Pendragon Mafia GAME OVER

[Sentran]

I was waiting for a Vanilla claim. If Rae is telling the truth, and we still have a Vig/SK out there, the Vanilla claim is almost definitely the guilty party.
Vote: Jedo the Jedi
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[raekuul]

I say we wait for Momland to give us her name claim first. In the meantime, I'm Vo Spader, investigator.

[Sentran]

[raekuul]

...because it was the original assumption and the fact that I have innocent reads on both of them implies an investigation-immune role?

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Sentran]

[raekuul]

Please, you're both giving me a headache. If you two haven't calmed down somewhat before Momland has had her say, then so help me I will find some way to prank you into next year.

(I have always wanted to say that )

[Lifeinmomland]

Thanks for your patience today. I have been herding cats... uh I MEAN 5TH GRADERS, through a giant science museum all day.

My claim is a um odd I guess. I am a mostly vanilla townie. With two caveats. I can evade a attack the FIRST time I am attacked, and I am a vigilante BUT I have only 2 bullets. I received my role in two parts. The first was that I was vanilla and could evade. Because I had no night action I did not pay attention to GL during the night 1. As such I did not get the message from Snik mentioning a computer foul up that resulting in me getting a half of a role. On night two I used my first bullet on UM. I decided on him because I was convinced that either UM or MNO was scum, and MNO was lynched during the day and was not scum.

Last night, I went after JEDO because I believed both Sentran, and Rae, what they had to say did not ring true to me.

I believe Jedo is a Godfather with a caveat in his role similar to mine about evading an attack against him.
VOTE JEDO
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Who is John Gult?

[Lifeinmomland]

Sorry I forgot to add that despite sneaking up on Jedo he transformed and got away. He is therefore NOT a vanilla townie. (Next time Preview BEFORE submitting)
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Who is John Gult?

[raekuul]

Why would Snik say you were an evasive vanilla if that was only half of your role?

[Lifeinmomland]

If you re-read my post you will see I addressed that question. Snik said it was a computer error.
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Who is John Gult?

[raekuul]

That's all well and good, but why would a computer error have Snik telling you that you have a vanilla role with sprinkles?

For that matter, would you be so kind as to claim a role name? Everyone else but you has done so.

[Lifeinmomland]

Sure. The role name is Loor. I do not know why a computer error happened or how it happened. Being that I am not Snik I can't answer that aspect of the question. I would copy paste from the e-mails I got but that is a violation of the rules.

* Don't quote from your role message in the public forum, but you may in the night-time discussion forums if you like


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Who is John Gult?

[raekuul]

Hmm... then we have someone who has a safe claim, then.

Let me get this straight. On some nights you're an Evasive Vanilla Townie, and on other nights you're a two-shot Vig? Or are you an Evasive Vanilla Townie that also happens to have two shots as a Vig? Either way, "Vanilla" and "Vigilante" don't seem to mesh well together (hence the sprinkles comment)

[Jedo the Jedi]

Well, this is strange. I have nothing to say to Mom's claim to have shot me except I think that is even more stacked against scum.

It's not defensiveness, Sentran. If you'll recall, I called you out on that subtle mudslinging last time you were scum.

rae, I think something isn't right here, but I don't know what it is. You're the lynch vote since I'm not doing myself in. I think I still lean toward Sentran, but Mom's claim is suspicious too. Maybe she is the GF? She wasn't on the Ctorj wagon which was one of my original suspicions, but there's still that extra kill...

I give up. I can't make sense of this.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[raekuul]

The longer we prolong the day, the more likely our scum will slip. I'm actually leaning towards Sentran due to his eagerness, but... well, let's see how long we can go before Snik declares a deadline.

[raekuul]

Actually, I have an even better idea.

*clears throat* The First Court of Pokota is now in session.

As I seem to be the only person here willing to withhold my vote, I'm going to cut a deal. You all are going to decide who I vote for. Once I cast my vote, I will not retract it, so if you don't like the vote then you'll have to lynch me, instead (thereby handing the scum a victory on a silver platter).

Here's the catch. You have to prove why each of the remaining players - yourself, myself, and the two others - are innocent. We are throwing my investigations out the window for this, and anyone citing my investigations gets a lion dropped on their head at some future date.

Once the cases have been made, I will give my evaluations of the four of us, as well as place my vote.

[Sentran]

Prove players' innocence? But it's so much easier to point out Jedo's guilt. By his own admission, he now considers questions asked of him to be a scum tell (at least by me). He goes on to question the person that was NOT voting for the townie, since that's obviously more scummy than being on a day 1 bandwagon...

OK, enough mudslinging, I'll give it a shot.

Day 1: After the usual shenanigans, I make a comment at Jedo that Zag finds very humorous. Although I say nothing at the time, it is his response that begins my questioning of him, as he places himself very carefully in the townie column without ever making a direct claim. My first serious vote was for Ctorj, for bandwagon reasons. I did not remove my vote, as his arguments were not very convincing. Zag (known scum), UM (known scum) and Jedo (suspected scum) are all on the lynch mob as well.

Night 1: I am not sure about LIML, so I decide to use my device on her regardless of what it turns out to be. As one of the 2 non-voters, I figure it's a safe bet either way. It turns out to be a protection item.

Day 2: I start the day by voting for LIML to see if I can get her talking more frequently. I suppose I could have bugged her in person, but I felt that would be bad form. Zag starts a minor campaign against me, after MNO and UM. After a bit of discussion, I switch my vote to MNO as the more obviously scummy of the players. After I realize that MNO is at L-1, I remove my vote, temporarily derailing the lynch train. MNO ends up being lynched anyway. LIML, Zag, UM, Jedo, and Rae are the lynch mob.

Night 2: I use my remaining device to investigate Zag. He comes up as a Mafia Roleblocker.

Day 3: LIML gets a few votes right off the bat, Jedo and Zag. I accuse Zag, and end up getting him lynched. Rae and LIML are with me on the lynch train. Jedo is not voting.

Night 3: Nobody dies.

That leaves Rae, LIML, myself, and Jedo alive on day 4. Rae has lynched 1 townie and 1 scum. I have lynched 1 townie and 1 scum. LIML has lynched 1 townie and 1 scum. Jedo has lynched 2 townies and 0 scum. Do the math Rae, and do the right thing.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[raekuul]

Sentran, as I stated at the beginning of day, there's enough circumstantial evidence floating around out there for me to easily convince the other two to lynch you. As I would prefer for people to decide things for themselves rather than expect people to blindly trust me when I say someone is scum, well, you can see how the Pokota Court is appealing to me.

[Sentran]

Lynch me then. Lose the game for the town. I can not say strongly enough that I LED THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL LYNCH AGAINST THE SCUM THIS GAME!
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[raekuul]

And as for proving innocence over guilt? Two reasons. One: it's harder to prove someone innocent than it is to prove them guilty, and Two: I believe in something called "Innocent until proven guilty".

[Undercover Monk]

I know Im not supposed to say anything but can I just ask why we as a group have never taken Raekuul to the end of a mafia game before? Seriously his Cout of Pokota post literally had me laughing out loud in the middle of a library. rae you have officially made my day. LOL a Lion dropped on their head I am shutting up now but that needs to go in the Hall Of Fame on the GL!

special mention also to LIML herding cats comment
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[raekuul]

After you've played a few dozen games of Mafia over on a forum that is built around one of the most infamous indie platform games ever released for PC, you'll understand why I seem to be so... unusual. Over there, I really am sane and rational.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Sentran's innocence case:

Sentran began the game with a random vote on Ctorj which is null for day 1. He did not see Ctorj's argument as convincing, so his vote remained on the one whom the town would soon discover was innocent. This was not scummy, just unfortunate. Day 2, amidst the flurry of conjectures, Sentran ended up not voting for the townie. Day 3, Sentran has an investigation result which nabs Zagscum, and vociferously vouches for his lynch. Today, his actions and arguments are mostly unclassifiable because of a lack of information, but theoretically they are made by an innocent townie who has no more information than the hearsay of others.

LifeinMomLand's innocence case:

Mom began the game rather quietly with very little posting. That said, there is not much to garner about her from day 1 except that she is apparently hesitant to do random/bandwagon voting on day 1. This is null. Day 2, she appeared to be carefully considering the lynch possibilities, but ultimately came down on MNOtown like a majority of the players. In theory, she is the vig who killed Monk during the night. Day 3, Mom is the lynch vote on Zagscum. She looks pretty townie to have killed two scum. Her input today has been limited and is also mostly unclassifiable.

Jedo's innocence case:

Jedo began the game with his usual playstyle of bandwagoning. He was not able to respond after Ctorj's post and before the hammer, but said it was not convincing to him. This is unfortunate and not scummy like Sentran's also. Day 2, he tries to go after one of the non-Ctorj voters assuming not all the scum would be on the previous days wagon, but after seeing that is going nowhere and that the real decision will be between MNO and Monk, he weighs in there. They both seem scummy to him, but Monk seems so for reasons different from everybody else. He ultimately decides on MNO for certain reasons. On this day, he has made a concerted effort to weigh the options and scumhunt. Day 3, he decides to start back on his Mom target, but unvotes and says he will be the hammer on Zag after there has been more time to discuss. Mom hammers before he is able to follow through on his word. Day 4, he has not placed his vote because he recognizes it is the endgame, and has tried to consider the possibilities for the situation.

raekuul's innocence case:

Day 1, he didn't say much because he was V/LA, and therefore did not vote. Day 2, he explains his absence and does some careful analysis of MNO and Monk. He starts out going against Monk, but after more discussion, changes to MNO. Going with most of the town and the logic, this is null. Day 3, he willingly added his vote against Zagscum and attempted some discussion about the setup. Today, he has withheld his vote and continued to take his time to wade through the competing information.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Is that what you wanted? That was really difficult, and I don't know what exactly you want from that, but I think you definitely are the only one all three of us trust.

Sentran, I do still want to counter your assertions. I do not "now consider[s] questions asked of [me] to be a scum tell (at least by me)." I know that you have asked such questions before in a way which rhetorically leads people to think me scummy. It's the same thing I caught Amb for in Sopranos mafia. Scum do that. Also, it's not really fair to say I didn't help lynch a scum. We all helped lynch the same townie, and I said I would hammer Zag after allowing for more discussion. We might have benefited from discussing a little bit about what we might do if Zag's death didn't end the game, but Mom putting the hammer down before that opportunity is infinitely more credible. If I had laid the hammer when I had the chance, you would be saying something about me quick hammering.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[raekuul]

Jedo, that is exactly what I wanted, maybe a bit more. Sadly, I cannot say exactly what it is I'm looking for yet, mostly because I do not know what it is I'm looking for yet.

What has happened is this. On Day 2, something in the back of my mind was saying UM after the current focus of suspicion was made known to me. I then dug up every shred of evidence I could find to prove my intuitive guess one way or the other. The same happened night 2 - I somehow knew that going after UM would be a waste of time, so I switched over to Zag. What a happy coincidence that Sentran also targeted Zag last night, and from there Logic proved Intuition.

Today is... different. By all rights, I should be going after Sentran due to the circumstances. The thing is, I have a gut feeling that lynching before everyone has had a thorough case presented in their favor will be a bad idea.

[Sentran]

[Sentran]

I'm ready to move on to the next game now. I hope LIML posts soon, because all of this posturing is becoming boring to me. I'm almost willing to vote for myself to end the game sooner. The thing is, I believe most of the people playing. I think that Jedo is the final scum and godfather, and that Rae, LIML and I are all telling the truth. If that is in fact the case, my lynch will take us to night where Jedo will kill again, leaving himself with one person on day 5 to deadlock and night kill.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[raekuul]

You do know that you haven't actively and objectively tried to prove Jedo's innocence yet, right?

[Sentran]

[Lifeinmomland]

Here is my view.

Sentran said he investigated Zag, and he was scum. That proved true.

(at the risk of having a lion dropped on my head)Your investigation into Zag got nothing. You made a comment on day 2 I believe (I can't go back at look right this second because I need to go pick up kids in 10 minutes) that sounded to me as if you were a cop. It makes sense to me the role-blocker blocked you. Thus no result. You were honest about not getting a result.

Jedo transformed and disappeared while I was trying to shoot him last night. Which I did because I believe both you and Sentran. He then claimed a vanilla role. Not vanilla with sprinkles, Vanilla. He lied.

I told you the truth of my role, admittedly I can't prove it because I can't copy info from role messages but it was the truth.

On another note, who benefits from extended day play? The last mafia role. Who quietly went along with your demands? Jedo. That could be viewed two ways, thus proving my point about the objectivity of this game.

Time for me to go pick up kids.
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Who is John Gult?

[Lifeinmomland]

I accidently cut off the top of this message when pasting it from Word.

I am sorry, but I do not see the point in this. You are in truth asking for our POV's, skewed to include the possibility of innocence. This is an objective game, everything in this game can be played to assume innocence or guilt, depending on who is trying and why.
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Who is John Gult?

[Jedo the Jedi]

[raekuul]

Quite honestly, there's a fuckton of evidence stacked up against everybody right now, the largest that's against me is the simple fact that I'm. Still. Alive. I still don't know what it is I'm looking for or why, all I know is that Sentran is wanting this day to end faster than it has been. Still being alive during LYLO is a new experience for me, so forgive me if I'm fucking suspicious of everybody.

[MNOWAX]

*Comes back to life*

it would be so much easier to just lynch me again...

*dies*
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Lifeinmomland]

SUBJECTIVE I ment subjective not objective in both instances it was used.

I have an answer for that Jedo. You could not kill me last night cause you are probally the first person to attack me at night. Thus you triggered my 1 time protection. Now you are hoping Rae will drag his feet long enough that Sentran or I changes thier vote or someone suggests a no lynch so you can try again for one of us on a night kill.

Rae you are still alive IMHO because killing you last night would not have given Jedo as much ammunition as killing me. As for everyone being uilty that is the basis I play from. Until I see something that strikes me as strong enough to lend doubt to someone being mafia you are all guilty. I feel I have seen that in you and Sentran.
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Who is John Gult?

[Lifeinmomland]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Sentran]

Raekuul, I find it incredibly difficult to acquiesce to your request to attempt to prove Jedo's innocence. Here's what I came up with.

Day 1: Jedo bandwagons Ctorj, which is not particularly scummy. He also suspected LIML, but did not vote her.

Day 2: Jedo votes LIML out of the gate, but switches to MNO prior to the lynch. Again not too scummy, as townies were in on the vote as well.

Day 3: Jedo follows Zag in an immediate vote of LIML, and after the lynch mob on Zag gains some steam, he unvotes.

Day 4: Jedo has not yet voted.

If Jedo were innocent, and still believed that LIML was the most likely scum candidate (since he's been targetting her on and off since day one), he would have voted her. It appears to me that the only time Jedo does not vote is when the vote is not in favor of the town. He has also been less antagonistic this game than in the past.

I have more, but break is over. I'll try to get a bit more post time soon.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Sniklac16]

Game is kinda dragging now so im posting deadline 72 hours from this post
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.