SURVIVOR MAFIA- TOWN WINS reunion show

[Deception]

MNOWAX: How many people are in your mason group?

If you've said this already then just point it out for me please.

[MNOWAX]

just myself and one other person.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Deception]

Vote MNOWAX

If he's town, Zag is scum. If he's scum, there's still a strong chance of Zag being scum, but MNOWAX town confirms Zag as scum.

When I say that, I don't mean that it's my opinion.

[Deception]

Actually, MNOWAX scum makes me feel better about Zag town so change that, but that's just in my opinion.

[jadesmar]

[Deception]

[jadesmar]

[Zag]

[The Great Crep'er]

Happy birthday, Lifeinmomland!

I will quickly try to add one more post before the day ends. I have a feeling a MNOWAX lynch is imminent being on L-1 and spying ralphmerridew lurking around the Mafia Game pages.

I still am not finding much reason to unvote him. A 2 person mason group is pretty useless. But I don't want Day 2 to be so MNOWAX-centric that we lose a full grasp of the potential candidates here. Back in a second, hopefully.

[ralphmerridew]

I've seen two-person groups with extra abilities (Scotland Yard in Mafia 48), and I've seen two-person mason lodges in mini games...


FOS: Sentran. Captin Aniima has 6 posts, not 13.


MNOWAX, name your buddy.

I doubt it's Zag, who shrugged off "aidjoewbrwsdfadsuytertrhfsrhfgadgffsgjiloxzdfgdsgdfssesawe"'s accusation.

It's certainly not amb.

It might be Sentran, aside from "My other growing concern is that MNO is uncharacteristically quiet. As a town player he is always loud and random, and only as a scum has he been quiet and reserved, in my experience."

It's not Liml; you voted for her in 238

It might be Captin Aniima, except for post 410.

I know it's not me.

It's not Jedo 2; you voted for him in 383.

It's not jadesmar, who voted for you in 386.

It's certainly not "aidjoewbrwsdfadsuytertrhfsrhfgadgffsgjiloxzdfgdsgdfssesawe", the way he's going after you.

Nor TGC, who voted for you in 229.

And it's probably not Mackay, who made the "I find MNOWAX scummier" post in 227.

[The Great Crep'er]

@Deception Sketchy as always. But with such gusto allegations it leaves one to wonder what extra leads you may have. Coming out and claiming is one thing. But just coming out just enough to leave you conspicuous to the mafia is another. If you're going to hint, I say you may as well come out full monty. No use in trying to rationalize your vote with your powers and being vague about the scenario. It will be hard for any town to see eye to eye with your reasons.

Although, in light of your earlier questions to MNOWAX, I have a feeling I might know what type of role you might be, and I'm not wholly sure if I should share those theories if you are going to stay tightlipped about your role. This limbo state you've chosen is both risky (if you're truthful) and confusing (on the phrasing).

@The Claim: Dubious. Just on principle of the role name I want to say Rudy is the more trustworthy of you two, based on my expansive knowledge of the show. (Been watching since I was a wee tyke in 2000, beat that. ) He was a solid vote, and in interviews and on the show, he stated his rock solid allegiance with Rich. Rich on the other hand had deals with Rudy and Sue and constantly schemed to get rid of Kelly, the immunity queen, and ultimately put his F2 ally (Rudy) in a fight where a 72 year old man had to fight against a strong, nubile rafter to keep his alliance alive.

@ Jedo - I will add to the complainers (sorry) and disagree that if we wanted to avoid the cop we should have lynched the masons. If you had claimed, who knows what could have happened, there is only one definite, that an investigative role, which an uninformed majority desperately needs, would have survived D1. Compare the two scenarios and in which one you were more likely to survive. At L-1 with so many people free to switch their votes or at N1 where there is at least a chance, no matter how small or large it may be, that there is a protection role in our midst with your role being common knowledge. Spilt milk, regardless, I wouldn't treat it as success when we don't know if failure awaited us once we switched off you and onto some other hapless soul. I felt your lynch was one that would have been less beneficial (and as we saw later, least beneficial so far) to town, and that the lurkers and rash posters needed more pressure to either be reformed or ejected.


@ Mackay - If you have a complaint about Jedo's principles I'd ask him about his previous games. I had a similar grievance to air on the subject of Jedo's BWing for the sake of BWing and he seemed to explain it based on the fact that because town has so many limitations on day 1, they will try to bargain with it based on information they received in previous games. It isn't until he sees a reason to change that he will shift his paradigm.

@Sentran - I would like to urge a bit of caution on your part. There is something to be said for "Quality over Quantity". And your quote "I would like to add Captain A to that list" just set a slight twinge down my spine. Connecting to Jedo's reason for his growing unease about ralphmerridew would be valid, if you knew why he was feeling unease. It didn't seem all that lucid to me, nor explicitly connected to post count.

Small Correction: Mackay questioned MNOWAX's claim timing and said he only had two votes. At the time of that post he actually had 4.

Yeah, yeah, another novel by TGC. In this sequel, the plot twist is that the guy doesn't get the girl, but gets the dog instead.

[The Great Crep'er]

Raised eyebrow: ralphmerridew Hard to see the merit in outing a potential mason partner. I feel like we've given scum more than enough town leads. MNOWAX himself stated that the union incorporated both town safe and suspicious elements. Is the reward worth the risk?

[Sentran]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Reading back over ralphm's posts, the content is mostly information and innocuous asides. It's a bunch of stuff that really doesn't give a firm position and is not indicative of alignment. It's the sort of things (theory, speculation of game setup, meta-information, etc.) which I prefer to talk about when I am scum. Plus, he's hovering right at the lurker line.

We have a winner in my book. vote: ralphm
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[MNOWAX]

rm: I'm not outing my partner.

obvious townie fishing is obvious.

Unvote, Vote rm
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Amb]

[Amb]

And FOS rm. If I were to unvote MNO, a vote on rm actually isn't a bad play.

[Sentran]

The request from rm puts him at the head of my FOS list, and just after Zag. After that is Captin A and then LIML for their lurkiness.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Mackay]

WTF?

I thought MNO's partner had made themselves obvious, but now it really seems like they're... not.

I have no frickin' idea what is going on, but I'd love to hear what Zag has to say about it!

@Jedo: I hope I wasn't being condescending with explaining the JT/Stephen stuff - like you said, you're not a regular watcher and there are plenty of others in the same boat, so I wanted to give the town my flavour-based reasoning for trusting Amb. My intent was to be clear and thorough, but it might have come across as patronising as a result
@Creper: I have no problem with anyone's principles, I have a problem with indiscriminate applications of them. I certainly don't disagree that I'd rather have fewer day 1 claims in general, I just was unhappy with sacrificing a cop for it. As far as I knew this discussion was over anyway.
Also, how the hell did I miss two votes? I was very hung over yesterday, I must have been drinking whatever Amb had on day 1.

As for ralphmerridew, he earns my second WTF of the post. On the one hand, asking outright for the identity of a second mason is an openly non-town action, almost universally. On the other, it looks so anti-town that I have trouble believing that an experienced player would do it as mafia! Like, a mafioso writing a post would be conscious of "stuff that makes me look scummy" in a way that a protowner who doesn't have to worry about it wouldn't. It's hard to think that this would slip under the radar of someone who was posting self-consciously.
There is also an extenuating circumstance in this case to which I am sympathetic - if MNO and his partner are actually masons, then masons in this game are not necessarily pro-town. I am pretty well convinced that MNOWAX is anti-town (through no fault of his own really, this is more based upon the stated alignments and flavour of the two claimed mason groups revealed so far). If this is a gambit by two mafia, or if MNO is outright lying and doesn't actually have a partner, then it is beneficial to the town to attempt to discover the identity of any other person involved. Personally, I've convinced myself that MNO is likely evil with a town partner, so I don't like outing the partner, but it would be a little hypocritical of me to consider rm as guilty for treating MNO as guilty.

Happy birthday, LIML!

[itisally]

Saving My BAH! for a Happy Birthday LIML!


Good luck everybody, and for goodness sake claim if its close!
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Lifeinmomland]

Thank you for the birthday wishes! I am planning on going back over rm and Deception's input since several people have mentioned they are wiggy about them but today is my birthday so ... later!
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Who is John Gult?

[ralphmerridew]

1) Every living player has made some sort of distancing action against MNOWAX.
2) There is already a confirmed non-MNOWAX mason group.
3) The other mason group was given explicit confirmation of their partners.

It makes me very suspicious of MNOWAX. I don't think MNOWAX can name a mason buddy.

[Undercover Monk]

Slow News Day

[Sentran]

Tough decision...
2 on my FOS list and the person I'm voting for are not voting anyone. One of my other FOS is voting Jedo, and one voting MNO. Considering the one who is essentially a cleared townie is voting for MNO as well, I suppose the decision is not all that hard. Here's hoping.

Unvote, Vote: MNOWAX
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[The Great Crep'er]

Objective for Day 3: Make it Day 1 + 5 pages

I'll agree in a heart beat that MNOWAX was on the forefront of suspicion but I can't help but feel we are cheating ourselves out of more discussion time and time with some more valuable players and analysts. Here's hoping we don't suffer any considerable losses tonight. *crosses fingers*

[Deception]

[The Great Crep'er]

[Sentran]

Since night has not yet fallen, I will explain that my reasoning for doing this are twofold. I believe Amb's claim, as it was verified by Garou's death. I also have played on the same side as Amb before, and I trust his judgment. I still like Zag as a lynch, but the only other person who has voted him on day 2 changed his vote, and Zag does not appear to be forthcoming with his promised posts. Thus I did "follow" Amb onto the vote of MNO, since most of my suspects are lurky non-voters. Hard to get a lynch that way.

My second reason is that I will be moving this weekend, so having night fall will remove the need to constantly check my phone to make sure I'm not missing any important posts. It might be considered a selfish and out-of-game reason, but it's my choice.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[The Great Crep'er]

[Lifeinmomland]

Hmm. Packing all day so I have not gotten to the review yet but night will give me an extra couple days. Here's hoping I survive. I hope I am right that MNO is a baddie of some sort. To me all the signs were there but I was hoping someone would offer a different POV just to see if what I was seeing stood up to scrutiny..
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Who is John Gult?

[MNOWAX]

Okay, you guys got me. I am Richard Hatch. I'm a cult leader. I culted one of the many masons last night. There at least three mason groups known to me. If I'm not going to win this game, I am DAMN sure not going to let the scum win! It should be obvious who I cult ed last night if you read my posts , especially D1.

Good luck town, and I wish you all well!
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Deception]

[Deception]

If he flips cult leader, lynch Zag tomorrow.

[MNOWAX]

Why Zag? I culted someone else. Besides, even If i did cult zag, he's no threat anymore. shouldn't you be looking for scum that can kill you?
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[The Great Crep'er]

[Jedo the Jedi]

MNO, that's bad form. If you're being honest, your recruit could still win the game for you, so you've basically just tried to make him lose too. Even more, your play and your stated goal are at odds. Nothing changes for you if your recruit doesn't win (you lose), and you've given the town something to divide our focus.

Anyway, I'm ready for some conclusion to the day.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Deception]

I guarantee you that if he's a cult leader he culted Zag. It's good to get rid of anti-town factions early.

[jadesmar]

[Deception]

[jadesmar]