Winter has begun... (Game over!)

[itisally]

I buy that she is a Mason. But I won't vote for the other claims that I happen to belive also. unvote At least that way it wasn't me who screwed up at the last minuet.

Newbs to the best of my knowledge in order of my precives newyness:lol:

ohcapt13
Captin Aniima
Durryn
spyrl
Garou_Kinfolk
itisally
novice

And by new I mean less than 4 games
_________________
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[novice]

Thanks itisally.

Not voting does not relieve you of any responsibility for screwups, btw. It's also anti-town in the sense that we don't know which way you're leaning on the top suspects. So you're denying us information that could be used to catch scum.

Same goes for the other non-voters, of course.

[Undercover Monk]

not necesarilly novice,

she made it clear she doesnt want to vote either of the two options that in itself is a decision and is just as useful for information gathering purposes. in fact even if itsally is mafia she is helping the town just by posting more than Lucresia is.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Durryn]

Unvote: Lucresia

I hate this. I believe MNO is town and have believed Deception is scum for ..... Has it been a 6 weeks already?????? Dang!!!!

I can't vote for someone I truly believe is Town and we gain no info from killing MNO. We have to do what is best for the town, that leaves (for me at least) Deception (lots of information to gain), Eleth (some information), and Novice (fair amount of information)


Against my better judgement of town alignment and the fact I would rather lose Deception as a player in the game than MNO Vote: Deception Yes, I know......... But it is time.

Someone summon Ser Ilyn Payne
_________________
If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Silverfire]

Unvote: MNOWAX, Vote: Deception

I no longer have to vote to save Lucresia, so I'm voting for the one I think is scummier.

[Amb]

[Amb]

... or is this explained by putting MNO ahead in votes ahead of Lucresia to stop a mason being lynched.

Please excuse my last post. THought I had caught something, but I hadn't.

[Deception]

Alright, fullclaim tmie:

My role can work as a cop

It can also work as about a dozen other roles

I can PM the mod a true or false statement at night, and get a modconfirmed response.

I will withhold my night 1 investigation.

[Deception]

I strongly believe that:

Amb
Durryn
MNOWAX
to be scum

Lower suspicion:
cloudRunner
Jedo

doubt anyone will care, but for posterity, I guess.

dont' forget to check who else picked up on Garou's slip and acted in a similar fashion as me, i dont have time to. it's a town tell.

[spyrl]

For the record, Deception, at no point in my post was I accusing you of lying. I was looking for specifics between you and MNO and that statement was one that I found which stuck out. From reading your ISO, I admit you've done a spectacular job of staying within what I would call the grey area of truth, prefacing your statements with I think, I believe, and similar vehicles of making statements that are opinions instead of facts, so this one stuck out strongly since it was something that did not fall into the grey area.

And cloudRunner, I can't be pressured into voting somewhere I don't like, and like others, I don't like either of them as a top candidate for voting right now.
_________________
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here!

[Durryn]

I am also not happy with my vote. Especially with all of Deceptions claim. I wish he could live tonight and research me asking if I am mafia.. Or would the question be: T/F Durryn is scum. I honestly hope you survive the day and our Doc targets you, so you can ask about me.


I can't be more succinct in my statement that I am not a member of the mafia.

I am so torn here on who we need to lynch and to be honest I am wavering back and forth. If Deception is being truthful then we will be screwing ourselves by lynching him.

unvote

We HAVE to get votes on someone that will give us information and wont hurt the town. One way would be to lynch Lucresia and that would verify our Mason are true. Very good info in my book. I can't in good conscience vote for MNO or Deception any more, even if Deception is the scummiest townie in this game.

<insert multiple expletives here>

vote: Lucresia She is a lurker lynch and will prove Garou and Silver are telling the truth. minimal damage to the town and maximum information.
_________________
If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Deception]

I have on very strong authority that the mason claim is legit.

MNO is the only option, Durryn.

[Sentran]

Day 2, 18 alive, 10 to lynch
Deadline: Now
Official Vote Count

[Silverfire]

Okay, as much as it irks me, Unvote: Deception, Vote MNOWAX. Deception's latest post looks townish to me, and there's no way I want to risk killing our information roles at this point.

[Sentran]

Sorry Silver, you missed it. Now SHHHHH!
People are trying to sleep.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Sentran]

Morning dawns in King’s Landing. The smallfolk are already up and busy, as there are never enough hours in the day to accomplish their tasks. A crowd gathers quickly near the front of the Red Keep, looking up at the pikes on the battlements and their new adornments. Directly next to the pike bearing the head of Eddard Stark is a pike that was empty at nightfall, but now bears the head of a red-headed woman, Catelyn Stark.
A short time later, in the area known as Flea Bottom, a call of “MURDER!” is heard. What at first appeared to be a dirty boy sleeping in an alley is soon found to be much more than that. Not a boy at all, but a young girl with short-cut hair, Arya Stark has been stabbed through the chest.

Lady Catelyn Stark (novice), Town Non-standard Protector, was killed night 2.
Arya Stark (Elethiomel), Town Eavesdropper, was killed night 2.

It is now day 3. With 15 alive, it will take 8 to lynch.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Undercover Monk]

great job guys. great job. ugh this town sucks[/b]
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Durryn]

2 people I had on my scumdar are dead now and both came up town......... Admittedly Novice was very low on the list for me, while Eleth was fairly high.

That being said, where do we look? Rather than putting the town down or belittling us, come up with a better answer.

Garou, do you have any insights?

Anyone have any ideas?

New list:
KNOWN TOWN
Me, Garou, Silver, Zag

BELIEVED TOWN
Itisally, MNO, 3iff, Amb

Everyone else is unknown or scum to me.

Last person on my scum list. Vote:Captin Aniima
_________________
If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Zag]

Well, it's not great, but it's hardly time to give up. Sentran, I know that the answer we negative before, but can we learn anything from the flavor text? Specifically, the fact that Catelyn/novice's head was piked next to Deception/Eddard's, does that mean that the scum (that is, Joffrey and his pals) killed novice? (I don't suppose you want to tell us which player was speaking during the flavortext of Ned being beheaded, eh? )

I guess we have to assume that there's a serial killer on the loose, since the vigilante is already gone. I was sort of hoping that Fritz's death the previous night was the result of a redirector having gotten lucky and redirecting the scum killer. That would have identified TWO more scum for us: the person the redirector targeted AND MNOWAX, since it would put the lie to his story. I figured, though, that if that were the case then the person would have spoken up, yesterday (since we'd nearly be able to declare victory at that point).

Speaking of MNO, does anyone have confirmation of his role claim of Grand Maester Pycelle? I'd really like to feel better about believing in his whole story.

Deception refused to tell us his night 1 investigation, but was he actually telling us with he said, "I have on very strong authority that the mason claim is legit." It's just annoying that he didn't come out and tell us, but that's typical of him, I guess. I suppose that he hoped it would encourage people to unvote him, but it mostly made me want to vote for him.

I've just skimmed through a filter of both Eleth and novice. Nothing much jumps out at me except that they both suspected MNO at the end. It didn't look as if it has the weight of any sort of investigation, though, just suspicion. I would think that Eleth learned something in his eavesdropping on night 1, but I didn't see any indication of it. If no one else has done so, I'll read through his posts more carefully tonight looking for it.

(I REALLY hate to see Arya dead -- she's my favorite character in the books.)

Post-preview edit: Durryn, Silver (or was it Garou) also confirmed Lucresia as part of their masonry. Of course, Silver's last-minute antics look a little suspicious, but I guess I'll believe that it was a legitimate simul-post. (3 minutes is pretty believable.) I'm a little surprised you see Amb as 'believed town.' I'm ready to believe that his voting anomalies are stuff that he knew about, and he lied (or at least misled us) about his lack of knowledge about them. Why would he lie (or mislead) if he is town?

[Sentran]

[MNOWAX]

[Zag]

Because I'm so much prettier.

[itisally]

I think it is interesting that two of the people I think are scummy are on Deception. I agree that Amb seems to know more than he he leads on. In fact when asked about his voting on day two he ignored the question, refused an attempt to change even when he seemed to waver. Instead he tried to convince everyone to come back. A ploy that worked and now we are down 3 townies. vote: Amb
I thought I would make my list from Scummy to Townie so you know right where I am. I preface that some of this is based on feeling.

Amb
cloudRunner
Jedo the Jedi

ohcapt13
3iff
spyrl

Undercover Monk
Durryn

MNOWAX
Zag
Lucresia
Silverfire
Garou_Kinfolk
Captin Aniima
itisally
_________________
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[cloudRunner]

i don’t think either of you (MNO or Zag) are cleared quite yet. The double kill on novice/Elethiomel is pretty suspicious, it seems like both killing parties were going after the folks who sided with House Deception, possibly a deliberate ploy to plant suspicion on members of House MNOWAX. Would scum MNO & scum Zag dare orchestrate such reverse psychology? They are certainly capable of it.

Hey UndercoverMonk, that’s rich, blaming the town for killing Deception. There was a point where you yourself were considering switching your vote to him. There’s no doubt aspects of his play were scummy. His “OMG I HAVE MORE POWERS THAN I’M ACTUALLY LETTING ON!” post left much to be desired. He was in danger of being lynched and with time running short, should’ve claimed. At least he would’ve gotten the wagon called off, gotten night protection, and been able to clear someone the following day.

oh and then there’s Durryn, who switched his vote to Lucresia at the very last minute, because for some reason joining a dying wagon on an inactive mason was better than MNO/Deception. This to me looks like a blatant act to shield himself from potentially getting flak from being on a bad lynchwagon the next day.

Based on this, I’m going to Vote: Durryn
_________________
Forever is such an unpleasant word

[cloudRunner]

and sally, i'd love to hear why you think i'm scummy.
_________________
Forever is such an unpleasant word

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Night started 12 hours earlier then I thought it would. Oh well.

I haven't gone through all of the ISOs that I wanted to, so here is who I am currently looking at and why.

On the Jadesmar lynch we had 5 conformed townies, 2 possible townies, 3 unknowns, and 1 confirmed scum.
The 2 possible are Zag and MNOWAX.
The 3 unknowns are Undercover Monk, itisally, and Jedo the Jedi (hammer vote).

When Deception was lynched, Jedo
, Captain Aniima, and Umonk were on MNO. Amb, Ohcapt13, Cloudrunner, and 3iff were on Deception. Those are the unknowns who voted for the lynch or the close lynch.

The ones I would like to look at most are Jedo, Umonk, Amb, and maybe one or two more depending on what I find. I would also like to look at who Novice did NOT vote for on day 2. And take a look at Eleths ISO as well just to see what is there.

Jedo in particular is one I'd like to see. He dropped the hammer on Jadesmar after a question was asked and before Jadesmar could answer and I can't remember if he has really contributed or if he has just been defending himself from others. Its something I'd like to find out.
_________________
Most posts made from my phone.

[MNOWAX]

Sorry I forgot to Vote: Durryn in my last post. that was a pretty obvious in my intent though.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Amb]

All I can say Sally is that I am having a terrible game. I only came on as a favour to the mod - I wasn't planning on playing. And I can clearly see that I havent helped things. Though deception is far more to blame than I.

Yes I know more than I let on. I knew my vote was going to double. I didnt know it was going to lock, and I still dont know if that was role - related or some prankster targetting me. I didnt want to shout out on day 1 that my vote was doubled, because in effect the ability forced me to indirectly claim which I was loathe to do.

This said: Both Deception and Jadesmar failed to claim properly. There is a very good chance that 1 (or both) of the 2 of them would still live had they done so.

Right now, I'm clearing all my suspicion lists on account of being total crap.

[Zag]

I see the point on Durryn, and he has risen on my scum list.

However, for right now I want an honest accounting from Amb. He said this, referring both to the double vote and to the inability to unvote.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I'll give another post tomorrow with more content, but I want to jump in now saying I don't think Amb should be a target. Roles which affect votes are very rarely given to mafia because then they would have significant power over Night and Day deaths. Sure it isn't 100%, but it's enough for me not to think him scum.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Durryn]

LOL, back to the start of day Durryn wagon? Come on folks. I am grasping at straws here, just like the rest of you. I have to admit, I was surprised to see myself so high on Allys' list.

Yes MNO, you are still an unknown to me. Your Scum/Town would be unaffected by Zag saving you. If he had saved Fritzler, would Fritzler have become town? I don't believe so, he would only have lost Godfather ability. You are however (MNO) not even close to my scum list.


I have to agree with Jedo concerning Amb. Sentran is to good at creating balance to do that to the game and I would have hidden the info from the Mafia too. The only way to do that is hide it from the town as well.

If pushed I will claim, but I believe I die the following night (if not tonight for saying this much).
_________________
If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[MNOWAX]

Unvote

okay, I'm satisfied. Well where d owe go from here? Out of the three people i thought were scumbags, two of them died. My scumdar is off, I thought we had Deception-scum dead-to-rites.
_________________
The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Amb]

Anyones Scumdar can be off when Deception behaves like he did. Sadly, for all his apparent expertise in mafia, he just simply distracted the town and didn't add anything to help us.

[3iff]

Three dead townies? Gah.

Had Deception not tried to role-play his actual character then he might not have come across as potentially scummy.

Mod: What's the status of Lucresia?

Amb and his double vote. I'm certain he knew it was a double vote from the start, and very likely he knew it would not be changeable once cast. He was quite cavalier in using his power in the secret theme game (despite making himself look scummy in the process) and I'm sure he's just doing the same thing now. As for his claim that "He's having a terrible game"...that's hard to believe.

[Sentran]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Well, I've taken the time to go back over the thread and try to gather myself since I missed a good chunk in the middle of the craziness. Here is my top suspect and the case.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I will be gone starting tomorrow until Sunday. If there is good activity today, I will be around to discuss what I brought up.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[spyrl]

Durryn, I don't know how you can put Zag on the confirmed town list unless you have a role which gives you insight into alignment. If you are basing Zag's alignment off of your post 1151, you've got it backwards. Zag's ability didn't save MNO, MNO's ability saved Zag. I also don't know why you wouldn't list Lucresia in with the other Masons, seeing as how the alignment of one is tied to the others.

I have also noticed that Amb seems to be playing in a suspicious way. I've commented on how much orchestration he has seemed to be trying to pull, repeatedly calling for people to lynch Deception, both on Day 1 and 2. I don't think it's impossible to have a double vote ability be scum. Since we don't know how many scum are in the game, there could be one or two fewer than normal and as a balancing factor, it is conceivable that we could have a double voting scum. Add that to his borderline lie:

Post 272 (bold added by me) "Maybe there is a secret twist to my role that means I cannot unvote. If so, I havent been told about it. Maybe there is a secret twist that doubles my vote. If so, ditto. It is far more likely that I am the victim of a player who targets me."

El even called him on in in the next post "Essentially what I was pointing out is that you have a history of weird play even when you're town, and asking you to reconsider your strategy if that's what you're up to now, too. The motivation for my question is clear and very much pro-town: I don't want to waste time suspecting townies."

I don't know why ally has me on the scummy end of her list, just like I don't understand how she could have Aniima listed as more towny than the Masons, unless she has information from outside this forum. Aniima may be a newbie here in the GL, but she's definitely not a newbie when it comes to the game itself and I haven't seen anything in her posts that puts such a concrete stamp of "town" on her so far.
_________________
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here!

[Zag]

I'm not convinced about itisally, but there is some good food for thought. Some of the items, though, could just as easily be taken the opposite way.

I will say that I disagree about Amb's role. Both Jedo and Durryn have made the argument that a double vote power is too powerful for a scum, but I think you are both thinking in terms of a normal Mafia game, where only a couple of the townies have power roles. Consider the roles we've seen already: 1. Needs a 2/3 majority to lynch (which directly opposes a scum double vote). 2. Gets a truthful answer to ANY yes or no question. plus vigilante, and eavesdropper and non-standard protector (whatever those really are).

I doubt Deception realized how really powerful the yes or no question power is: The trick here is to ask questions about two people at a time: i.e. Are Fred and Barney BOTH town? If you ask about two people who you believe to be both town, you very likely clear them quickly. Even if the answer is no, you've learned something valuable, and you can narrow down the next night with "Are Fred and Wilma both town?" A yes there clears two people AND indicts another; a no there is a pretty strong indicator that Fred is scum, and if he turns out not to be then you know both Barney and Wilma are.

My point is that with all the town powers out there, a double vote power, especially with the limitation that you're unable to unvote, is not at all overpowered for a scum to have. I wouldn't convict Amb based on having it, but I am willing to convict him based on him lying about it. In any case, I think pressuring him to become more forthcoming will be valuable. Confirm vote: Amb

(Also, if he does flip scum, I'm going to be taking a long hard look at you two, Jedo and Durryn.)

[itisally]

I said before that my suspension list is base somewhat on feeling, but even yesterday people were feeling like I wasn’t giving enough information. I am much more confident in the people who are town then the people who are at the top.

@Durryn: Wasn’t it MNO that saved Zag?

@ Amb: What would you consider a proper claim?

@ 3iff: I don’t think the no lying thing was role play so much ad Mod required.

In regards to Jedo (see post 1156)
I agree that Mafia having a double vote is outside of the norm. So in it wouldn’t be THE reason to think he was scum. Zag has summed it up nicely.

I think it is interesting that much of your case against me surrounds my scum read on Fritzler, who was, BTW, scum. Now that you think it was a distancing technique I feel like I should be more confident in my reads!

I laughed when you quote my statement that has a “because” statement in it and then ask me why I thought so… I told you why. It may not have been a great reason but it was the one I had.

The comment about Aniima is supposed to be jarring. I am quite confident that she is town. The fact that I can only be confident of myself and one other person (especially that early) may mean something!

I am always shy about placing my vote, voting inevitably gets me suspected (as it has now) I think it is interesting that so many people think the only way to get information is by how people vote. I have not been shy about sharing information or about how I feel, even when those feelings change along the way; as sometimes they must or we would never get a consensus. In fact my sharing has given Jedo lots of things to quote.

As for my switch to Jadesmar, I should have left my “impotent” vote on the scum rather than being pressured in to voting with the rest of the people who were wrong.

Day one I was not willing to vote for Deception just because I didn’t like him. Being a jerk didn’t make him scum. The problem with coming on strong Like Deception (or El and Novice for that matter) is that once you are wrong I tend to doubt everything that comes from him. I took that into consideration when he posted his suspicion list too. But I will say that cloudRunner and Jedo are of a Lower Suspicion not cleared according to Deception; and Amb was the one he had on the top of his list.

And for the record I would still rather lynch someone who is inactive than someone I think is town and participating. It is one of those policy things Jedo is so fond of.

SO in short Jedo is voting me because I didn’t vote for townies, I did join wagons at “non-suspicious times”, and I willing to consede that I can be wrong (he calls this inconsistency).
_________________
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.