Winter has begun... (Game over!)

[Sentran]

Day 5, 11 alive, 6 to lynch
Current Vote Count

[Jedo the Jedi]

Zag, look 4 posts before your own. If you can't figure it out, then ask a more pointed question. I'm not going to repeat myself endlessly.

cloud brings up a good point, but ohcapt's role ("non-standard investigator") gives me pause. Since he is the second, I wonder if maybe they were somehow each half of a cop or something. It's just something causing me not to give those alignment suggestions 100% confidence. I'm willing to test it though. I would like ally to come give some info first, so I suspect we'll have to wait until the weekend is over.

I wish Garou was around to defend some of those statements. Oh well.

I tried to find some link between the different deaths to differentiate the kills, but Sentran is apparently not in such a giving mood this game.

For now, I'll still go back to vote: Durryn. I went along with the ohcapt thing at the end, but I really want some actual heat put on Durryn.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[itisally]

Aniima is listed as known town in my PM; although, we cannot talk to each other directly.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[MNOWAX]

[itisally]

Yes
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[MNOWAX]

Aniima did you get the same information?
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Durryn]

Well, Jedo. This will come across as a OMGUS vote and I suppose in at least some respect it is. But it was between you, Cloudrunner, and 3iff. I think I am going to agree 90+% with Garou and his Masonic post.

Vote: Jedo the Jack booted thug
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[itisally]

It might read less OMGUS without the insulting title.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Durryn]

Just trying to be light about my vote. Didn't mean to be insulting. I have been calling Jedi, Jack booted thugs for a very long time.

Jedo, if you are offended I sincerely apologize and will endeavor not to use the phrase here again.
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[3iff]

UM: And you were so sure about Ohcapt13...

Re Ohcapt13's last post. I really wish we knew how much of that was evidence based and how much on speculation/guessing. The non-standard roles that are appearing in this game are making any analysis even more difficult.

[Jedo the Jedi]

The Aniima/ally thing is strange...

I don't get offended by things like that. Call me all the names you want, just don't insult my intelligence.

For the record though, Garou thought me the SK. If you are going along with him, I'm really not the best choice since I'm the only one who can kill the scum. Admittedly, I haven't been doing a very good job since it seems someone is blocking my kills, but it is still better to target mafia (of whom there are likely 3) than me.*

*note: everything after the "if" is spoken hypothetically based on the condition.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Undercover Monk]

Ok is there any reason that ohcapt's role could be an insane cop. that would explain why a supposed townie was on his hit list and the guy most of us feel was at least acting suspicious is on his town feel. If this is the cas we could have 2 scum in Zag and Durryn and a likely third in MNOWAX. as I have said previously I dont know the source material

so for those familar with it could you tell us if

Barristan Selmy, Knight Commander of the Kingsguard
could be insane
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[3iff]

Just had a quick look at the GoT wiki and there's no suggestion of insanity...but there's nothing to say that a 'normal' character could have a role that didn't necessarily fit them.

Amb's character (Stannis Baratheon) had the role of Angry townie (I think) but there seems to be little evidence that the character really WAS an angry townie. But I'll happily accept the words of others who are more familiar with the story (which I suspect is most people!).

An interesting idea UM. I do wish Ohcapt13 had said something earlier...

I've never 'seen' an insane cop...in the role reveal, are they normally shown as "cop" or "insane cop" or something else? I take it that an insane cop would think they were a normal cop but they get investigations wrong?

[Undercover Monk]

My gut-feel scum-o-meter

Durryn - suspicious vote switching before amb was lynched, on ohcapts town list 8/10

3iff absolutely no read whatsoever but doesnt seem as lurkish in my memory which makes me worried 7/10 pure gut

Jedo the Jedi- replaced back in for quail. supported a null read on ohcapt early to push a durryn wagon. (no claim) 6/10

cloudRunner - Some lingering suspicion but no pressure hast yet been applied (no claim). 6/10

itisally- claims that animala is town (contradicts ohcapt's list) no full clame yet 5/10

Captin Aniima- On ohcapts scum list, ally protecting as innocent. 5/10

spyrl - lurker bandwaggoned Amb. 5/10

MNOWAX -linked to Zag 4/10

Zag-linked to MNO, supposedly vanilla due to MNO's power, on ohcapt's town list. 3/10

Undercover Monk - Im innocent of course though not confirmed 1/10

Silverfire last reamaining confirmed mason. needs to stop lurking. 0/10
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

@3iff

Insane cops do not normally know they are insane, else whats the point. The fact that we have had 2 non-standard investigators lends some weight to the theory but how we prove it is a different matter.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[3iff]

UM: Thanks...Just unfamiliar with the mechanism. I read the mafia-wiki for info but that's not always as informative as a player explanation.

[itisally]

Barristan Selmy, Knight Commander of the Kingsguard
could be insane[/quote]

In my opinion, Selmy was greatly depressed by his perceived failings. I guess insane isn't too far a long shot. While he was still skilled at his job he may have second guessed himself. Latter in the series more so than in the first book. However, he is a member of the Kings Guard and I could see him being limited to seeing things that happened only in relation to that role. I am not supper familiar with the mechanics of mafia so I not sure how one would make that play out. maybe he only got location or who moved about. No telling. Skeevy Sentran

As for Stannis as an Angry Townie, the role name is more misleading than the ability. Stannis makes up his mind about things, sticks to it with little regard to the impact it has on others and is avidly against Cersi.

Of course that is all speculation on game design and I am not sure that it helps us find scum. I am feeling pretty defeated right now.

On targeting the SK first (not that I think it is Jedo), Getting a mafia member isn't guaranteed to stop a kill, getting the SK does. While he is the only one who can kill mafia at night, he isn’t really on our side; the enemy of my enemy can still be my enemy. The SK's goal is to be last, it doesn’t help him to kill off townies at this point, but he seems just as clueless as the rest of us.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[itisally]

oh... sorry my quote came out wrong.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Zag]

[3iff]

I bow to your superior knowledge. It's pretty moot though as there's no guarantee that characters and roles are specifically linked. (They probably mostly are linked...but we can't be sure).

[Undercover Monk]

well then ladies and germs we have a very big problem. Do you believe our non standard investigator Ohcapt or ally. I just cant see a mafia member so blatantly link themselves cause if you that you are tying your fates. we now have two such pairs. We need a gameplan.

Also could someone other than zag confirm his findings. if ohcapt is insane then your goose is cooked zag so we need someone whoose neck isnt potentially on the line for this issue .
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The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Zag]

You can trust my interpretations of the book. Even if I were mafia I wouldn't give anything but my honest opinion. I suppose I simply wouldn't say anything if I thought it would hurt me, but I would never say something untrue unless backed into a corner. That doesn't mean that Sentran has the same interpretation, nor that he followed the book exactly, anyway.

I am actually a little surprised that Barristan would be an investigator, and I suspect it was something other than cop (i.e. alignment) investigation. It was probably name or ability or tracking -- something along those lines. Possibly he investigated me and was told either of my vote-clearing ability or that I had no ability (anymore). Or maybe he just liked my face.

If he WERE an insane cop, I would bet that he would be the type that finds everyone innocent, since Barristan was all about duty and service without judging those he serves. That, of course, doesn't make me guilty, though perhaps you shouldn't consider me to be any more cleared than I was before (nor any less).

[cloudRunner]

From a flavor perspective, I'd hardly call Barristan insane. He's probably one of the most well-grounded individuals in GoT.

Decepticon was revealed by Sentran as a "non-standard investigator", but on Day 2 Decepticon said something to the effect of

[Undercover Monk]

[cloudRunner]

actually i bolded those lines in ohcapt's post to call attention to them. not trying to throw you guys off again
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Forever is such an unpleasant word

[spyrl]

Undercover Monk, 1427: "what I was accusing you and ohcapt of doing was bandwagoning for bandwagons sake. (I did that as well on Amb)"
Undercover Monk, 1454: "lurker bandwaggoned Amb"

If that's what you keep trying to insist that's what I did, you are vastly mistaken. As I said previously, I have never, and did not vote Amb, or anyone else, just to hop on a bandwagon because there happened to be votes on them. The fact that you repeatedly and erroneously keep attempting to staple that to me raises you higher on my scum list.

As it is, I find Garou's assessments to tie in with my own and I am satisfied with vote: Jedo

I don't think Barristan would have been an insane cop. Nothing I recall from the book would make me consider insanity as an option. Dedicated perhaps, but not insane.

As far as the "Angry Townie" goes, I think it's just a flavor type name. I don't think it is something to take literally (as in, the character from the book was an "angry" character). Stannis had a very defensive personality and was said to have "the personality of a lobster" in the show, which would fit to me with angry (just go to any seafood restaurant and look in their lobster tank, they all have rubber bands on their claws so they don't attack each other).

cloudRunner, I find your attempt to discredit Garou highly suspicious, especially as you are in his top list of scum. 1) Yes he had listed Aniima as a ? as possibility of being Catelyn, but I would guess that he could have just as easily meant Catelyn's sister Lysa. From past games I know that Garou tends to make many lists and charts and since he isn't as familiar with the books (or the TV series) as some of us are, it would be an easy thing to skip updating after novice was revealed as Catelyn. 2) Of his final assessment post via Silverfire, he mentions absolutely nothing about Fritzler so your comment about "Day 1 shenanigans" has little to nothing to offer.

And for all the confusion there seems to be regarding Deception and his role:

[Captin Aniima]

Sorry I was in New Orleans for a trip and yes I have the same info on my PM only I know itisally is town and I may not talk to her directly.
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Just sayin... The sky is blue.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[cloudRunner]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Ugh. I just realized that last bit means I can't really vote for spyrl right now. Well, I'll go back to voting for Durryn because I think that's a more pressing matter to illuminate, but my stronger desire is to press spyrl. She's been getting away with way too much in my opinion.

unvote, vote: Durryn
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[cloudRunner]

didn't finish this thought

[Undercover Monk]

[Undercover Monk]

regarding the above post:

@spyrl while this post may seem directed at you this is more a response to this whole game. I have tried to explain this concept to people before and it hasn't gone through. I thought a little roleplay would my point to be seen better and I couldnt help being snarky and sarcastic cause thats just the way I am no offense was meant.

now to the issue at hand minus the sarcasm:

the mafia will lie thats how they win the game. As a townie your job is to question everything that is said and every action that is taken. If you explain a particular a vote or quote DO NOT ASSUME YOU ARE CLEARED. If you were mafia you still could be guilty and come up with a reasonable explanation. Please do not be upset if you are asked the same questions over and over again. we may not be happy with your explanation. What spyrl did was classic bandwagonning (doesnt mean he was scume, afterall Im town and I did the same thing) That is why your vote is suspicous not because you didnt have good reason to vote that way but because, and follow me on this, IF YOU WERE SCUM that is the exact action you are likely to take.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[itisally]

Cloudrunner wanted to know if Aniima and I had something more than knowing about each other. Honestly I think commenting on it is a bad idea because we have two that are already Vanilla (if MNO and Zag are telling the truth) and Sentran says it is a non Vanilla game. I can't see making targets if we had something, which I am neither confirming or denying at this point .

As far as scum not voting for each other: It seems to me that, at this point, most of them would have voted for someone on the scum team just so that this conclusion couldn't be drawn. In a game this large it can't be hard to find people that a group hasn't voted for.

On Ohcapt: I think Cloudrunner may be on to something with the tracker idea. As a new player it may be hard to determine what it means when you learn something at night. Especially in a game like this where there seems to be little sharing (or it is so subtle that I am missing it, that happens). I recall a game where the tracker followed someone to the house of the person who was killed and got all excited about finding scum, but the roleblocker had blocked the person who died and that was who the tracker followed.

Jedo- Why can't you vote Spyrl? I have to agree that Spyrl's non-squinter seems like a distraction, but I can also understand wanting to get your ideas out there when you don't get to post often. And not that I want to put myself on the chopping block, what exactly do you hope to learn by lynching Durryn (other than I know you think he is scum and you haven't been able to convince everyone else).

I think the problem is that at some point people have explained themselves as much as they can and the town must make a choice to believe or not. You don't have to be satisfied with my explanation but I am not going to ramble on just to try to appease people who assume everyone is lying. Of course I don't assume I am cleared, but we don't need 50 pages of Durryn and spyrl saying the same crap over and over. It makes it harder to analyze.

UM, I know that you are trying to help, but it just comes off as the same condescending, how dare you not agree with me stuff that you are complaining about. When I look around to see who may be lying am looking very closely at those who do the following:
-Add nothing new
-Repeat stale arguments
-Talk about what others are doing without supporting their own observations. (ie "read through and you will see why I am accusing him")
This is by no means an inclusive list.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Zag]

It looks as if I lost a post.

The gist was: UM, I thought the term "insane cop" referred to all cops who get incorrect info, with a subclassing from there. You're right, I meant "naive cop." In any case, I doubt he was a cop at all, but some other investigative power like role/ability investigation or watcher or something. In any case, he came out pretty strongly supporting the innocence of Durryn (and, well, me, but humility prevents me...) so for now I'm going to consider that to have some weight of investigation. I find it a little suspicious that Jedo resumes his attack on Durryn without even addressing this.

Oh Capt also came out strongly against Captin A and, secondarily, itisally. I wish he had been clearer that it was actually investigation and not opinion, but I don't really see him speaking out against someone who has been cleared (and the one who cleared her) unless he had a better reason than opinion. Since I feel it is time to vote for someone, I'm going to go with what (I hope) comes from investigation:

vote: Captin A.

It actually feels OK to me -- I suspected her way back because of her interaction with Fritzler, and moved off of her primarily because she was cleared by itisally. If itisally can't be trusted, either ...

My biggest concern with this vote is that if it is wrong, a Captin A lynch doesn't provide much information, other than maybe we shouldn't trust what we think is oh Capt's investigation result. That is, Captin A flipping town does not clear itisally, since a scum might clear a real townie, especially with as vague a reason as itisally has given, just for the reflect effect. Doing it the other way, however (that is, itisally first) would clear Captin A if itisally flips town. I don't think, however, that we really have time anymore for informational lynches, and we need to go with the ones most likely to take out scum.

=======

Silver, you told us Garou's posthumous post. Did you write one, too, in case he lived and you didn't? Can we see it?

=======

UM's script was funny enough to make me want to vote spyrl. There was no actual evidence in it, though, and he immediately disavows that it was really directed at her. This last step definitely pinged my scumdar -- it's a nice ploy to have something funny and eye-catching that builds a negative opinion of one person, and then deny it was directed specifically at that person. Editorial retractions don't really unmake the negative impression that a yellow article creates.

[itisally]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[cloudRunner]

[Jedo the Jedi]

I should clarify: I find them both scummy. I just think Durryn's will be more informative now. I do think spyrl needs to be called out though, and that's what I have tried to do.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Zag]