Osama is dead!!!

[Sniklac16]

I just heard osama bin laden has been killed? Thought id get everyones opinion
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[wordcross]

He's just pinin' for the fjords.
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[wordcross]

In all seriousness, though, it's almost problematic that he's now confirmed dead. He's been such a polarizing force that it allowed the US and others to justify military actions and security policies both at home and abroad (good or bad). Now that he is no longer alive, there will have to be some other face to put on the boogeyman that is "terrorism". On the plus side, it's a huge morale boost and a heavy political boost for Obama's term as president.
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[One Skunk Todd]

Points for me in Deatchwatch 2011.

[Johny Fake]

[wordcross]

Also, if you know anyone who does T-shirts, tell them to start printing whatever they can come up with. It doesn't even have to be good, it just has to be seen.
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[raekuul]

Politically and militarily, this was probably the best time for this to happen.

Economically, though... if a massive recall of our troops does happen, will there be enough jobs to support everyone? Or will we be forced to keep troops out there in order to not completely tank us?

[Quailman]

They don't have to be in harm's way to remain employed. They can just get out of the places we don't need to be.

[Zag]

Well, that wasn't the only reason we had troops in Afghanistan, so it isn't as if they are all going to come home at once. But let me jump in on Pablo's side for a minute. Having the government employ people artificially is not the way to buoy the economy. Even if you were to dump all those people in to the work force, there would be a temporary rise in unemployment, but it would settle out soon enough. The more ambitious of them would start businesses, creating jobs, for themselves and others, and it would help the economy once the short term blip is past.

[wordcross]

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[Dragon Phoenix]

I hear Trump is demanding to see the death certificate.
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[Gomez]

And the long form entrails.

But seriously, massive congratulations all round. It's amazing what you Americans can get done when the PS3 network goes down

[Death Mage]

[wordcross]

one of my favorites from twitter:
"I bet Bin Laden regrets his iPhone purchase"
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[Quailman]

Google Earth now has his hideout marked. It's at 34˚10'09.50˝N 73˚14'33.50˝E

[Poisonium]

I wonder - did anyone get the 25 million dollar reward?
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[Lepton*]

I know this won't be a popular opinion, but what about Osama's right to a fair trial? I know he died resisting "arrest", but the reports I've read don't seem to suggest that much effort was made to take him alive.

Never mind the intelligence value of the guy, how about the moral high ground?

[Jack_Ian]

The news networks seem to be concentrating on the jubilant celebration of Americans, which is unfortunate. Understandable though it is, celebrating the death of somebody, no matter who, never looks good. After all, the world is no safer because of his death. It's not like Hitler got killed and the war is coming to an end.

I heard some interviews with people directly effected, such as a widow and a fireman, both who lost people in the Twin towers. They were much more sombre and welcomed justice finally being served. I wish the networks had concentrated on voices such as theirs instead.

[Death Mage]

[Zag]

I'm not sure, DM, if you are referring to what bin Laden did in organizing the actions of 9/11, or what our marines did. I'm a little uncomfortable calling his actions an act of war, though I understand that he thought of them that way.

I suspect that our marines were not highly motivated to take him alive, and I can't say that I blame them. I suspect that this was sanctioned by the higher-ups in government, on the grounds you describe, but really because they don't want to give him the press and extended period of martyrdom that a trial would create. I disagree, though. I think he would just end up being made to look pathetic the way Saddam Hussein was in his trial.

[Poisonium]

I can imagine some very unfortunate hostage situations if Bin Laden was captured.
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[Death Mage]

[Antrax]

[Zag]

Fair enough. I was only uncomfortable calling it an act of war only because that gives the Twin Towers attacks a level of honor that they don't deserve. Perhaps it is only my perception that an act of war is more honorable than a criminal act.

-------------

Open question: If you were the head of some organization with unlimited funds and a desire to make some radical political change, what would you do? I have a few ideas, but I'll wait for other answers first. I will say that my bias would be to try to cause news-worthy disruption without killing anybody. I would want it very clear that is an important part of the goal, because I think it would help earn sympathy for my cause.

[Death Mage]

[Poisonium]

[Zag]

[Death Mage]

You and I are simply going to disagree on this, Zag.

Because Al'queada has openly declared war.
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[Zag]

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I agree that they have 'declared war.' I just think they are stupid if they think they are going to accomplish anything because of it. It's not as if they have any chance against the U.S. military.

My question was basically: if you were al qaeda, with their goals (that is, the ones they claim they have), would you use the same strategy of causing terror? I think that they would have made a lot more progress if they had tried their best not to take any lives, but only to disrupt the military. This would get them a chance to be heard without everyone simply wanting to kill them. If, at that point, they had said that they, for instance, want the non-Muslims to be away from Mecca (one of their stated goals), they might have seen some attempt at accommodation.

Of course, their real goals are just to expiate their bitterness. And, of course, it doesn't work.

Here are some of the things I had in mind:

1. an EMP bomb near the pentagon. This would shut down all the communications in and out for about 15 minutes. (I'm not sure if this actually is possible, or something that works only in theory.) This would have the added benefit of making the military look foolish.

2. (easy and cheap) Spread caltrops on the major highways around Washington D.C. If you do it simultaneously on as many roads in and out as you can, you'd cause traffic snarls that would take days to unravel.

[extro...*]

[Antrax]

DM, to the best of my knowledge that's what the international law says.
Poisonium, not sure what you're trying to convince me of.
Zag:
3. Random vandalism of city property, like breaking streetlights. Really affects people's well-being while being very easy to perpetrate (especially by kids too young to be legally responsible), and has the bonus that others are likely to join in the more you're able to crap up your local neighborhood.
4. Coordinated slow driving on rush hour in a non-prosecutable manner. Just having a bunch of idiots driving erratically can really screw up traffic. Heck, you could deliberately crash into a fence at a low speed, blocking one lane for long enough to screw everything over.
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[Jack_Ian]

I know the first casualty of war is always the truth and I expected that initial reports would contain a great deal of spin, but latest reports seem to indicate that Osama's wife ran towards military when they came after her husband, that Osama was shot in the leg, taken alive and then dumped from the helicopter into the sea, possibly shot beforehand.
That's a lot of spin.

I agree that swift justice probably will result in many lives being saved that would otherwise result as crowds are whipped to a frenzy during the trials, but the idealist in me still wishes that he was captured and then released due to the inability to receive a fair trial and then sent back home to Saudi Arabia where he is summarily publicly executed.

[extro...*]

[Jack_Ian]

I'm treating everything with a pinch of salt.
I don't believe that the truth will ever be known and that's probably best for all.
Any concrete facts will just be twisted and used as a PR weapon against the US.

I do believe he's dead, and I guess that's the important information here.
It's clear that the killing was unlawful, but probably just, and given that justice is the main goal, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

[Zag]

[Lepton*]

Gold, Zag.

I agree with you, also, about the trial. I presented the same comparison to a friend yesterday. During those years, I was unhappy that the US had invaded Iraq, and I was unhappy with how the military actions progressed, but -- even though the trial was a sham in many ways -- I was content that Saddam Hussein met with some sort of justice.

Here's my feeling about the Westerners that were celebrating Osama bin Laden's death: consider one of the "bad" marines, such as one of the members of this "kill squad". Now, imagine that the Taliban had captured this soldier and summarily executed him, and that the Western news reported local villagers celebrating the death of the American soldier. Of course, he'd be spun as a fallen hero -- a martyr, even -- in the Western press. So, how I felt when seeing dumb young Americans cheer the death of one of their enemies is the same way that I felt when I saw dumb young Arabs and Afghanis celebrating the death of their enemies.

If I had a huge amount of money and wanted to change the world, I'd start the Open Society Foundations to try to spread my values around the world through education, research, and empowering minorities.

[raekuul]

And that, Lepton, is why you're the most dangerous person here

[Zag]

[Antrax]

(madrassa = "school" in Arabic. Pronounced with the "a"s sounding like "uh", not like "eh")
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After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick!

[Pablo]