Cryptic Contest - Results posted

[groza528]

Thanks, got it, now have four votes to recast (including two golds!)

[Suspence]

A pretty shocking winner....results to follow...
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Suspence]

Individual Clue Awards:

ALTERNATE
GOLD - Fashionably late nurse enjoyed every second. - 18 pts - (G) 5 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Suspence
SILVER - A large sea swallow swallowed its replacement.  - 18 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 5 - (B) 2 - novice
BRONZE - At the age of seven, Capone was told to grow older every second. - 7 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - Elethiomel
4th - After a late start, second bird devoured the other. - 6 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Amb
5th - Take turns with backup.  - 5 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - Jack_Ian
6th - Replacement switch -- back and forth  - 3 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 3 - Zag
7th - Switch off with wings on seabird - 1 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - Quailman
7th - Every other neat clue - 1 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - Vagrant
9th - Mad lantern swallowed other choice. - 0 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Thok

BERATED
GOLD - Told a thing or two about what will happen to these clues - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Vagrant
GOLD - Criticized debater! - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Thok
BRONZE - Castigated member at educational department. - 10 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - Elethiomel
4th - Harshly criticized a flustered debater! - 10 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 2 - (B) 3 - Suspence
5th - Judged by Apidae? I heard it was degrading.  - 6 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Zag
6th - Moderated without hesitation. - 5 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - novice
7th - Scold judge in the sack - 4 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - Quailman
8th - Judge, being in a flower garden, is raked over the coals. - 2 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 2 - Amb
9th - Jumped all over bed with speed  - 0 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Jack_Ian

CHUTZPAH
GOLD - Obviously bold chap is confused about Lionel the lawyer - 13 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - Amb
SILVER - Brass hutch? Zap that mess.  - 13 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 1 - (B) 2 - Zag
BRONZE - Vietnamese people express disgust about zealous leader's arrogance. - 10 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 5 - (B) 0 - Suspence
4th - Fiendishly hatch puzzle without lesbian insolence  - 9 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Jack_Ian
5th - Brass quarters (cast in the Czech Republic) used to signal disgust. - 6 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Elethiomel
6th - Zach put hard nuts in mouth - 4 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 4 - Vagrant
7th - Famous thai meditation master overwhelms blithering idiot with unbelievable insolence.  - 2 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 2 - novice
8th - Chaperone shredded corset - 0 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Quailman

DECADENT
GOLD - Depraved years prior to the Greek Scriptures. - 16 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 3 - (B) 1 - Suspence
SILVER - Becoming focused on promotion of self-indulgence! - 10 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - Elethiomel
BRONZE - Audi, oddly indecent!  - 10 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - Jack_Ian
4th - Immoral books from ten years earlier - 8 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 3 - (B) 2 - Vagrant
5th - Indecent; indicative of an era. - 7 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - novice
6th - A long time after the Old Testament came the self-indulgent - 7 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 0 - (B) 4 - Amb
7th - Immoral spot in the 60’s, for example - 1 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - Quailman
8th - Ten serious dings in the finish? It sounds as if decay has set in.  - 0 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Zag

FORK
GOLD - Attack the king and queen at once and split (4)  - 12 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 3 - (B) 0 - Thok
SILVER - The Knight's weapon of choice?  - 11 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - Amb
BRONZE - Tool concealed by a leaf or kilt. - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 1 - (B) 3 - Elethiomel
4th - At this point you need to choose between a German's and a Brit's temperature scale.  - 10 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 2 - (B) 3 - novice
5th - Even if you rake, this tool for spearing olives is required.  - 7 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 2 - Zag
6th - Attack pieces of a branch  - 3 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Jack_Ian
7th - Utensil for Henry VIII or Louis XVI - 2 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - Quailman
8th - Branch provides two candidates for the Head of Billing. - 1 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - Suspence
9th - Where Frank could exchange copyright to make money or handle for trident - 0 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Vagrant

INCANDESCENT
GOLD - Extremely bright man of South American lineage. - 13 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - Amb
SILVER - Shiny tin can loses its lid before fall. - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Suspence
BRONZE - Red-hot South American roots.  - 9 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 2 - (B) 2 - novice
4th - Shining example of Atahuallpa's downfall - 8 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 3 - Vagrant
5th - In lights without light, money glowing. - 7 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - Thok
6th - Red-hot, evil, indecent scan.  - 5 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - Jack_Ian
7th - Brilliant! Passage to the basement in the bathroom.  - 5 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Zag
8th - Glowing heatedly in fire line - 2 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 2 - Quailman
9th - Shining knight trapped in Indian raid. - 0 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Elethiomel

MNEMONIC
GOLD - Monica follows bad men without a thing to remember  - 14 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 1 - (B) 3 - Jack_Ian
SILVER - Immersed in the reverse sequence of Fibonacci, no men master a code to remember. - 12 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 3 - (B) 3 - Elethiomel
BRONZE - Mind needs easily memorized orthographic notions indicates clue!  - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Zag
4th - Initials of memorable neoterism come in handy! - 10 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - Vagrant
5th - Memorize names enlisting mechanism of newly imagined catchphrases! - 6 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Suspence
6th - Ray crossed out acronym: "Mine Collapse. Lest We Forget!" - 3 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Amb
7th - Cappuccino men make extracts to recall and aid in remembering.  - 3 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - novice
8th - Cue my first clown Nick mostly - 0 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Quailman

PHILANDER
GOLD - Flirt with the residents of Buckingham Palace - 15 pts - (G) 4 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Vagrant
SILVER - I'd plan her fooling around!  - 15 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 4 - (B) 1 - Zag
BRONZE - Elicit ultimate pleasure from hard penile workout! - 9 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Elethiomel
4th - Carry-on show's doctor with emergency room.  - 6 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 0 - (B) 3 - Jack_Ian
5th - Flirt with mostly Phil and Erma - 5 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Quailman
6th - Satisfy desire to keep initiating heterosexual illicit liaisons. - 4 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - novice
7th - First Australian yellow jersey holder ditches kid to mess around with lots of women. - 3 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Suspence
8th - Little English Prince and the Queen have an affair - 2 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 2 - Amb

ZOOLOGIST
GOLD - Egg collector follows snoring to elephant keeper - 16 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 3 - (B) 1 - Quailman
SILVER - Eager beaver student spent a month repairing broken gizmo tools.  - 13 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 1 - (B) 2 - novice
BRONZE - Useless tug's oil oozes out in Darwin, for example - 11 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - Vagrant
4th - The noise an anteater makes around melting igloos or Jack Hanna. - 7 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 3 - (B) 1 - Suspence
5th - Glitz, gets oddly odorous and disturbed by searches for new species  - 5 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - Jack_Ian
6th - Animal observer abandoned igloo, intercepting bovine crossing street. - 3 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Elethiomel
7th - Deschanel has lost you. Old wood is taken first to vet? - 3 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 3 - Amb
8th - With unending booze, back list of data, I start, artlessly, to be a student of fauna.  - 2 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 2 - Zag

Country
GOLD - Nation's firm refusal to harbor rebel leader (6) - 16 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 2 - (B) 3 - Vagrant
SILVER - Remaining country (4) - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Quailman
BRONZE - Middle-Eastern nation launches an attack on enemy. (5) - 9 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Suspence
4th - Small country dominated by mountains and sentient rocks after the corruption of Chile. (13) - 9 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 2 - (B) 2 - Elethiomel
5th - South of Libya is notorious for hanging. (4) - 6 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Jack_Ian
6th - An island in the pacific has the vista I want. (6) - 6 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 2 - (B) 2 - Zag
7th - "Oh, to sell part of it back... Since our homeland is surrounded by South Africans!" (7) - 3 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 0 - (B) 0 - Amb
8th - Newly created nation-state escaping succinct attention, typically. (7) - 1 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 0 - (B) 1 - novice
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Suspence]

Best Overall Clue Award:

GOLD - Fashionably late nurse enjoyed every second. - 18 pts - (G) 5 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Suspence
SILVER - A large sea swallow swallowed its replacement. - 18 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 5 - (B) 2 - novice
BRONZE - Egg collector follows snoring to elephant keeper - 16 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 3 - (B) 1 - Quailman
BRONZE - Depraved years prior to the Greek Scriptures. - 16 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 3 - (B) 1 - Suspence
5th - Nation's firm refusal to harbor rebel leader (6) - 16 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 2 - (B) 3 - Vagrant
6th - Flirt with the residents of Buckingham Palace - 15 pts - (G) 4 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Vagrant
7th - I'd plan her fooling around! - 15 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 4 - (B) 1 - Zag
8th - Monica follows bad men without a thing to remember  - 14 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 1 - (B) 3 - Jack_Ian
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Suspence]

Overall Results:

GOLD - Suspence - 91 pts - (G) 15 - (S) 18 - (B) 10
SILVER - Vagrant - 84 pts - (G) 15 - (S) 12 - (B) 15
BRONZE - Elethiomel - 77 pts - (G) 13 - (S) 13 - (B) 12
4th - novice - 72 pts - (G) 9 - (S) 16 - (B) 13
5th - Zag - 68 pts - (G) 9 - (S) 13 - (B) 15
6th - Amb - 63 pts - (G) 13 - (S) 6 - (B) 12
7th - Jack_Ian - 63 pts - (G) 12 - (S) 9 - (B) 9
8th - Quailman - 42 pts - (G) 6 - (S) 8 - (B) 8
9th - Thok - 30 pts - (G) 6 - (S) 5 - (B) 2
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Suspence]

Well played to all and thanks for participating. I'm still quite shocked by the final results.

Personally, my favorite overall clues were Vagrant's clue for NORWAY, and Quailman's clue for ZOOLOGIST (which I was really jealous of because I wanted to use OOLOGIST, but couldn't find an elegant way to do so).

If anyone has any questions on the rankings, please let me know. I can post my results spreadsheet as well if anyone would like to take a look. Some voters did not award 3 medals in each category, thus the overall numbers don't look exactly as you'd expect.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's discussion about the clues...
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[novice]

Congratulations, Suspence!

[novice]

This one is my favourite, btw.

5th - Indecent; indicative of an era. - 7 pts - (G) 1 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - novice

I wonder if people mistook it for a double definition - it's actually an & lit.

[Elethiomel]

I got it, and liked it. I also liked your &lit. for PHILANDER. But I think they should have exclamation marks. Also, I guess "indecent" is a bit unconventional.

The best clue award was very well deserved indeed.

When's he next round?

[3iff]

Good game Suspence...and only a tad suspicious that you won...

My favourite clue was:
SILVER - The Knight's weapon of choice? - 11 pts - (G) 3 - (S) 1 - (B) 0 - Amb

My scoring (my top clue for each word) netted me 4 Gold, 2 Silver, 1 Bronze, 2 * 4th and a 5th. (That is, 4 of my top selections got Gold...etc)

Amb got 3 top votes from me, 2 for Zag and Vagrant and 1 each for Suspence, Elethiomel and Jack_Ian.

Lots of clues I didn't get...so it would be helpful to me to see explanations for the clues. If there's another game I'd like to have a go with the intention of avoiding last place...

[Elethiomel]

6th - Animal observer abandoned igloo, intercepting bovine crossing street. - 3 pts - (G) 0 - (S) 1 - (B) 1 - Elethiomel

I'll explain this one, since it seems so under-appreciated.

Animal observer = ZOOLOGIST
abandoned = anagram indicator (as in "freed from constraint")
igloo = to be anagrammed into OLOGI
intercepting = indicator that the igloo anagram should be in the middle of what follows
bovine crossing = ZO (crossing between a yak and a cow)
street = ST

Random nitpick: Is "obviously bold" a good definition for "chutzpah"? (As in, why not "obvious boldness"?)

[Vagrant]

There are some results that surprise me - mostly mine. The ones I really like scored badly and the ones I thought were ordinary did well. Maybe it’s a pond thing.

There are three &lits that I was surprised to see do so well …

BERATED - GOLD - Criticized debater! - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Thok

DECADENT - BRONZE - Audi, oddly indecent! - 10 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 0 - Jack_Ian

Both of these contain a definition of the answer but aren’t a definition of the answer. I think they’d both be BERATED in the Cryptic Crossword thread and I was kinda expecting the voting here to be at least as harsh as the comments over there.

MNEMONIC - BRONZE - Mind needs easily memorized orthographic notions indicates clue! - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Zag

I also toyed with the idea of making a mnemonic for mnemonic but didn’t because I decided I was never going to make one as good as what I could find on Google - memorization's not easy - memory often needs initial cues. Whilst this clue is a perfectly good mnemonic for mnemonic I can’t see why it’s a good cryptic clue because there is no indication to use the initial letters unless you already know the answer.

The other result that surprised was for FORK.

From comments in the CC thread it would seem that clueing two meaning of the answer that both derive from the same source is a big no-no. However, here all three placegetters do exactly that.

[Elethiomel]

I agree with all of that critique from Vagrant, although I must point out that the bronze medal for FORK was in fact a cleverly hidden word.

When it comes to judging clues, I personally think that surface reading is king. I will also award extra points for "fancy" clues, but not if I feel it compromises validity. It's easy to "overstretch" when trying to construct &lit.'s in particular (I know all about that).

[Vagrant]

[novice]

Agreed that surface reading is king.

Since I'm actually a misunderstood genius , here are the explanations to my clues:

1) ALTERNATE
A large sea swallow swallowed its replacement.
A+L+TERN+ATE

2) BERATED
Moderated without hesitation.
B(ER)ATED (et lit.)

3) CHUTZPAH
Famous thai meditation master overwhelms blithering idiot with unbelievable insolence.
CH(UTZP)AH (Chah is a famous thai meditation master)

4) DECADENT
Indecent; indicative of an era.
DEC(AD)ENT (et lit.)

5) FORK
At this point you need to choose between a German's and a Brit's temperature scale.
Fahrenheit OR Kelvin

6) INCANDESCENT
Red-hot South American roots.
INCAN+DESCENT

7) MNEMONIC
Cappuccino men make extracts to recall and aid in remembering.
MNEMONIC is hidden backwards in "Cappucino men make", "extracts to recall" indicates this, "aid in remembering" is the straight definition.

8) PHILANDER
Satisfy desire to keep initiating heterosexual illicit liaisons.
P(H.I.L)ANDER (et lit.)

9) ZOOLOGIST
Eager beaver student spent a month repairing broken gizmo tools.
GIZMO TOOLS - M(onth) anag.

10) Country.
Newly created nation-state escaping succinct attention, typically. (7)
Answer: ESTONIA (nation-state anagram minus attn) (et lit.)

[Amb]

"BERATED - GOLD - Criticized debater! - 11 pts - (G) 2 - (S) 2 - (B) 1 - Thok "

Shouldn't have ANY awards! It failed to provide an anagram indicator at all.

[Amb]

If anyone wants me to run a round 2, I'd like to volunteer. But Suspence gets first call on that.

[Amb]

[Elethiomel]

I think criticized is borderline acceptable as an anagram indicator, but "Criticized debater" is a weak definition. Novice's clue is much better. This is how I rated that clue:

GOLD - Moderated without hesitation.
SILVER - Told a thing or two about what will happen to these clues
BRONZE - Judge, being in a flower garden, is raked over the coals.

The surface reading is a bit stilted for the bronze medal, but I like the semantic connection between "flower garden" and "raked over the coals".

[Amb]

Actually, you're the second to make the same comment to me about my clue. (Judge, Flower Garden). So it apparently reads 'stilted'. BUt I don't see why? What is it about it that clashes?

[Elethiomel]

"Judge, being in the..." sounds stilted to me. It sounds like "A judge in the..." is what you're really trying to say. Though actually, I think the main problem is that the clue has to say just "Judge" instead of "A judge", which would of course break the clue.

How about:

Charge into the flower garden, to be raked over the coals. (7)

[3iff]

Novice,

I liked your FORK clue (bronze from me) and how did I miss the backwards word in MNEMONIC? I saw the backword in the Fibonacci clue but somehow missed yours...it was just too well hidden. Probably deserved a bronze at least.

[Suspence]

I'm happy to sit out the next round and just run the contest, if you'd all like to do this again.

Please provide any feedback on the game - format, word selection, number of clues in a round, clues posted with/without explanations, voting method, scoring method, timelines for clue and vote submissions. I'll incorporate your feedback into the next round.

Another statistic that deserves recognition - novice's clue for ALTERNATE is the only clue that got a medal from every single voter.

I'd like feedback on my clue for FORK, so I know where I went wrong...
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Suspence]

[Vagrant]

In the next round I'd like to see included in the submissions a clue taken from an actual published cryptic crossword. Only the moderator would know which clue was the published one. As a side competition voters could try and pick which clue was the published clue.

[novice]

[Vagrant]

[Jack_Ian]

I agree with the criticism re my &lit. Audi is only borderline decadent, even in these straitened times.
For me, there's always a trade-off when forming a clue.
The aim for me is to make it clever, pithy and accurate.
If a clue gets too long then the surface reading has to be impeccable.
I'm happy enough with my votes. Some of the clues really needed a little more time to apply some much needed polish, but unfortunately time-constraints would not allow.

For the record, here were my clues:

1) ALTERNATE
Take turns with backup. [Double-Definition: Take turns, backup]

2) BERATED
Jumped all over bed with speed [Definition: Jumped all over, Wordplay: BE(rate)D]

3) CHUTZPAH
Fiendishly hatch puzzle without lesbian insolence [Definition: Insolence, Wordplay: Anagram of "hatch puzzle" - LEZ]

4) DECADENT
Audi, oddly indecent! [&lit: DEC(AD)ENT, Audi as example of decadent car]

5) FORK
Attack pieces of a branch [Double-Definition: Attack pieces (as in chess) & a branch]

6) INCANDESCENT
Red-hot, evil, indecent scan. [Definition: Red-hot, Wordplay: anagram of "indecent scan"]

7) MNEMONIC
Monica follows bad men without a thing to remember [Definition: thing to remember, Wordplay: MNE + MONICA - A]

8) PHILANDER
Carry-on show's doctor with emergency room. [Definition: Carry-on, Wordplay: Show's doctor (PHIL) + AND + E.R.]

9) ZOOLOGIST
Glitz, gets oddly odorous and disturbed by searches for new species [Definition: searches for new species, Wordplay: anagram of GLIZT & OdOrOuS]

10) CHAD
South of Libya is notorious for hanging. [Double-definition: South of Libya, see "hanging chad" for notoriety]

[3iff]

FORK clue

I understood everything until "Head of BIlling" which made no sense to me at all...(could be me, though). Vagrant's clue made even less sense...

[Elethiomel]

[Thok]

I'm not really going to worry that much about criticisms of clues where I submitted stuff at the last minute (and submitted a clue for ALTERNATE that flat out doesn't work, which I apologize for; I included an extra N in my wordplay that I should have caught and completely rewritten the clue when I found.)

For what it's worth, I think I would have made the clue "Debater, criticized!" if I had a little more time, which works better as a definition (berated is treated as a gerund rather than the past tense of a verb in either case, but that phrasing makes the whole gerund thing more obvious.)

I do feel bad for Suspence submitting the same idea for the clue for BERATED. Or I would, if he didn't win the contest

[Suspence]

Two candidates for the head of Billing would be "F or K", as in Filling or Killing.

I agree that finding a word that only could start with F or K would have been better. I doubt such a word exists...
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[novice]

[Suspence]

Chaperone shredded corset = ESCORT
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Suspence]

I'm working on a word list for a Cryptic Contest II right now.

I'll try to incorporate the "published clue" idea. Is there a specific source for respected puzzles I should use?

Again, any other feedback before I start the next one is appreciated.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Vagrant]

[Suspence]

How did everyone feel about the "category" clue (countries), rather than a specific assigned solution? More of that? Skip it next time?
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[3iff]

As for format, the first game was fine...10 words isn't too many and, yes, have a word we choose ourselves from a specifed category. It does give an extra bit of freedom and allows creativity.

[Elethiomel]

[Suspence]

As a middle ground then, I'll give a clue with fewer options.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.