SURVIVOR MAFIA- TOWN WINS reunion show

[Sentran]

Unvote, Vote: Deception
I've finished reading through the thread, and I still buy rm and Elethiomel as scum, so I'm hoping my read on Deception as #3 as well as a Mason is correct.

Incidentally, I have 2 idols, and have had that number since the beginning of the game. I have not used any yet because I was unsure upon whom to use it. I expected that gifting an immunity idol would cause that person to believe me town, but I was not sure enough of anyone as town yet. I would have used one on Amb night 2 since he was all but confirmed town, but then MNO flipped cult and I still believe that Amb would have been the best choice for a cult recruit.
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Jedo the Jedi]

What I don't get is why/how the Sentran/Elethiomel cross claims are so identical. If Sentran is lying, why would he claim the same ability? Why do we believe that Crowley should be giving out fake idols? Am I missing something here?
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Elethiomel]

What's with all the talk about not risking a no lynch? Nobody is voting no lynch.

[Deception]

vote Sentran

Lynching me when the only times I'm scum is when Zag is too is silly especially when there are situations wherein Zag is scum that I am not. It is simple probability and the error you guys are making is elementary.

[Amb]

I agree. The probability lies best with Sentran. And the cross claim of ability right now makes very little sense.

Unvote; Vote Sentran

Enough of this nonsense.

[Amb]

[Zag]

That's the most suspicious thing that you've done and said, Amb.

1. If that's what you think, then why would you switch?
2. It's just wrong. There's nothing in the rules about a minimum number of votes, unless the mod has added it since the first to posts.

It makes me think that you're trying to scare people into voting for Sentran.
_________________

[Zag]

* to = two
_________________

[Sentran]

Amb's unvote and vote after the lynch vote had been cast seems awfully fishy to me. Yes, I realize I was the hammer vote, unless something has interfered with the vote count. If that leads to my subsequent lynch either today or tomorrow (should Deception AMAZINGLY flip town), I am ok with that. As has been stated, my death will at least prove who the liar is, and my power is esoteric to the point of near useless anyway. While I'd rather continue playing, if my death leads to the death of scum and the eventual win of town, so be it.

If my unofficial vote count is correct,

[Undercover Monk]

Whoops Day is over

Deception is lynched. I will post a lynch scene later here is the final vote count. For your info Deception Was Jerri Manthey a town alligned mason.

[The Great Crep'er]

Hopefully the mod does not kill me for posting at night. (Crossing my fingers) Just wanted to let everyone know I'm still active. (Faced a major setback at home, personal IRL shit, motivation to go on the internet was a bit subdued, blah, blah)

Looks like I've got some catching up to do...

Night!

[Undercover Monk]

Im thinking about it TGC. please do not not post at tnight you have been warned. No modkill for the sake of it didnt deal with in game matters. Im super busy right now so I may not actually get a real lynch scene or I may combine it with the death scene. But one game announcement before I lock the thread.

Amb has won immunity he may not be blindsided tonight
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Undercover Monk]

Double Tribal (Lynch and night kill)

As the haggard survivors make their way up to the top of tribal cliff Probst smiles its at this point in the season he really enjoys his job. Torturing these people is one of lifes great joys for him. He welcomes them and describes in great detail the delicous T-bone he had the interns prepare for them today.

"Anyway," he continued, "Have you come any closer to figuring out who you are?"

suddenly two voices rang out "I'm Bob Crowley". Eeveryone stared at Sentran and jadesmarElethiomel.

"Well you can't both be Bob." said Jeff helpfully while he grinned. He could sense a huge rating boost coming. "So do either of you feel like it could be you that takes the plunge tonight?"

"Nope" said Elethiomel "everyone pretty much thinks Deception should go."

"but why..."

"Basically cause of the name, clearly he has something to hide."

Jeff look confused but shrugged his shoulders deciding a vote was not necesary and shoved a struggling deception off the cliff where he landed with a thud on the rocky bottom of the recently drained cove. "Yeah I forgot to mention that the electricity shorted out and our ravenous beast budget was cut so we just drained the bay and decided to let gravity do our work for us. Also we decided to make this a double tribal by secret pre-tribal vote so ralph rmralphmerridew3iff you are heading home. And by home I mean to a grissly painful death. Thanks for playing." Jeff shoved the hapless castaway off the precipice chuckiling to himself.

"Oh yeah a few notices will be waiting for you back at camp at tree mail so get going. I'm ready to go back to my hotel room."


The remaining Survivors headed back to camp. Once there they found this notice tacked to a tree.

[The Great Crep'er]

I should have been here, more on the ball, to make sure that one of Sentran or Elethiomel got lynched. I'd like to take my share of the blame now. We're very lucky a mafia (I presume it's a mafia role, and I only say that I presume because it seems haphazard to be confident that this game has anything --- at the start of the game I was leaning back on a no-cult hypothesis due to the player size) died tonight. I'm only concerned that the mafia and cult would be in big enough factions to make some sort of coalition. And we are currently very close in number to a situation where that is a possibility.

Unsure now of whether to dig around in the pile of remaining people FMPOV or to take out one of the Bobs today. MNOWAX's claim of having culted at least one more person makes me concerned that they are still out there. But with the number one cult lead having just been a rowdy townie, it douses the flame to say the least.

[The Great Crep'er]

That reminds me, was the fake idol received?

[The Great Crep'er]

Never mind, upon closer reading, found out that it was. Can't edit posts, so I have to make this third one. Sorry.

[Elethiomel]

To recap, after a very long night:

Zag is lying. Deception said they could talk pregame, and Zag said they could not. Their interaction has been truly weird, but no matter what they've been up to, it's almost inconceivable to me that they are both town.

Sentran is lying. He claims to be Bob Crowley, but he's not. My fake immunity idol ability is such a perfect fit for Bob Crowley that he apparently decided to copy it, except of course that in his version, it's a night-time ability, making it much harder to confirm.

In addition, there is the curious interaction between Sentran and Zag that I have previously pointed out, indicating a link between the two of them.

So, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Vote: Sentran.

[Zag]

We've already established that Deception was lying. I'm not completely sure why, other than he general personality. If you decide to believe him, then you should believe that I'm a townie investigator, which he claimed. Of course, that's not true, I am a townie with a much less interesting ability (which I still don't plan to share).

I agree that we have to lynch one of the Bob Crowleys today. I still find Elethiomel the more suspicious of the two, but I could be convinced otherwise. However, meanwhile, vote Elethiomel
_________________

[Elethiomel]

He said that claim was part of a plan that the two of you had hatched.

Your conflicting claims about whether or not you could talk pregame surfaced after you had both abandoned any real or pretended belief that the other was innocent.

So why would he, as a townie, lie about being able to talk to you pregame?

[Zag]

It seriously beats the heck out of me why he did it, but he was lying a LOT. There are some clearly documented ones which everyone already knows about. There were more than you'd have to believe me to know that they were lies, but they were. Frankly, some of them just left me baffled -- I have no idea why he would say them, whether he was town or cult or scum. After all, once his lies got me killed, he'd be next, I assume.

I stick with my assertion that he STARTED the game as a townie, which I had concluded from his reaction to Amb's claim. I still think that he was converted, either by MNO into the cult or into the scum or some other group. I am forced to believe that the mod doesn't inform us of these conversions, and only tells us the person's original role and alignment.

Or maybe he just went off the deep end. It seems less ridiculous a concept today than it seemed last week. (If you're not a GL Moderator or Admin, this might not make sense to you, and I'm afraid that I'm not going to explain it.)
_________________

[Amb]

[The Great Crep'er]

???????

The most convoluted explanation for why Deception would lie. As far as I'm concerned, the only lie we knew he told was about you being his guilty. His role is now public information. We have no reason to not believe him. (Ignore the double negative there for a moment) If he has lied about your role or any other aspect of your mechanic without the use of a posting restriction or some other mod instated role mechanic, then he should be blackballed from this forum. I have not known Deception for very long, but on basic common sense, I have to believe that he would not be as dickish as to screw his own team like that.

I don't see how witholding your role info right now is going to aid town that much, especially in the face of so much vagueness about your alignment and aggression noted from a damn near confirmed town member. (Non-visible cult? That's like unlynchable mafia. Ridiculously OP. But for the sake of keeping myself unbiased I do want to at least take into consideration but not without the hugest grain of salt in my possession) I don't think you're going to have much choice on that matter. It sucks, but it was your "partner" that went on the fritz. A case of bad luck.

Basically, I don't see how we can let you off the hook for now without at least some semblance of a peace/trust offering.

I have a thought, though. And that is that Colby and Jerri, while they hold a friendly reputation with one another in the outside world, during the first two seasons they played together, Colby was very intent at aiming for Jerri and Jerri had managed to vote out Colby twice.

If there is some way I can get the information I want to make you seem like less of a town threat, while still compromising to your want to keep stuff under your hat, I'd be more than willing to hear it. If you can throw us a bone, an ounce as to what it is about your role that makes it Colby and any qualities it has in relation to Jerri, that would be a huge boon, making the picture a bit clearer.

Again, if we want to keep all our town resources up and running, I think it would be a good idea to let a possible vig role (we know something took out 3iff last night) take out Sentran tonight and for us to go for possible brethren of MNOWAX. We are still at war with two apparent anti-town forces so far. Let's double our efforts.

[The Great Crep'er]

And there's no condition (apparent anyways) that says you can't be culted, Zag. It sure seems like something happened to one of the two of you to inspire that militant behavior in each of you. And we hear that Deception was town, ignoring your proposition for just a moment.

[Amb]

TGC: Theres every possiblity that a vig role was 1 shot.

We need to split Sentran and Elethiomel. 1 of them is scum.

Regarding the cult member - if there even is one. It's really hard to identify said player. Why? Because they are probably town, and want the scum dead as we do. So it makes it very unlikely for the player to go overboard like Zag and Deception did.

Our situation is this:
1. We probably have 2 scum still alive.
2. There could be 0 or 1 Cult. The cult recruit could have failed:
...a) Because MNO was roleblocked by the long dead Sugar?
...b) Because MNO attempted to recruit scum (unless that worked)
...c) Because the approached person couldnt be recruited or got a choice.

With the probablity of 2 scum alive, we need to lynch 1. Then the final killer needs to kill the cultist (if any) because we double our chances of a lucky hit. I do not want to be in a final 3 situation and deciding who has been cult since day 1 - because that will almost be a coin toss. A cult is town for all intents and purposes - when it comes to day they should be nearly indistinguishable.

[Mackay]

*both waking up and catching up*

Amb, was the 'fake' idol related to your immunity last night? I could see it being a JT thing too, except I think you said you had no powers. Don't remember for sure, though.

Sorry if you've already answered this, just trying to wrap my head around stuff before I keep reading. I still can't believe Deception was town. Luckily the extra long night has given me time to stop fuming about it. =)

I think that if Deception wasn't cult, we're probably in no danger of a cult that's increasing in size. All of my cult-fears were based on the fact that I was CONVINCED Deception was evil. My initial reaction is to believe that he was telling the truth when he said Zag got culted (though I've no idea what happened the next day, if that's true). However, even if that is the case, there is zero incentive for the cult to work with the mafia. Eliminating the mafia is a lone cultist's best chance at survival. If there is still more than one cultist, they have even less incentive to help the other anti-town team. Zag, similarly to Amb, is near-confirmed nonmafia, regardless of his actual alignment. His input will be valuable.

So yeah. It's likely to be Sentran or Eleth for me. I want to reread their posts now that we have the identity of a mafioso. Yesterday I was mentioning that it looked like either a Sentran/Aniima or a Eleth/rm pairing. I want to double-check that, as pretty much all of my assumptions have been based around Deception being evil.

[Amb]

Elethiomel - did you know the Idol can be used on yourself, or used on another person? And if so, do you know if they get told that they are 'immune'?

[Amb]

Scratch that. Give me a 2nd idol, and I'll use it on Zag straight away.

[Zag]

[Amb]

Zag. If Elethiomel gives me the 2nd idol, and I use it on you - can you let me know if you get a message announcing your immunity? If you don't - it ruins a theory. If you do - I think I know scum #2 for certain.

[Mackay]

I would like to hear what Zag and The Great Creper think about players who are not Sentran or Elethiomel (particularly TGC, given that he has knowledge of the show), if that's okay with you two.

I'd also like to hear from Captin Aniima. At all.

[The Great Crep'er]

Okay...I was going through a lot of situations in my head about how we should go forward with this that and the other.
The bottom line is this: Sentran does not need to be lynched today.

I was thinking about how I could use my own knowledge of my own role to my advantage. The fact of the matter is I have reason to believe that I was the one responsible for killing 3iff off last night, and the reason for that is because I have a role different from the one revealed to you all. That's right, I lied to you all.

What am I really? I am the redirector. (UM's going to kill me for dancing on this razor thin edge between description and outright quoting, but, heck, I am a committed visitor to the Mafia Games forum that is alive in this game, a more rare commodity by the minute. Sorry Monk.) In plain english, I can take one other player each night in the game and replace their choice with my own preference.

You might ask how this might have benefited. Well, last night, I chose Sentran and replaced his choice (whatever it was) with 3iff. The next day, 3iff winds up dead and is mafia. The result paired with my own choice paired with tells brought against Sentran, leads me to believe that he is indeed a killing role. (Mafia aligned? A very real possibility considering he lied about his role or just conveniently omitted the fact that he can kill people.)

That brings me to my strategy:
-I initially lied about the role for obvious reasons. I thought I was very close to being strung up, and in attempt to be conservative and not even want to risk a speed D1 lynch (Which has occurred in games before) I forked out a claim that would discourage voting, a thinly veiled attempt, as Deception can attest to that. It would be a role mafia might attempt to stray away from in hopes of either circumventing my fictionalized power or using it to their benefit or ignoring me altogether and frying bigger fish. If I had claimed my original role, I think I would have been dead the next night no matter what. If you want to criticize me for fibbing, fine. But it was a fib for the town.
-I was hesitant to claim today in the hopes I could dig up a fake vig claim. But how would I go about this without sounding anti-town? "Heeeere viggy, viggy, vig." My hand was forced.
-That brings me to this: Considering I can manipulate action, I think it would be very beneficial if we let me play with Sentran for just one more night. Should I survive today's lynch (Which may be in doubt, considering I just revealed my dual nature) I will force Sentran to kill himself or force him to kill a better option if town happens to advise one.

It's your move. Personally, I would advise any of Amb, Eleth, or Zag to unvote so we can further spread town influence in the game. With Sentran's fate already decided (if you choose to go along), there is little reason to go waste an opportunity on him. It frees us up to possibly nab, with any luck, cult or extra mafia. And I would discourage the shrugging off of a notion of remaining cult, in light of MNOWAX's role and the fact that he had a night at his disposal.

I realize a late "re-claimer" isn't exactly ideal this far into the game. I was hoping to survive as long as I could, but now it comes to the point where I must sacrifice my own survival for the good I can accomplish for town. Ask not what town can do for you, ask what you can do for town. And so, here it is. My strong power at your wielding and past night choices readily available if needed.

[Mackay]

...

Assuming this is true for a minute, now that you've posted it in public, what's to stop the mafia from just having someone else perform the kill? (If there is another member, I guess, but 2 seems unlikely so I'm pretty sure they could do that.)

I cannot tell whether this reads like a gambit or not, though my initial reaction is suspicion. "Hey guys, this person is totally mafia so we shouldn't kill him because I can totally control him"? I guess I'm glad I hadn't started rereading Sentran and Eleth's posts yet - looks like I'll be slogging through the whole thread again.

What is your role name, TGC? I remember being suspicious from day 1 about you roleplaying Rupert after your claim, but breadcrumbing Crystal Cox before it. What is your real role name?

[Mackay]

*comes back* Oh, and I would still like to hear your opinion of everyone else, TGC.

[Sentran]

Fascinating turn of events. First off, kudos to the Vig/whatever that got 3iff last night. If anyone has knowledge that TGC is in fact lying, keep it to yourself. His claim is as skeevy as they come, and also from a self-proclaimed liar. That being said, I should be the lynch choice for today. I dropped the hammer on Deception, who proved to be town. Then at least you will kill off Elethiomel tomorrow after I flip town. I am also interested in Zag's innocence given that Deception was town.
Vote: Elethiomel
_________________
Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Amb]

I have reason to believe I know the third scum. I need that 2nd fake idol to prove it

[3iff]

Well, that was a short game...
Bye.

[Elethiomel]

I will temporarily Unvote, just to make sure we don't rush into night again before everybody can check in.

[Amb]

If I use the final idol on Zag, I think I can prove something.

[Elethiomel]

Why Zag? And Mackay, why is Zag near-confirmed nonmafia?

[Mackay]

I was basing that assumption on the fact that they claimed to be masons, and Deception has turned out to be a mason. As it stands, I think Zag is most likely non-town, but not mafia - based upon Deception's accusations against him at the end of day 2 and his turning on Deception during day 3. I haven't ruled it out altogether because there is always the chance of a traitor mason, but I don't think it's likely with the "Colby" character, especially if Jerri (the far more likely of the two to be a traitor) is innocent. He can't have lied about his role name, as Deception would have pointed it out. (I hope.)

As for your earlier question re: what I think of an anti-town counterpart to your claimed ability now that Parvati is out of commission, I don't know! I really thought I was onto something with the Parvati thing. Especially given that Sentran claimed to have a near-identical ability. If one of you had claimed that you had to spend time making idols, I would have believed that potential Bob and voted for the other. Unfortunately the two of you claimed basically identical powers of "fake idols I've had all along", so *shrug*. Parvati's most brilliant move ever was playing two idols on other players, I don't know anyone else who fits "two idols", fake or real, as perfectly as Bob and Parvati respectively. (James Clement got voted off with two idols, I guess.) I'll think about it some, but the reason I felt comfortable discussing that theory was because it seemed obvious to me, or at least very strong. I don't want to speculate to a point where I start stretching characters to fit.

Amb keeps referring to your idols as fake, did he receive proof that this is the case? Why did he get a public declaration of immunity?

Haven't yet worked up the stamina for a reread.