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Bernanke and QE3

 
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training



PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: 1 Reply with quote

What exactly does this do? I'm not an economist, so I don't quite understand why spending $40 billion a month stimulates the economy.
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot



PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: 2 Reply with quote

What the Fed used to do is say that they were dropping the prime interest rate. I think that it is pretty clear why that helps the economy: it encourages people to buy houses, which stimulates construction; also it encourages companies who were considering borrowing money for expansion to go ahead and do so, etc.

So that's what they used to say, but the way that they actually accomplished it was to buy up the high-risk mortgage-backed securities, freeing up the lenders to be able to lend. Supply and demand of money to lend will cause the lenders to lower their interest rates. The problem with saying that you're lowering interest rates to a certain number is that you don't actually know how much of these high-risk mortgage-backed securities you'll have to buy up to cause the effect you want.

Then, of course, the lenders, being selfish pigs, would play games with the system, holding on to their cash while the Fed was in this buy-up mode, so they could unload more of their dead weight. It meant that the Fed was spending more on these dog securities than they should have, and buying more than they needed to. Ben B. changed the policy to just a declaration of how much they were going to buy up rather than the target interest rate. In reality, he knows pretty closely the correlation, if the lenders aren't trying to game the system. This approach means that the lenders now have an incentive to reduce the price they are asking for these securities, because they want to unload them and use the cash to make better investments. If they ask too much, their competitors will undercut them and they won't get to make a deal at all.
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Lepton*
Guest



PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: 3 Reply with quote

Like.
Felicitous
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Thok
Oh, foe, the cursed teeth!



PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: 4 Reply with quote

Zag wrote:
The problem with saying that you're lowering interest rates to a certain number is that you don't actually know how much of these high-risk mortgage-backed securities you'll have to buy up to cause the effect you want.


The real problem with lowering the interest rate right now is that it's not possible to do it directly. The current interest rate is essentially 0 on long term investments, and a negative interest rate isn't possible. Mortgage rates reflect that by being at their lowest rate ever.
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The Potter
Feat of Clay



PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:04 am    Post subject: 5 Reply with quote

I still feel it means one thing: buy gold and silver. Think about this: 1 oz of gold will always be valuable. It isn't an investment, it is the safe feeling of holding something valuable that makes you forever rich.

Maybe it is Alaska being shielded by isolation but I haven't seen a significant change in anything in the last 4 years. Our housing market moved down a little, food got a little more expensive and gasoline is still entirely too cheap ($3.90?/gallon). All in all, not much appears different.

I also have little faith left in our fiat currency. Just over 40 years off the gold standard was a good run. I hope people enjoyed it.
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Fried Egg
Breakfast Cannibal



PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:32 pm    Post subject: 6 Reply with quote

I'm not going to comment on the specific question of whether more qualitative easing is a good idea or not however...
Zag wrote:
What the Fed used to do is say that they were dropping the prime interest rate. I think that it is pretty clear why that helps the economy: it encourages people to buy houses, which stimulates construction; also it encourages companies who were considering borrowing money for expansion to go ahead and do so, etc.

If this were really the case, it would be in the economy's interest to constantly try and drive down interest rates. The lower the better, right?

But in fact that is not the case. If you think of interest rates are the price of credit, then what actually helps the economy is that the price of credit should should be as close as possible to the equilibrating level that balances supply and demand. As with any other kind of price, institutional interference in market prices tends to move prices further away from this equilibrating level.

Driving down interest rates may seem a good idea from particular points of view, but holistically, and in the long run it does not matter whether interest rates are "high" or "low" as long as the markets are functioning effectively.

Some might say that the credit markets are not functioning effectively right now but is that really the case? The credit markets are going through a long drawn out corrective phase in response to the last boom/bust cycle, a phase that is being drawn out due to the policies of quantitative easing and such like.
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot



PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: 7 Reply with quote

Fried Egg wrote:
I'm not going to comment on the specific question of whether more qualitative easing is a good idea or not however...
Zag wrote:
What the Fed used to do is say that they were dropping the prime interest rate. I think that it is pretty clear why that helps the economy: it encourages people to buy houses, which stimulates construction; also it encourages companies who were considering borrowing money for expansion to go ahead and do so, etc.

If this were really the case, it would be in the economy's interest to constantly try and drive down interest rates. The lower the better, right?

No, for two reasons. First, it isn't free for the Fed to do that. They are buying up these securities for probably a bit more than they are worth. (This isn't actually the financial disaster it sounds like, because those securities don't exist in a vacuum. In fact, if the action works and the economy improves, the value of those securities is likely to go up significantly, and it will turn out to have been a reasonable investment all along.)

Second, increasing the available money can cause inflation. The Fed currently has a target for inflation of 2%. It turns out that zero inflation is as bad for the economy as too much inflation. In fact, I think that they should target slightly higher, like 3 - 3.5%, but that's just a quibble. The problem is that low unemployment causes companies to have to pay more, which makes them have to charge more. This causes a little inflation, and adds pressure on the workers to demand even more pay, etc. It can quickly spiral to runaway inflation.

The Republicans claim that they don't want the Fed to take action (now) because of inflation, but what they really don't want is a sudden improvement in the economy just before the election. We really are no where near the an inflation feedback loop; we have to be under 5% unemployment before we need to worry about it.

(To be fair, there are also some Republicans who don't want us messing with the economy just because they don't feel the government should be doing that. While I sympathize with their opinion, they then shouldn't align themselves with people who are busily criticizing Obama for not having fixed the economy, yet. If it isn't government's job to fix it, stop demanding it.)

And in any case, the economy is definitely on the road to recovery, whether you give Obama's policies credit for that or not. The house was on fire when he took office. Now the fire is out and we're starting to rebuild the walls. It still isn't a luxurious home, yet, but at least it's not on fire.
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Fried Egg
Breakfast Cannibal



PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: 8 Reply with quote

I'm not qualified to speak about the specifics of the American situation so I am talking in generalities here.

Central governments can and do pursue a policy of continuous debasement of the currency, trying to hold the interest rates generally lower than they should be, in the misguided belief that this is always good for the economy. Since they print new money, they can do this without worrying about getting a return for their "investment" (as long as it doesn't lead to run-away inflation).

Indeed, if they couldn't do this, the policy of "inflation targeting" would be impossible because it essentially relies on the money supply growing at a rate over and above the GDP growth rate.

Also, it is not the case that zero price inflation is bad for the economy. This is exactly what the long term inflation rate (in both the UK and US) used to hover around during the period of the classic gold standard when the central banks were not free to inflate the money supply. The economy grew well enough back then.
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