Winter has begun... (Game over!)

[Jedo the Jedi]

Ah yes. My bad about the 2v2. It's good I don't think there is more than one mafia left.

A true townie. My goodness. How quickly did you go on Zag? You have these inconsistencies about who does what, and naturally, it's always in your favor. (I recognize Zag wasn't Lylo, but it could easily have been close.) I voted so quickly because I'm very confident you are it.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Come to think of it, your spin on these situations is more and more crafty. You are the last mafia. You didn't vote right away today because you had to see where the wind was going to blow. You had setup just yesterday a reason for you to go after 3iff today if that's where ally decided to go. Then you appear to wait around and not make a "hasty" vote. That's good.

You know what? Since you are the last mafia, this isn't Lylo (for all your talk about it). I can comfortably unvote knowing they will get it right tomorrow if we don't lynch you today.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[The Great Crep'er]

Again, sorry about this. Shitty timing on my part. It's Finals Week and I haven't been exactly giving myself many opportunities to goof off.

I'll post again in a few minutes.

Mod, is it possible to get a specific time for the deadline and - if you'd be kind enough - to extend it?

[Sentran]

I have not posted a specific time for day's end because I have not yet decided when that will be. With conversation picking up a bit, and one request for extending the deadline, it will at least be later in the day. If I get another request to extend the deadline, I will do so.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[3iff]

Up to this morning, I was convinced that UM and Jedo were trying something startling. They've been bashing away at each other for the last few days...why?

I formulated a thought that they were both mafia and had one problem. They could not guarantee a night kill, and that could leave them exposed. BUT, if they try to lynch each other (and make a loud fuss about it) then the survivor would appear 'clean'.

UM: "The plan Vote jedo today and if he is innocent lynch me tomorow."
Makes UM clean if/when Jedo turns mafia. (and vice/versa)

Night kills: According to the post 1 roster list, the mafia failed on night kills on 3 occasions (N1,3,6). That's a high failure rate. We've lost one non-standard protector (novice/night 2) but it seems possible that there may be another protector out there (we did have 2 non-standard investigators). With just a 57% nightkill success rate (4/7), the mafia are going to be concerned. I think the SK was being kept blocked by Aniima so I'm assuming kills on N4 and 5 were mafia.

As the town blocker (Aniima) was focussing on cloudRunner (SK) then must be some other reason why the mafia were missing their target.

But now Jedo has unvoted and I can't decide whether that confirms my theory or blows it out of the water.

[Sentran]

I have removed the deadline for the time being. I will be out of communication from Friday through Monday. If a deadline is needed, it will be imposed after next Monday.

Day 8, 5 alive, 3 to lynch
Current Vote Count

[Undercover Monk]

see this is why we need a mass claim so far only TGC abd I have full name and role claims.

Jedo and itisally I think have role only

and 3iff I dont believe you have claimed at all. So could we do that now.

alsolike I told jedo the nightkill might not mean anything if we dont lynch mafia today if their are two left we have to lynch correct. In the unlikely event that me and jedo are both mafia (and serious the whole idea while not impossible is to me very implausible) following my plan saves the town from a loss for at least a night. the scary part comes in the case of a me and itisally mafia team if thats the case my plan results in a mafia win.

If there is only one mafia left we have some room to work with. but we have to assume the worst and plan accordingly.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[itisally]

On Jedo’s Claim-
Loras Tyrell was known as the knight of flowers. He was a member of the kingsguard and then the rainbow guard. He was good looking and showy, courteous yet power hungry and impetuous. He served with Renly Baratheon as a squire and was his partner. In the book, he not always noble in deed, but not particularly awful. However, in the second book his house joins sides with the Lanisters and he gains a position on Joffery’s Kingsguard.

It isn’t a strong cliam for town, but it isn’t bad if I confine myself to the first book. However; It is the kind of roll that I could see being written with conditions like, switches sides if Lord Renly dies. Or maybe recruited by the mafia if the mafia give up a night kill. That would explain a lack of night kills….but it is convoluted and unlikely.

On UM Claim-
Sandor Clegane “the hound” Brother to the Mountain that rides (Gregor Clegane: played by Spyrl)
Savage and obedient in nature, he is a dangerous fighter and often drunk. He hates fire, his brother and knighthood. He joined the Lannister household when Gregor took over the family. Despite being part of Joffery’s guard he is often assigned to look after Sansa and finds ways to protect her from Joffery and protected her during the riots.

Again, not a great claim as he was part of the Lannister house and Joffery’s guard, however; there is a strong tie to Sansa in his actions. As far as a target, I would have thought it to be Gregor, who is already gone.

I like UM’s plan although the duality in his claim gives me doubt. It acknowledges the fact that there would be no reason for mafia to not just end it if there are two of them that are not currently on the same side. I don’t think Jedo unvoting changes that it has been in dead lock. If TGC were not a confirmed townie I might feel differently.

I would like to hear a claim from 3iff of one kind or another.

And you are correct my character is a more minor role than The Hound, but I think more involved than Loras Tyrell. Remember I was with Tyrion. I am Bronn, a low born sell-sword. I am not sure that i gave my roll though, only that it is passive.
_________________
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Jedo the Jedi]

ally, you have no thoughts on the points I made against Monk?

The Tyrells never join the side of the Lannisters. At least to me, it seems the only reason they get in bed with the Lannisters is to slit their throats at the earliest convenience.

Monk, you still haven't fully claimed. You haven't named your target. This whole claim of yours has been shady how you piece-meal it out. Somehow, they still don't see you for the scum you are.

3iff probably should claim.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[itisally]

Jedo, Check your wiki, I copied my coments from there.

I told you that I agree that scum would not hold out this dead lock if they could end the day with a town lynch at this point.


UM's plan in my View:
2 mafia left:
I know I am not scum so scum group 1 of UM's plan is silly to me.

UM & Jedo: would have ended it.

Me and Jedo: I would have ended it (and again I know I am town)

Me and 3iff: one of us moves for the win? would have done it by now.

Jedo and 3iff: keep up the dead lock & win by deadline as UM had 2 votes first. (plausable)

1 mafia left

TGC: confirmed town
itisally: I know I'm town
3iff: Possible
UM: Possible
Jedo: Possible

The fact that 3iff and Jedo maintain the dead lock supports a 2 mafia out come. and that is what I think about the actual plan, Not just UM bashing. Try arguing with the logic not just telling me it is stupid , but why if you want me to agree.
_________________
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[3iff]

I am Ser Ilyn Payne, town. I have no tongue yet may force my disability on another, but just once.
This commits them to silence for the rest of the day. (I also perform the executions as commanded by the town lynch votes but that appears to be a cameo role.)

itisally: "The fact that 3iff and Jedo maintain the dead lock supports a 2 mafia out come."
Incorrect, see posts 1682 and 1686. Currently you and UM have a lynch situation on Jedo.

Thanks for the character explanations.

UM: Time for you to reveal your last bit of information? Your target?

[Jedo the Jedi]

It's a fool-proof plan. What can I say? Only that I don't think there are 2 mafia left, and Monk is it. All he has to do is buy time, so that tomorrow he can go back on this and now argue that it was 3iff all along.

The point of all my character analysis of Monk is to show all the ways in which he has been working to setup situations in his favor, and therefore bring to light what he is doing now. I assumed you would want to continue going along with him, so I unvoted to show that I'll let you. I can't do anything now. You believe Monk so whole-heartedly, despite what I have tried to show.

For the record, my power is redirector. I said yesterday I wanted proof on 3iff rather than just putting pressure on him, so I redirected Aniima to him. Since the kill went through, that leaves Monk. (Though I suppose she could have not blocked or already been doing that herself.) I was leaving room for 3iff being scum and they just had Monk send the kill, but it does now seem improbable that they are together. I didn't bring this forward sooner 1) because I didn't think you would believe it anyway, and 2) just in case we made it to another night and it would be helpful for the remaining mafia not to know.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Undercover Monk]

Fine fine fine. sorry sentran but the only way town is going to win is if I come froward and I would rather the town won. It doesnt matter to me as I have already won the game. My target WAS Joffery Baratheon. I dont know the series but my pm said (in general terms so as not to break the rule about pm quoting) that while I work for the lannisters I actually hate them . hence why I said at the start of day I was pretty much vanilla even if Im wrong about Jedo I really dont think I am Ive already accomplished my goal.

as to Jedo's actions it seems the last desperate act of a cornered mafia 3iffs claim is believable even if his confirmation is a dead sk. If Itisally is the last mafia then I tip my cap to her cause she has played the game brilliantly. 4 mafia and 2 neutrals in a 20 person game with a vig yeah I can see that. cmon 3iff trust the plan prove your townieness.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Jedo the Jedi]

See? Why are you appealing to the mod? He should have nothing to do with how you play. This whole claim is so forced. Why would The Hound be after Joffrey? It makes far more sense for him to be after Arya or Sansa.

Of course that's what you would think about my actions.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[3iff]

[Undercover Monk]

@Jedo: Im apologizing to the mod cause he requested that I not inform anyone that I had won the game after cloudrunner was killed. hence why I held my tongue for so long. but to me I was first town then hunter. also I cant say anything about the role cause I have neither read the books nor watched the movie I don't know if hunting jofferey makes sense in the context of the character but I did get him and I have won the game so now its up to the town as to whether or not they will win as well Ive done all I could for them. Ive already led the lynch on one mafia I would like to make it two.


@3iff I obviously want you to vote Jedo. I want you to follow the plan. Your claim makes sense and Im more and more convinced Jedo is the last mafia a vote from you could end the game.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

also @3iff what was that info from the mod you teased us with last weekend?
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[itisally]

3iff, taking your vote off UM didn't end the grid lock it just moved it. Only voting ends it.

I have to say, I think it does make more sense for it to be Joffrey than Sansa. The hound came to love Sansa even though she was hopelessly naive and he hated the way Joffery was.

And even if a third party completed an alternate win condition I would still rather end it with all the Mafia dead!

I really wish TGC had some time to chime in here. I will be out of town Friday through Monday. I may be able to post a couple more times but it is unlikely.
_________________
I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Jedo the Jedi]

ally, I've said it once and I'll say it again, you aren't even trying to consider the fact that Monk is mafia. You haven't countered any of my points against him to demonstrate his townie-ness, and every bit of his claim you buy hook, line, and sinker. You start off this day saying I'm scum because I agreed with you on cloud--Hello! Aniima gave evidence, and I thought it was sufficient. Where do you want me to disagree?--and you haven't even attempted to let yourself be swayed.

This is ridiculous. I have too much pride to finish myself, and it seems 3iff at least agrees with me some. I guess I wish TGC would come in here and finish this since he's the last option.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[3iff]

UM: My teaser post...it was a delaying tactic hoping that you might panic and say something you'd prefer not to...I really didn't expect it to work, although...

UM: I KNOW you want me to vote Jedo...but WHY THE RUSH? We've just got tgc into the game, he's hardly posted anything and here you are trying to rush the day before he can make a contribution. That really does smell like mafia to me.

itisally: I'm sorry, but I still don't trust UM or his motives. I too want to rid the game of mafia but UM's continuing 'discussions' with the mod, his desire to finish the day before tgc says anything... Are you really convinced you can trust UM...just asking.

I would like to hear what tgc has to say on the matter before I make a decision. I believe that's fair and reasonable.

[Undercover Monk]

I agree it is fair and reasonable the problem being that Im not sure that we havent traded one inactive for another he joined May 16 thats 9 days and two forum pages ago. I realize trying to slog through this mess is tough but he just doesnt seem ready to take up a side and fight. Its now clear to me that I at least have itisally convinced so until TGC shows I will be forced to try and get you to see reason.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

Im gonna go back and try and point out my problems with Jedo's attacks against me starting with the last post of his to be more than vague repats of how Im always lying or telling half-truths or role speculation which again as someone who has never read the books or owned a subscription to HBO (as much as I love TV I should probably think about getting that and Tivo) I cant really answer.This was the most recent one and a good example of jedo being the actual spin master. top of page for those looking for it.

[Undercover Monk]

The next one I havent really responded to to and an easy one to answer. My answers to the quote will be added in bold.

[Undercover Monk]

And finally since it always seems to come back to this lets take one final look at the circumstances surrounding Zag's lynch.

I saw a contradiction in Zag's claim.Zag fights it. Jedo urges caution and suggests we discuss other possibilities before the deadline. He does however go back on what he was saying and hammers Zag then later accuses me of bussing Zag.

Those are the facts if anyone can refute them speak up. from this point on its analysis of the above facts and those are hwat can be attacked to the best of my knowledege everything in the precedding paragraph is true.

I see jedo's actions as contradictory. he speaks not necesarilly in defense of zag (clever) but does try and provide som sort of alibai (brutal cop anyone) for his buddy when its obvious zag is not going to wriggle off the hook he distances himself by hammering. after all the talk of caution and discussion it was jedo that stopped further discussion. Ive had a bad feeling about jedo since like day 2. I really need to start trusting my gut more.


There Im done for now will wait for the (per usual) response and twisting of my arguments by jedo. 3iff if this doesnt convince you then we are truly deadlocked.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Undercover Monk]

Well at least me and Jedo agree on something. 3iff its time to pick a side and stick with it. If you still think Im mafia then we have no choice but to wait for either TGC or the deadline to end the day and hopefully the game.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[3iff]

I feel we have to wait for tgc.

[Sentran]

It has now been one week since TGC stated he would post again "in a few minutes." He has been prodded. I am placing a hard deadline of Friday, May 1. There will be no further replacements of any characters if they go AWOL.

Incidentally, in any future games I run I may require an alternate method of contact such as an email address from the players. This AWOL business is annoying.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Jedo the Jedi]

And just like the town has done all game, we are going to limp into another wrong lynch. *sigh*
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[The Great Crep'er]

Prod received, posting amount shall increase.
_________________
Potato. Belgium. Eight. Random Lynch # Mafia awaits.

[The Great Crep'er]

Very arbitrary point, I thought I'd make here, I'm having certain difficulty trying to follow the flow of the game as well as the GoT backstory, I'll have to take your words for now, but if any true fans of the series note inconsistencies (among the living of course) feel free to post so. I am not up to speed.

In regards to game flavor:

Jedo: Interesting analysis, itisally. Of course it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for the mod to give some roles with considerable leanings towards both sides (to prevent giving an advantage to one faction over another). It would seem odd if he were hypothetically mafia to give himself mafia flavoring. Meh.

3iff: I'm not fully sure I understood that claim. When I first read it it came across to me as a silencer type role. Hence "have no tongue" and "force disability", which is typically associated with mafia. But, like I said, I am a throne noob, you are not in the hot throne, so it seems rather trivial to pursue this matter.

UM: Again, a similar situation. Not sure why there is emphasis on a mistrust for UM based a duality in claim, when the same can be said for Jedo. In the entirety of the series (which should be the context here, unless the mod notes differently) both players made connections with the Lannisters (at least mechanically, if Jedo wants to question motives here). The duality in role nature supported both by itisally (the town GoT expert, as it would seem) and of course UM himself (of course)

More to come...

[The Great Crep'er]

[Duke Gnome]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Sentran]

Correction: Hard deadline is this Friday, JUNE 1.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[itisally]

[Undercover Monk]

Not much to say that hasnt already been said we are going into the deadline tomorow so no matter what TGC does we will know soon enough which of us was lying jedo. May the best man win.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[3iff]

[The Great Crep'er]

Specific times would be nice to go with deadlines.

I apologize for dropping the ball on this one, I'll read more if there's a chance that my vote could affect things, but, understandably, there's an anxiousness to get the game over with.

[Sentran]

~10 hours until deadline.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland