Tree issue with a neighbor

[Suspence]

I was looking to get your opinions on an issue that recently arose with a neighbor. I'm interested in both the legal ramifications and the "right thing to do".

I have a rather large oak tree in my yard. Several large branches hang over my neighbors yard, mostly above his detached garage and his driveway. (I don't believe the tree is dead or dying, it certainly doesn't appear to be from the naked eye. I have a tree guy coming out for a quote for limb removal, I'll also get his opinion on the health of the tree soon.)

During a recent storm, a branch from the tree fell into my neighbor's yard and damaged his car, to the tune of $1,200. He left a note in our mailbox with a repair quote, asking us to write him a check for the damage.

Based on what I have read, it seems I'm neither liable for the cost of the damage to the vehicle, nor for the cost of trimming back branches that are not dead/dying on his side of the property line.

I've also read that if he has comprehensive car insurance, the damage would be covered as an "act of nature" with no increase to his premiums. Only the deductible would need to be paid. I don't know if he has comprehensive coverage at this point.

If I understand the law correctly (which I may not, and if not, I'd like to be corrected), I could essentially tell him to take a hike. To be honest though, the law seems counter-intuitive, and telling him to take a hike would make me feel like not-so-great a person.

Should I tell him to contact his auto insurance? Should I offer to split OR pay in full the car insurance deductible? Offer to split OR pay in full the entire cost if there is no insurance?

Should I offer to split OR pay in full the cost of limb removal from his side of the property line?

Should I contact my homeowner's insurance and see if they cover anything in this situation?

Should I tell him to take a hike and feel like a terrible person every time I see him?

Two other factors, if they matter: 1) We're cordial neighbors, but not "friends". We've never said more than a casual "Hello" and "Nice weather today" type of stuff to one another. 2) Our house is currently on the market. If we sell, we're moving out of state.

So, all that said, I'd love the thoughts of the GL on this matter.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Zag]

I think it's reasonable for you to pay half the cost of his deductible -- even all of it, if you were to feel that you really should have trimmed the tree sooner. If there's nothing unhealthy about the tree, however, half seems quite generous. If he doesn't have comprehensive insurance, then it's hard to believe that he has a car worth enough that a tree limb could really cause that much damage.

I would discourage you to go to your own homeowner's insurance for this. Even if they agree that you're on the hook for the whole $1200, you will still pay your deductible, first, which should be $1000 if you have the right insurance. (That's based on my belief that you should carry a very high deductible on home insurance, to keep it as cheap as possible. It is only for disasters, not for stuff you can afford.) Note that your home insurance, even the one you get on your next home, is likely to go up if you make a claim against your insurance. (And never, ever, make a claim for water damage. You'll simply be denied insurance on that house if you do.) However, you might call your broker, especially if you have an independent agent, just to ask what your liability is without making an actual claim.

Your other point, that you are moving away soon, does keep me from giving the advice that maybe you should just pay in order to keep the peace. That would depend on how much of a burden $1200 is to you, and how much you care about peace, and how nutty you think the neighbor is. But you're moving away, so screw that.

[MNOWAX]

The short answer is as long as the tree was in need of trimming (due to dead branches etc) you are not Liable ( this is in the State of NY, other states may be different) for any Acts of Nature that happen. Reasonable precautions must be taken, but after that, its TFB moment (Too Fucking Bad).

If you want to keep the peace, I'd work with him, but it is kind of presumptuous that he just sends you a bill. If you don't give a damn and are certain you are moving, tell him to pound sand.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Suspence]

[itisally]

In the intrest of rightness, you may offer to cover half of the car is he will cover a portion of the trimming.

I know that where I am I have the right to trim any part of my neighbors tree that hangs over my yard. I am not sure how that would interact with liability, but I would assume that if he was supposed to trim it and he didn't any damage caused would be his responsibility.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Suspence]

[Suspence]

Crux of the letter:

Two weeks ago during a heavy rain storm, a larger branch fell on my vehicle, causing significant damage. Please see attached photo.

I've had the tree quoted to be taken down for $3600 (see attached estimate). Ideally, I'd like for you to have the tree removed. However, I understand it would be a large amount of money. I've had my vehicle quoted to be repaired for $1200 (see attached estimate). Would you be willing to cover the cost of this repair? I feel as thought it would be a fair compromise.

I am willing to discuss further if you would like. My contact information is below. Or if you feel this is a fair agreement, feel free to drop a check in my mailbox at your earliest convenience.

The price to take the tree down is irrelevant, since I don't see why I'd remove the tree rather than removing the branches above his property. It also appears that I'm not liable to cover that costs if the tree is in good health; the responsibility to pay for the removal of those branches would be his.

If I did decided to put any money into this situation out of neighborliness, it seems the cost of removing those branches will likely be similar to the cost of repairing the vehicle, but at least removing the branches is somewhat beneficial to me (eliminating potential liability for any future tree issues with this neighbor), whereas writing a check for his car really doesn't do anything for me and leaves me at risk for the next time.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Nsof]

1) Take photos as well. work on your photoshop skills.
2) Does he know what the law states? more specifically, could he be thinking that it is obvious you should pay.
3) If insurance is to be involved, it should be his. i.e. since he has to pay and you are being nice, you can offer to pay the deductible for his insurance. If that mean any lasting higher prime for the insurance then its on him.

The law does seem counter intuitive to me as well. Why should person A be forced to pay for trimming branches from a tree that Person B owns?
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Will sell this place for beer

[Quailman]

In my area I think you'd have to be notified by registered letter that a tree posed a risk due to drought or insects causing poor health. If the neighbor can't prove that you were aware, it's not your problem.

I trim branches from neighbors' trees on a regular basis. They hang over my yard and either shade one corner preventing grass from growng or present a risk to the cable TV cable.

[Neo]

Why didn't he just talk to you in person? He had the time to get the estimate on his car, get the tree estimate, put together the letter (with photo!), but he just drops it off in your box instead of stopping by in person?

Why was the vehicle left under a tree during a heavy storm if there's a garage right there? I'm kind of curious to see the picture of the damage.

Honestly, if it were me and the tree is relatively healthy, I'd tell him no. Here's why:

1) He came at me with a note instead of being a grownup and talking to me personally. Maybe you guys are on polar opposite schedules, but I work nights and weekends and can still touch base with people that have normal hours.

2) His idea of a compromise: you probably don't want to spend $TEXAS doing this completely unreasonable thing where I gain everything and you gain nothing, so instead I'll "let" you spend 1/3*$TEXAS doing this less unreasonable thing where I still get what I actually want and disregard your thoughts.

I'd talk to him in person and let him know that he should take it to his insurance. That's what it's for. If he doesn't have comprehensive coverage, then that's a choice he made and he should live with the consequences. If he has a super high deductible, I'd be open to negotiating kicking in up to a couple hundred bucks.

I'm all about being neighborly. I think he's being unreasonable.
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_{Ad Astra}

[The Great Crep'er]

Neo spoke for the opposing payment side pretty clearly. I'll leave this here for what it's worth.

[The Great Crep'er]

My previous post is of course an idealistic stance and is not incorporated with any snag in some sort of housing rule or law that may come along your way. It may be worth it to research the matter lightly so you don't get caught with your pants down.

It'd really suck if that were the case. All in all, the way you write up the guy just makes me really dislike his attitude to the situation. With that in mind, I'm starting to think you know what you want to do, deep down inside.

Yep, just another case of suburban panhandling. I see plenty of unfortunate souls on the subway on my commute, but if I donate to them it's out of my own discretion and not motivated by some sort of guilt for living in better circumstances. I think that would be helpful for the neighbor to keep in mind as he goes through this...after all, things could be a lot worse.

On a general rant here: No one man should be held responsible for the unfortunate, it is through all our collective failings that we live through and learn from.
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[Duke Gnome]

I don't know the law, but ethically I think you're responsible. I think the neighbour's letter was very reasonable. If $1200 needs to be paid to fix the car I think it ought to come from you and not the, (imo blameless), neighbour. However, the law is the law and I would not blame you for sticking to the very letter of the law and not one cent more.

[Neo]

[The Ragin' South Asian]

[Suspence]

Here's what I've found from forums discussing the laws in my state:

My neighbor's tree has huge branches hanging over the property line and above the area where I park my car. I have asked him to remove the branches because I fear damage to my car from sap and falling branches, but he will not. an he be held liable for any damage his tree causes? Anonymous.

Probably not. State courts have held that a landowner's failure to prevent the falling of branches or sap from a healthy tree onto a neighbor's property cannot be the basis of a finding of negligence or private nuisance. The answer may be different if your neighbor has a dead or dying tree that he knows may pose a risk to you or your property. You are not helpless, however, in your efforts to protect your car. State law recognizes a right of self-help with respect to roots and branches that intrude into or above your property. As long as you do your cutting at the property line and take care not to destroy the tree in question, you can prune any branches that overhang your property.

And also:

My neighbor has an enormous maple which is more then 4 stories high and whose canopy spans over several backyards. A large limb from this overgrown tree fell on my yard causing property damage. I sent the neighbor an official letter (notarized & certified) that this tree needs to be trimmed or removed as it has caused damage. 6 mos. later, the neighbor trimmed the tree on his side of the property line only, and only as high as his ladder would reach. Another branch will fall on my property; it's just a matter of time. Given that I have notified the neighbor of the hazards of this unkempt tree (he's never paid to have it maintained - I have paid to have my side trimmed) next time a large branch falls and causes damage can I 1) go after his insurance as he is negligent for not having maintained the tree or 2) take him to court and sue for damages?

As discussed in this post regarding neighbors and trees, Massachusetts law does not make the owners of trees liable for damage caused by those trees unless the owner has some reason to know that the tree causes an unusual risk, such as a diseased tree. However, as also discussed in several posts on this forum, MA law gives you the right to prune back branches that overhang your property, as long as you do it in a way that does not harm the tree.

Thank you for your response. As for the neighbor's tree "causing an unusual risk", I have had damage done by a large falling branch from this tree and subsequently gave the neighbor written notice (notarized, certified) that falling branches from this tree present a danger to both property and person.

Does my written notice to this neighbor give the neighbor "some reason to know" of the dangers of this tree?

I can't say for sure how a judge would rule, but I think what you have done is given your neighbor notice of the obvious: Sometimes, branches fall from trees and cause damage. Again, I think the issue is whether the neighbor had notice of an unusual situation, such as disease, that makes the tree more dangerous than any other tree.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Suspence]

It's probably also worth mentioning (if for no other reason than to prove I'm a decent guy ) that I had a similar situation with the neighbor on the other side of my property when we moved into our home 5 years ago. His tree was hanging over my house, dropping branches on my roof and black berries on my car and driveway.

We told him about it, and asked if he wouldn't mind if we had the tree removed at our expense. He said he wouldn't mind, so we paid to have it removed. It seems to follow that the neighbor on our side could have done the same thing if he felt the normal debris from a tree was a hazard/nuisance to his property.

After reading up on this, I'm leaning more toward letting the neighbor know that I'm not liable for the damage. I'll suggest he contact his auto insurance for the car damage, and let him know that it is his right to have the tree pared back to the property line if he fears further damage (just as I did with my other neighbor). I'll probably feel like a jerk and never be able to look at him again, but I'm not in a position to donate $1200 to my neighbor out of the goodness of my heart.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Quailman]

That is in line with my area (Texas). We have a lot of nitofications going on since the drought of 2011. My neighbor had a largein tree break at ground level and crush the fence between his house and the one behind. I don't know how they worked out the repair, but the next month our homeowners newsletter published an article about notifying neighbors of dead trees. As for healthy limbs & roots, they're up to you to trim on your own prpoerty.

[The Great Crep'er]

[The Ragin' South Asian]

[Courk]

Since we're talking about trees and neighbors:

Across the street is a very large oak tree that I'm pretty sure would hit my house if it fell. I don't know a whole lot about trees; I don't think it's diseased, but don't know how you can actually tell. Are there tests or something? When I have my trees trimmed in the spring, can I have my tree guy look at the neighbor's tree, or is that too intrusive or something?

[Undercover Monk]

It sounds to me that the guy may not have comp insurance. You are not responsible for a tree. If a tree fell on your call on a state highway the government wouldnt pay and neither should you. If you are feeling very generous offer to pay a portion of the deductable but I wouldn't go farthher than that. If he doesnt have comp well (as others have said) that was his choice. If he just doesnt want to submit a claim then he is just trying to pass the buck to avoid a claim (which is crazy cause at least with the company I work for) Comp claims are not rated and do not increase premiums. But that could be different for other companies
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2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning

[Jack_Ian]

The neighbour is not blameless.

1) He sees overhanging branches. Has the right to remove them and give you the bits he chops off, but does nothing.
2) He parked his car under overhanging branches, knowing there was a risk.
3) He did so while expecting a storm.
4) He never brought the situation to your attention.

The way I see it, you are not legally responsible for any of it (unless the tree was dangerous and you reasonably should have known it).
I would contact my insurance to get their opinion and then confront the neighbour with this official opinion (which I presume will tell the neighbour to get lost) but state that in the interest of good neighbourliness, you'd consider paying half of the excess.

A comparable scenario would be a loose slate on your roof sliding off and killing somebody. Are you liable for murder? Of course not. However, if you were warned that you had a loose slate and refused to repair it in a reasonable time-frame then you could be in serious trouble.

[Jack_Ian]

[Suspence]

What I'm thinking of writing:

During our research into this situation, we found that state laws make property owners liable for tree limbs extending over their property, even if the tree originates in a neighbor’s yard.

Essentially, what we were told is that branches hanging into our yard from a neighbor’s tree are our responsibility, as is any damage that results from normal tree debris (sap, berries, branches knocked off during storms, etc). We actually faced this situation with our neighbor on the other side of our property. A tree on his property was dropping branches and black berries on our roof, car and driveway. After getting his permission, we had his tree removed at our expense to avoid any real damage.

The same holds true for the branches of our tree extending into your yard. It appears we are not responsible for covering the costs of that damage. In this case, we don’t want the tree to be removed, due to the damage that work would have on our yard. But it’s your legal right to have any or all branches on your side of the property line removed, to eliminate any risk of future damage to your property.

One other note - Since the tree branch fell on a vehicle, we were told this is typically covered under comprehensive auto insurance, without an increase in insurance premiums. So it appears you could report the damage to your auto insurer and have the damage covered by them, less any deductible, without any other ramifications. This should significantly lessen the expense of the damage.

Please let us know if you’d like to discuss the matter further.

Thoughts?
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Zag]

You might start with something like, "We are sorry to hear about your bad luck with the tree limb hitting your car, but we do not accept any of the responsibility."

Also, in this sentence you are shifting pronouns in a way that might confuse him: "Essentially, what we were told is that branches hanging into our yard from a neighbor’s tree are our responsibility, as is any damage that results from normal tree debris (sap, berries, branches knocked off during storms, etc). " I suggest: We have learned that branches hanging into your yard from a neighbor’s tree are your responsibility, as is any damage that results from normal tree debris (sap, berries, branches knocked off during storms, etc).

You also might add: If you would like to discuss removing the tree altogether, then we would be glad to talk about a fair division of the costs, such that you would be paying only your fair portion of the removal. Or, you have the option of just removing the limbs that are on your property, at, of course, your expense.

[Suspence]

I shifted pronouns intentionally. I was hoping to minimize how domineering the letter sounded by first describing how the situation would be handled if we were the ones dealing with a neighbor's tree falling on our property, and then relating how it actually was handled when we were in that exact scenario. I then transitioned to how those same principles now apply to my tree falling onto his property.

I can see how this would be confusing, however, so I'll give it some thought.

In the meantime, we wrote to a lawyer provided on our state's website. His response was very cut-and-dried:

You are not responsible for any of those expenses. Overhanging branches (and also encroaching roots) belong to your neighbor. He could have trimmed them (or cut them) at any time without your consent since they belong to him. By trimming them, he could have avoided any threat to his motor vehicle. The tree limbs overhanging his property are his property. His failure to trim them to safeguard his car is not your problem. He is liable for those costs.

Seems gruff, and he didn't even mention that it would be a different story if the tree were sick/dead/dying as I've read in other sources. I guess you get what you pay for with free legal advice.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Chuck]

If I plant a small tree near the edge of my yard and a few years later its roots damage my neighbor's water pipe, is it his fault because they're his roots and he should have dug them up earlier at his expense?

[Suspence]

Apparently the answer is yes (at least in my state). He'd also be responsible for cutting the roots without killing the tree, or he'd be liable for that damage.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Quailman]

Call your own insurance agent and ask him what if the situation was reversed?

[Suspence]

I was actually thinking of trying that. I'm getting a lot of information corroborating my viewpoint, but it could be the confirmation bias at work, or it could be a lawyer telling me what I want to hear.

I'm wondering if the prudent thing to do would be to ask someone the question with our positions reversed and see what kind of feedback I get.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Death Mage]

Oh, if the situation were reversed it's simple:

First, call your insurance company, find out if you're covered, what you'd have to pay, and if it would effect your premiums.
Get an estimate for the damage, and for the tree removal, just in case.
And then write a note and put it on your neighbor's door, with the prices, in a way that tries to convince him to pay for the damages, and hope that he doesn't realize that he's not liable and thus doesn't have to pay you.
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[Suspence]

Now that was funny
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[Nsof]

Why not do this face to face?
Give the letter if you feel you have to but only after you talk to him
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Will sell this place for beer

[Death Mage]

All joking aside, your neighbor really did do everything that was in his best interest. He is going to try to find a way that gets him off the hook. He got estimates, including - as you correctly gathered - the more expensive one to try to force your hand at the cheaper option. He wrote it down and delivered it that way for two reasons. First, it's a paper trail, it's evidence that he DID contact you. Second, it avoids a potential conflict if you'd react badly do it (yelling or threatening him).

You, on the other hand, also did the right thing in looking for help and advice. And if you check the local ordinances, and find that you really aren't at fault, you are well within your rights to tell him so. In as politely worded a letter as possible. Don't let him try to force you, don't let him try to threaten you. He played his gambit, you call his bluff, and hopefully both of you can move on.
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[itisally]

I hate to assume the worst of people. It really could be ignorance and the simplest explination to the neighbor was that Sespence's tree and everything it did would be Sespence's responsibility. He may have even thought he wasn't allowed to trim the tree because it wasn't his, or more likely he didn't think it would be a problem until it was.

This is where I can see educating him by letting him know that Sespence would not be liable. If he thought he didn't have the right to trim those branches you would want to let him know that and then in the intrest of being neighborly a small abount to help if you can, if not the name of a good tree trimmer and Auto Body shop. Either way, seek first to inform.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Suspence]

I sent the letter today, similar to what I wrote above with some empathy added, and mixed pronouns removed.I sent that about 12 hours ago now...no response yet.

Where would you put your money if you had to bet on what will happen next? No response? An angry response? A knock on the door? My dog mysteriously disappears?
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.

[TGC*]

I just hope it doesn't end up in a lawsuit for you, but barring that or the fact that he could be a psychopathic serial killer on the side, I think you'll be just fine.

[Pablo]

I would suggest you avoid all talk and as much thought as possible that involves such things as right, wrong, good, bad, fair, unfair, etc. Rely on the law. If it's clear, which it seems to be, confidently let that be your solution. Keep it simple and business-like. Of course, courtesy and sincere caring are important too, but the law is there for a reason. If you learn that his insurance covers all but the deductible, you may want to consider a goodwill gesture.....buy them a dinner at their favorite restaurant, or give them $100 or something.....but NOT as an admission of responsibility, just as a gesture of caring.
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All religions are the same - Guilt....just with different holidays.

[The Potter]

Buy them a bonsai tree.