What made you middle-of-the-road today?

[Jedo the Jedi]

First of all, Mackay, I know these things get your ire up. You might try approaching the situation more calmly before going at it.

So, "those things" in the context is obviously "discriminatory acts" whether they be related to race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Now, I took a defensive driving class at the behest of my parents, and I took to heart the suggestions of how to respond when pulled over so as to put the cop at ease. These involved rolling down the window, turning off the car, putting the keys on the dash out of reach, and putting my hands on the wheel. (Also, turning on an interior light if it's night time.) So, I do all of these things whenever I am pulled over because I want the cop to be calm.

Once, I was pulled over for failing to stop at a stop sign. I stopped long enough only to look left because I was making a right-hand turn and didn't need to see if cars were coming the other way. Immediately upon making the turn, lights went on behind me. It was New Year's Eve, and there was a bar nearby. Being pulled over was somewhat understandable. Two hispanic officers came to the car. One was badgering me accusing me of having been drinking even though I gave coherent answers (and was only 16 coming from a church function, which I told him), and the other was shining his light in the face of my crying 10-year-old sister. I'm sorry if I felt unreasonable aggressive behavior from these officers and chalked it up to discrimination.

Another time I felt a black officer was similarly harassing me after pulling me over for speeding. Again, I showed deference and respect to the cop because I wanted him to feel unthreatened, so I felt the harsh tone and badgering questions were unnecessary.

Oh, and tickets both times.

Anyway, you might have caught me, Mackay. I might be a raging racist. Maybe my calling it "racial discrimination" belies the fact that I am indeed a racist and I'm just upset that I received a ticket despite being polite, having a good record, and providing justification (in the first instance)...or we could admit that reverse discrimination happens these days. Sure it's perhaps less likely that I was being persecuted for being white than that a person of a persecuted race in a place of power over a member of the persecuting race took advantage of the situation, but it's not unreasonable for the latter to occur.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[LordKinbote]

[Jedo the Jedi]

My wife pointed out that option after I posted. Consider me ignorant of ageism, but I will admit that could be a different possibility I wasn't aware of.

Mackay still wanted to accuse me of incorrectly assuming I had been persecuted at all.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Buzzsaw]

Not trying to pick on you Jedo, am just curious. Why assume discrimination? What I mean is since you were unfamiliar with those officers, who's to say how they would have handled any given situation - whether differently or not - depending on who it was they were dealing with?

Often people don't handle things as well as they could have been handled (and sometimes that's an understatement), for whatever reason. For that matter some people are just not reasonable.

Not that you might not be right, that they may have treated you with less respect than they would have someone else. That is certainly possible, it's just that how do you know? (Not hassling you, but I think it's a fair question to ask. )

[Jedo the Jedi]

You're correct, Buzz, I can't know any more than itisally knows if she received a warning rather than a ticket because of her gender. All I can say--and did!--was how I felt about the situation. I do know that reverse discrimination (so we're clear, that's minority discriminating against the majority) happens, and I believe those situations were examples. Maybe they weren't.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Zag]

I've been pulled over by cops who were jerks (and also gave me a ticket). It's never occurred to me to consider whether or not it was any form of discrimination. I just assume most cops on traffic duty are jerks. (I've also been pulled over by pleasant, polite cops, some of whom also gave me a ticket.)

[LordKinbote]

[Buzzsaw]

I'd be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, your perception of how the situation went down and why. Was just curious about any details that made it obvious. But just because you're not able to give specific details that might justify your thought/opinion about it, doesn't mean you're wrong about it.

[Buzzsaw]

[Jedo the Jedi]

It is good to admit that it might not have been, that they were having bad days and happened to be of a minority race. That's probably Mackay's point, accusing me of jumping to that conclusion too readily. Maybe I'm racist for thinking race had something to do with it. I can integrate that into my thinking and adjust.

LordKinbote, more power to you for teaching a low-level Geometry class.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Dread Pirate Westley]

[itisally]

LOL. MacKay, whats funny about that is that he is going to school to be an officer and it was his irritation with his classmates comments about such things that had him so bent out of shape.

I teach general education classes in a school that has a criminal justice program and some of those students who are latino or women or what ever oppressed group you want to talk about do comment on the urge to make sure that white guys between the ages of 18 and 55 suffer concequences rather than having any lineancy they may offer to someone eles. It was a heated discussion in an ethics class.

I have seen a little boy ridiculed because he wasn't as black as his friends.

Seen women insist that men couldn't learn to do the dishes and cook dinner at the same time.

The point is ANYONE can be racist even if they are not white.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[itisally]

It is defiantly an interesting study in perception.

It is true that had I not had the conversation with my friend I would not have doubted that the officer was just being nice. Motives are an interesting thing. I was once accused of being racist by a student when I was enforcing a late policy on homework and I (in a less then stellar moment) informed him that my lack of leniency had nothing to do with the color of his skin and everything to do with him being a jerk about it.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[novice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM

[Mackay]

itisally, I wasn't trying to assert that people in minorities cannot be discriminatory. I was poking fun at the fact that Jedo and your friend both reached straight for the conclusion of discrimination against men/white people. People like to feel persecuted, I get it (and I do it myself). It's just the more privileged the person is, the more I am going to ridicule them about it. (This includes myself, though I can honestly say I can think of exactly one time I felt explicitly discriminated against in my entire life*, and it was due to my gender, not a point of privilege such as my whiteness or my religion.)

Jedo, I'm not sure what it was about my post that made you think that:
(a) I was calling you a racist/implying that you are racist, or
(b) I was not 'calm', whatever that means,
but it kind of seems like you had a conversation with yourself on my behalf and came up with something closer to my actual sentiment.

I really want to have a tangential discussion about political correctness - it's a pet subject of mine. Unfortunately I think there was already a thread for it and its content was such that I didn't trust myself to go in there and be reasonable. =)

^{*on the micro/personal level, anyway. On the macro-level I'm going crazy. Unfortunately it is impossible to unsee the social structures/societal norms shouting out how one should behave/appear/live as a woman, once one has become aware of it. And I'm privileged as hell.}

[itisally]

I worry about the idea of "privileged". It implies that they recive more than they should rather than thinking everyone should be at that level of oppertunity.

I like to think of it more as lucky. I am fortunate enough that I have fewer obsticals than some and yet more than others in some cases.

I have to agree about political correctness though. it is how words are used that gives them power. Eventually a negative connotation can be attached to any word if it is used negitavely regardless of its denotation. Like in Battle Star Galatica, we all know what Frack was replacing.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[The Potter]

In the span of about 1 week, I had four interactions with traffic incidents. I didn't have to pay a cent. In all cases, my insurance card was out of date or the registration wasn't available (a friend's car).

The experience with the officer of some non-white-male background was different because he was polite in a different manner. It was just harder for me to make idle conversation.
Or maybe it was just because it was the 2nd night in a row for being pulled over for a missing headlight

[Buzzsaw]

Would be cool if you started a thread, Mackay, a brand new discussion. Btw, I did not think you were actually angry - only direct to the point and with some good points, questions to consider.

[itisally*]

[Buzzsaw]

Can't seem to get my fracks straight, is it Frack or Frak? But at any rate I don't understand what difference the spelling makes or what cursing has to do with replacing an ion propulsion drive.

[itisally]

The spelling just has to do with the old BSG and the New BSG. They wanted it to be a four letter word. Which really nails down the point that what word is used is less important than the intended meaning.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Buzzsaw]

I think there might be a couple whooshes here but I can't tell who's whooshed whom.