Do enough people know what Serious Discussion is about?

[MatthewV]

I want to leave it alone for a long while. But I also want to have it grow. And I cannot do both at the same time.
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[extropalopakettle]

Matt, we've always had serious discussions here in off topic (and in SAC). Along with the "fluff" topics. I enjoyed the serious ones more. Yes, we have less of them, but we still have them, and have had them very recently. Heavy handed moderation and censorship isn't going to help. We've always dealt with one another by talking to one another. Sure, sometimes tempers run high, and when they do, we can take a look at why. I took your "Serious Discussions" seriously, at face value, but I began to suspect, with good reason, that you did not. Right or wrong about that, I had good reason, and I attempted to address it. We can go over it as much as you like, and I'll treat this as a serious discussion, and you can call me on it if I don't. If you want to discuss a plan for some sort of serious discussions renaissance here on the GL, I'm all for it, and I think it has great potential for the GL. I might even see where you're coming from. Intellectual people, like the 30 or 40 active members that used to be all there were here in the beginning, might find it worthwhile, and yes, there were times when off-topic was (maybe still is) 95% the opposite of that sort of thing. But we can't make it happen by opening a new board, ruling it with an iron fist, scattering some random seed topics, hoping they'll grow, and nuking anything that doesn't measure up, especially just in one person's eyes. I hope that helps.

[MatthewV]

Off Topic is about...

"I don't care about this ^ but I still care about you"

I don't have time to read all the time. But I want to write and create all the time. Some of my writing is good, some is bad. I am enough of a person to know which is creative and which is mundane.

So how is the weather? Clear sky, a few clouds over here. You?
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[MatthewV]

One thing that is hard for anyone to grasp-- that area isn't for the people of today. We love Off Topic too much!
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[extropalopakettle]

See, I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say.

[MatthewV]

One question:
who is justindl?
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[extropalopakettle]

[extropalopakettle]

Wow, don't ask how I dug this up: http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=23467#23467

[extropalopakettle]

It's pretty damned amazing to read some of that thread, and the concerns in 2001 that the place was getting less interesting (less serious). And I agreed with it back then.

http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=23437#23437

[extropalopakettle]

I agree with this too: http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=23453#23453

[Death Mage]

Dammit, Pablo and I are not here to fight for your amusement!

Edit: Actually, I haven't seen Pablo around in a while. Did something happen to him that I missed? I know he moved a bit ago, has he not been on since?
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[Mackay]

People have been bitching and moaning about how the GL isn't what it used to be for at least the last ten years. MattV just happens to have admin powers, and the willingness to use them to make a forum that fits his idea of what the GL should be.

I've been reading too. I didn't like the idea, but I wanted to give it a chance. By the time I had the spare time to get into a debate, I realised it wasn't the kind of environment where my posts would be welcome.

I like the discussions here. I like being able to have a conversation. We engage on a very personal level. I tend to mostly get in debates about stuff I really care about, and therefore I usually end up getting furious. This place is full of brilliant and incredibly stubborn people who will do things like obfuscate, evade, expound at length, fill posts with impenetrable jargon, etc, in order to "win" an argument, and it's frustrating. I love being able to express that. I love having a heated, passionate argument, even though I get mad at the time. That's the fun of it! It's also made me much better at calling out jerks in real life, and much better at arguing my case against them.

I wasn't aware that I was part of the problem as MatthewV sees it, and I wish he would have maybe requested that I tone down the "hostility" rather than taking unilateral action to remove 'serious' debates from a place where I feel welcome and comfortable to somewhere that explicitly excludes styles of posting I like to use.

Edit: Hm. This isn't the thread in which I meant to make this post. The threads about SD are much of a muchness though. Sorry for the self-indulgent talk about my feelings on the matter, all.

[Jedo the Jedi]

I did wonder if some of your posts fit in this conversation, Mackay, but I was mostly thinking about our small spat in the Obamacare thread. I was not offended by that, and I really feel your "calling me out" challenged me to be a better participant in threads like that. If that's something people have a problem with, I'm sorry. Maybe there are better ways, but it hasn't been bad for me. *shrug*
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[MatthewV]

extro you see some people want a place make one pointless comment. Some people want a place to make long discussions. I want off topic, you want long discussions. But if you don't read everything you don't really know what is being read.

See, I ignore your posts because had infinite time to explore good ideas. Or ignored mine because I had petty experiences as a teenager. You can change, neither can I.

And we shouldn't change.

So, you are wise and much older then me. But see, I grew up with the internet. I see computers and the world very differently. You came here because it was fun-- on the internet you can be anyone! You can distance yourself.

To me, computers are a distraction. Their isn't enough time to get out into life.

You act a filter to me. If you make posts that you write, I will respect your username as much as I respect a person. Or even more so. The ideas for Serious Discussion came from the GL because Matthew Van Atta used the internet to find puzzles about 10 years ago. I used other forums before then and learned from them.

Today your observational knowledge is more powerful than the internet. The internet got to big to be used effectively. Use Off Topic as a place to do petty arguments. If the content is good, move it to Serious Discussions.

It is ok to change titles of threads. It is fine to be off topic. But don't be distracting to people who wish to think about things on the GL while living their lives. You don't have to prove yourself-- your post count and your joined date are really quite insignificant if you believe that you are something else.

Courk, for example, is a better person then Courk the human. You probably ignored her posts years ago but have come to respect her.

So extro-- I didn't take the time to read any part of this thread. But I took the time to write a post. Was it-- a little inspiring?

There are many random changes we could do here. Mafia games could be renamed "Social Experiments" I respected you long ago for conducting them. But you never taught me how to run them. The significance of rules is ~very~ important because if you try everything you really won't have appreciate very much at all.

Some of your world views may be outdated. But you watched things like MASH on TV when it first game out. I didn't. I watch downloaded episodes.

I stopped using Facebook because it had advertisements that were circumventing adblockers.

The GL is much more than puzzles. It is about genius and inspiration for future geniuses. Kevin came in a few years ago (five?) and made some big changes. I still like the old forum more. You know, the one like... well I don't know anymore.

If my "big idea" works well, the entire world will be free. Or some other inspirational a fuckwit like me might say :-)

In serious discussions you should talk to one person. Make a dialogue that is as inspiring as Godel Escher and Bach.Your ideas aren't new and they don't have to be. They are your ideas.

And Ideas should be free.

Thank you for your time-- remember how speakers end that way?
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[Gomez]

[MatthewV]

Well, similar. I think my idea is that "ideas can talk". But it really doesn't matter what I think.

Maybe I just read too much Calvin and Hobbes growing up. You can't have too much Calvin and Hobbes because it only lasted 10? years. Bill Watterson saw too many people trying to make money from his idea-- did you know that there was once a contract that could have turned Hobbes into a Hobbes doll? The author refused, rejected the contract, could have stopped writing forever if he had cared about money.
As a result, Calvin and Hobbes is really quite timeless. And then Bill Watterson became secluded because he could not share a different idea to the public. People would have expected too much. Imagine the work he is making now that no one will ever see.

But all Bill Watterson did was create an environment for himself to explore ideas. He used ideas to talk about ideas. It is very inspiring and I want the GL to be a community that inspires the next person. And make awesome puzzles without the worry of judgement. Every form of good genius belongs here. And we have to keep it just inviting enough that a new generation comes and stays. And just hostile enough that we don't change as an idea. Quite simply, the puzzles in VSP are too hard for me because I didn't have the time to grow with them. You know how to solve a cryptic crossword because you started somewhere I didn't.
So I personally stayed because I loved the artwork and feel of the website. It provides a safe haven to grow freely. Someday I will make a pottery website and will hopefully be successful just because of my hard work. Then I will give back to the GL-- if it continues to inspire a new generation of geniuses. Because most of my good ideas come from here.

I would love to see a pool of money that someone like Courk could give to anyone she wished just because she sees someone as being good. If that happens without me, great! No strings attached on the giving. So good people are enabled to do good freely. Money is good, working earn money is evil. Imagine gomez, that suddenly you won the lottery you didn't participate in and didn't know existed.

Calvin once put the price of a hundred gazzilon dollar on the price of his backyard. I used to go off into the wood when I was angry. Or to the ocean. It calmed me into the person I am today. An angry young person who feels he is about to change the world for something good. Interestingly enough, I feel that is what Mormom-ism teaches. But I am not a Mormon. And Mormons as people have all the same issues. But Mormons as ideas are very pure and good.
So if you see MatthewV as a person who does good things and bad things-- that is fine. Just lower the bar once in awhile and accept him as generally good.

Controlling ideas is beautiful. Controlling people is manipulative. A Random Guy was IP banned for a little while because he felt the environment was hostile and wanted to get out. I never wanted to use my admin powers until I saw my idea being ruined. No one should want to leave if they belong here and act like it most of the time.

Time enables us to do good things. Maybe I will start going to A Random Generally Good Thread and start to summarize it with the way I see the viewpoints. So two ideas (mine and what I read) can talk about complex topics like morality. It is work but it is fun because nobody asked me to do it. Unfortunately right now I have other things to do that are more fun.
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[Death Mage]

To expand on my post:

I find the "Serious Discussions" forum a bit redundant. Yea, I get that it's supposed to be different from here, but we already have plenty of discussions here. Or at least did until the forum evolved into "what blanked you today?" threads. Not that the latter is a bad thing, if something doesn't change it will grow stale and die, and the "what blanked you today?" threads have been fairly successful. But it seems the... tone of our old discussions, particular with certain members such as myself, may have been a bit too harsh for MatthewV's view of a digital utopian society.

So, either MatthewV is trying to rekindle the old OT flame - relive the "good ol' days" - which can still be alive and well right here if we had anything left to discuss, or is trying to create a place to weed out posters like myself. Either way, I have no use for such a board.

And where the Hell IS Pablo anyway? Seriously, did I miss it when he said that in moving he was going to give up this place? Or does my memory just suck that bad? What the heck?
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[extropalopakettle]

[MatthewV]

That is funny extro!

And came to tell you that everyday I leave my house door unlocked, the key in the ignition, but try to keep the door locked to the place were I work and think.

How about we start everything in Off Topic and then start moving the good stuff every now and then and make it an active archive?
So that when I start a thread about some insane but beautiful idea that I can feel a sense of accomplishment when someone else moves it along? No one really wants to make something great all alone. But bumping random threads too often is also unhelpful.
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[MatthewV]

And also-- once there was a study about subliminal messages. Around the 1950's I believe. The results were deemed scientific but the people who created them didn't wish to publish.

I realized today if I listen to Bach while thinking it clears my mind in ways I never understood. I want to explore more really excellent music now. I want to read really good books. Not ordinary books --good-- books.

See a thread about what I am reading today is kinda trivial if you care about the content of your post. But threads about really good things are helpful to our community. I want to listen to the music DP likes because he takes nice pictures and seems to like my pottery. ~shrug~
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He tried to understand a phenomenon by describing and depicting it in utmost detail and did not emphasize experiments or theoretical explanation.

[Death Mage]

I'm sorry, but all I'm seeing there is "MY judgment about what constitutes a 'good' thread is better than YOUR judgment about what constitutes a 'good' thread."
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[Thok]

[Jedo the Jedi]

"What are you reading?" is trivial in terms of creating a good post, yes, but I think you are too narrowed in on this idea. I think that thread is excellent for the sharing of information and experiences. Without people posting the books that were formative to them, I might never encounter those same books and therefore be deprived of my own formative experience.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[itisally]

I think I understand where MattV is coming from. I enjoy looking at the “what _____ you today threads” because it lets me get to know the people of GL personally and what matters to them in their daily lives. However, it was the depth of thought that drew me to the GL. Most of the time I feel like a very small fish in a gargantuan sea. (I can’t tell you how excited I was the first time I won a game.) I have come to respect the ideas and though process of the people here. I enjoy a varied debate where I am asked to explain and defend my position. I want both experiences. I think MattV was just looking for a way to know where to go for which experience. GL is a big place and there is room, and a need, for both kinds of interactions.

I like the idea of a conversation, and when conversations get heated in person I am often grateful for the person with the quick witted line to lighten the mood and remind us that we are all friends, or at least a unique community.

In the end each person decides what they want to participate in on the GL. I like mafia, games and discussions but the puzzles are far beyond me. Sentran, my close friend loves the puzzles and mafia but avoids discussions like the plague. I don't think one of us is a better GLer than the other (except I am pretty sure he is smarter than me).
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Death Mage]

Why does nobody know where Pablo is? This is one of the great mysteries of our time!
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[Mackay]

I was thinking about him last week actually, but I don't have an email address for him that isn't linked to a workplace, and IIRC he's retired now?

I'm thrilled that you miss him, DM - he's going to love it when he finds out.

[Chuck]

I thought Serious Discussions was a test to see if anyone would post in the most boring topics of all time.

[extropalopakettle]

[Chaz]

[Undercover Monk]

OMG Chaz is back long time no post man. We miss your crazieness in the mafia forum =(

I appreciate the Labyrinth cause its the one place in internet land where I feel both respected and still can get my beliefs challenged. It keeps my mind working which is important.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[extropalopakettle]

Maybe we should have a "Fight Club" discussion board, we're people can go to beat the crap out of each other, then go back to being civil in the rest of the GL world. We could just call it "ad hominem". There would have to be some rules ...

[MNOWAX]

[itisally*]

[Will]

I know what it is about.

[Hitchhiker]

I thought it was purely hypothetical, until I realized you can only see that forum if you're logged in. I'm unlikely to use it myself but I expect it will be useful for the serious people.

(Sidenote: I'm still baffled by the references to pottery. MatthewV -- do you mean shaping clay on a wheel and firing it in a kiln? Because sometimes I think that's what you mean, and then sometimes it doesn't make sense to me in context, like "reading pottery on my breaks." Just curious.)

[Pablo]

[Pablo]

[Death Mage]

Yea, I knew you'd retired. I just didn't expect you to abandon this place.

Glad to have ya back! I was worried about ya, man. I just KNEW that somewhere out there, you were wrong about something and didn't have anyone around to tell you so.


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[Pablo]

You think you're the only one who tells me?

No one else tells me quite like you do, but they TELL me!

PS They do seem to have stopped telling me how wrong I was to oppose the Iraq war. Hmmmm.
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All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays.

[Jedo the Jedi]

It seems like it was much quieter around here without Pablo...
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.