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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....
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 Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: 361 |
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| Mackay wrote: |
| Then you watch him [Ron Paul] debate and he speaks out against gay marriage with the stock line that it's supposed to be between a man and a woman, and it's like, "but you're a libertarian! Why would you deny homosexuals the right to get married?" and there is no good answer. |
This is an old post, but something I read recently about Ron Paul's position on marriage surprised me, in that it seemed to be pretty much what I've always said, and wouldn't deny anyone the right to get married. (I trust it's clear I've never suggested denying anyone the right to do anything in the context of this discussion).
I believe what Ron Paul means when he says marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman is, first and foremost, that it is between two people, and not between two people and their government. Secondarily, most people understand that those two people are a man and a woman, but without the government involved as a third party, nothing would prevent a homosexual couple from calling themselves "married". |
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lexprod
NOT not a title
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: 362 |
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Hm, if his stance about marriage is as you say, why wouldn't he elaborate "My personal belief as a citizen is that marriage is between a man and a woman, but I would not stop towns or states whose communities believe marriage between those of the same genders should be sanctioned by their government."
Granted it's a much longer sentence than "I don't believe in gay marriage", but I think that's essentially what you stated. Also that sentence is toxic when trying to get republican votes, so there's that.
Thinking about the argument of the government naming things: Mt. McKinley in Alaska was known by the local people as Denali before it got it's Mckinley name, and Alaska has since passed state legislation to make the official name Denali again, since naming the mountain after a presidential candidate was a publicity / political ploy. However, the federal government still uses the name McKinley because Ohio congressmen fight to keep it, McKinley being born and raised in their state and they wish to protect his legacy.</thosecrazycongressmen>
_________________
I'll have a P please... |
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Zag
Tired of his old title
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| Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:15 am Post subject: 363 |
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| extropalopakettle wrote: |
| I believe what Ron Paul means when he says marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman is, first and foremost, that it is between two people, and not between two people and their government. Secondarily, most people understand that those two people are a man and a woman, but without the government involved as a third party, nothing would prevent a homosexual couple from calling themselves "married". |
I would desperately hope that Ron Paul is not that naive and facile. Even if you take the Libertarian view that there should be no federal income taxes so the issue of whether people are legally married is not significant to their taxes, the government still has to accept (or not) the legal bond between people. (And let's get real -- the IRS is not going away any time soon.)
Right now, in states that do not recognize gay marriage, if a gay man is incapacitated due to illness or an accident, his parents who disowned him 20 years earlier for being a (gasp) homosexual STILL have more say in his medical treatment than his loving partner of those same 20 years. And when he dies, they'll inherit his estate if he hasn't hired a very good lawyer. Don't think that this won't really come up, because it already has. (It has many times, this was just the first one I found in 15 seconds of Googling.)
And there are spousal Social Security benefits, adoption rights, etc. etc. Don't think that the government can just ignore the issue. They have to make a legal definition of this bond which is currently called marriage, because lots of other government decisions are based on it. |
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