself a loser, and saying he is just going to kill himself and free the rest of us from the misery he causes, maybe this time she won't fall for the emotional blackmail. Or maybe not.

In any case, the monetary value of the things he took is tiny compared to the sentimental value, and they can't be recovered. This is true this time, but even more so last time, when he took much of my wife's jewelry. She didn't have much that was very valuable, because I'm a cheap SOB who doesn't think much of "shiny dirt," but she had a lot of mildly valuable things, received as gifts over the years, that were important to her because of who gave them to her. The silverware was, of course, a family heirloom, and it sickens me to know it was just melted down for its metal content.

[AcidFast]

Zag, I'm sorry for your situation, but I think you are handling it well. I understand that all this time, you and your wife have wanted to help him, but you have to draw a line somewhere. The thing about drug addicts is they are notoriously self-centered, and seem to continue being so even after they stop using.

You can only put yourself through so much pain for the sake of someone who, due to drug use or not, has never shown you the same courtesy.

It's not like in the movies, where someone realizes how much you've done for them, and they break down crying and hugging Good Will Hunting-style and this motivates them to get themselves straight.

My opinion is the only way for them to learn the lesson they need to learn is to be left alone. Call it tough love or whatever, I think they need to be left to their own devices, and they either survive, or they don't. You can't be responsible for them anymore. (I mean this in the extent of your specific situation. I always try to help people at first, but everyone has a line, and I think we can all agree that yours has been crossed.)

[Samadhi]

[Zag]

Thanks for the support. There is a difference, though, from your situation. Once my daughter's divorce is final (she's already sent in the first round of paperwork), he is no longer attached to us. I personally don't care if we ever mend the rift. I don't wish him ill; I hope he actually can clean himself up and have a normal grown-up life. I just want him to do it somewhere that isn't around me.

I do have some good(ish) news concerning him. He got a slot in a rehab clinic and my wife dropped him off there yesterday. They actually went there the day before, but the admission person was out sick. (My wife heard this from them directly, it wasn't just another story.) On the way back that day to the hotel where he was staying, he started in on how rehab was a waste of time and she should just send him to prison where he belongs, blah, blah, blah, Oh pity me, blah blah. Well she didn't fall for it for a second. As they got off the highway, she turned what would be the wrong way to the hotel. When he asked why, she said she was headed to the police station to turn him in. Suddenly his story changed tune. She got no grief driving him to the rehab the next day, and she has already told him that he should arrange something else for a ride out of there to wherever he might go next, she's done with him.

[Samadhi]

I'm glad to hear your wife did that and I hope he gets better. It takes time but maybe the recovered him will be someone you like. I only recommend you don't cut him off emotionally. You have anger and distrust, he has shame and regret. He can recover himself without you or his wife, if he's lucky. But people around that care for you make the difference.

Only advice, it's his job to make amends if possible.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Ctorj]

Wow. just wow.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43233984/ns/us_news-life/?GT1=43001
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[Zag]

Well, it isn't as if there were firefighters ready to go out, but some supervisor said, "no, we can't afford it." It's that the individuals involved didn't know what to do that wouldn't be throwing their own lives away. The man went into the water on his own, and might have been drugged up, violent, who knows? Even a skilled lifeguard would be taking his own life into his hands, going out there. Someone without the skills would just be two dead instead of only one.

I'm a very good swimmer, with a little lifeguard training. I would absolutely swim out to try to rescue someone who was out there through no fault of his own; but there's no way I would go try to bring in someone who didn't want to come in. He made a choice; who am I to gainsay him and risk my own life in the process?

You can decry the fact that the firefighters weren't trained for such a rescue, but do you expect them to be trained in everything? How about if they are called and someone jumped off a cliff, but fell only 100 feet and is still alive, and 200 feet off the nearest flat ground? OMG, they weren't trained for that, either! Seriously, how often does it come up that someone drowns so slowly that there is time to call firefighters and they would be there in time to do something?

[Samadhi]

The standard is "Reach, throw, row, go." That is, you try to reach the victim without getting off a solid footing on dry land; then you try to throw something to them that can be used to pull them to shore; then you take a boat out to get them (a struggling person can easily tip and swamp a small boat, inflatable or not); then - last resort - you swim to them and haul them in.

Evidently, this guy didn't *want* to be saved. He was well away from shore, so the "reach" method wouldn't work. He's not going to grab anything you "throw" to him, so that's out. If they don't have the equipment or the proper training for a water rescue from a boat, the "row" method will just be likely to put more people in the cramp-inducingly cold (and hypothermia-inducing) water (although it was 54 degrees that day, You're in the safe zone for at least 45 minutes, after that there's about a 50% chance you'll pass out.) . The reason "go" is last is because even someone who *wants* to be saved can drown their erstwhile rescuer when you have to actually swim out to them. And, with someone actively fighting you, you risk being a victim.

Could the Coast Guard/Navy have saved him? Perhaps. Even a cutter would have had to be within about 30 miles to get there in the hour he was in the water. A helicopter would have had to be airborne and within 100 miles to get there within an hour (or engines running and within about 70 miles). Then, when they got there, they would have had the same choices - a helicopter line dropped to him would have been ignored - someone would have had to go in the water.

It sucks about their budget but that's not what caused this. There didn't seem to be any options if you ask me.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.