Heroes and Villains mafia - The town claim victory

[Jedo the Jedi]

I've thought about it, I've read over the posts of you three, and I just can't shake that Sentran is scum.

Zag was innocent, so the scum didn't kill for two nights. The only person who can stand to gain from that is Sentran, framing Zag for a scum win the night after he would have been lynched. The problem is I pegged MNO.

Then he didn't kill the night he would let me find him innocent. I guess he was hoping and expecting that I would argue for Zag's lynch. When that began to fail, he killed Zag to make it seem like the killer was outside of his RB.

The problem with the night actions isn't simple, but I think I've worked through it. How much sense does it make for a mafia redirector to redirect Sentran to myself on Night 1? Plus, I'm pretty sure we haven't seen any other instances of redirection. It makes more sense that Sentran would lie about having blocked his buddy.

Ultimately, I think it's Sentran. I hope you guys will agree. (Also, he's really good at playing the helpless card. I've seen him do it before as scum.)

vote Sentran

This is (probably) my last post before going out of town. I won't be able to change my vote or see the outcome until Sunday evening.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

I did consider coming on hard and heavy after GK today, after Zag ended up dead, but I still can't shake the feeling that TGC could be playing us all. But, if that were true, why would you have been roleblocked on night one? With MNO coming up Goon, that makes no sense to me.
Due to the number of players left in this game, we need a group consensus to lynch anyone today. I'm the most likely candidate. Not being whiny, just stating facts.
Vote: Garou Kinfolk
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[3iff]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

@Sentran: I know I posted it before, but let me restate it again. If I were scum, I wouldn't have stopped killing at night. AFTER you came forward as a roleblocker, sure, but not before as the timeline is.

I've given it some thought and am surprisingly ok with a lynch attempt on me. I know it won't work, so we go into night. I am confirmed at that point. Someone will be NKed, and we go into the final day with 2 town, 1 scum. It would be easier to decide who is scum from there. That only works if the scum kill again.

As things stand now, I'm going to say it's down to Jedo and Sentran because of the Night 1 RB issue. One of them is lying.

I'm not going to cast a vote until Jedo gets back. This is our last day (unless I get the lynch votes) and I don't want to waste it, like what happened on days 2 and 4.
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[Jedo the Jedi]

[Sentran]

TGC's silence is speaking volumes to me. I need to re-read his posts to see how they sound. I still feel GK is the last remaining scum, but I've been wrong in this game before.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

I agree that it's interesting TGC has time to post in one game but not the other.

If it came down to you (Jedo) and anyone else, I'd vote the other person. The evidence points to you being town. The timing of the kills and TGCs absence work against him, as does posting in the other game when we really need him to speak up here and say why he's innocent. Sentran is the scummiest in my mind, but I don't want to rush this before everyone can post their views/evidence here.
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[Sentran]

My reasoning for my reads are as follows.

Myself: I have demonstrated my powers after MNO was killed, and I have been cleared by Jedo. It makes no logical sense that a Mafia GF with investigation immunity would also be a roleblocker. If I were the final scum, leading a bandwagon against an unlynchable townie would be a stupid play.

Jedo: He is the most confirmed town in my opinion. The only way he could be Mafia is if he had some super-secret win option that required poor play from him. He is leading the wagon against me, who he sees as most scummy. If he were scum, this would be a decent play as well, but it's just as reasonable to come from a townie.

TGC: Far too quiet, but he has proven an ability and he's also cleared by Jedo. It would be about as strange for a clear ability to be in the hands of a GF as it would a roleblocker. But, if he is the final scum, it would be a smart play to wait until another player has two votes and then hammer.

GK: The only option left. He has claimed an ability, which STILL has not been proven. We only have his word to go on. The same point of dropping the hammer applies here as well.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

So I'm stuck on the night 2/roleblocker situation.

Night 1 Sentran claims to have blocked Jadesmar even though Jadesmar had been absent for 4+ pages. There was a night kill. Jedo claims he was blocked.

At that point only 2 players knew of a roleblocker. Sentran and Jedo. Jadesmar was replaced quickly on day 2 and I don't believe there was any reason for MNOWAX to ask the mod what happened night 1.

There was no kill night 2 and we learn of Sentran being the roleblocker early day 3.
This is where it gets tricky for me.

With only 2 players knowing about the roleblocker, the scum didn't kill. This would mean that either
A) Jedo is a GF who was trying to pull a gambit at the same time that he was trying another where he claims cop and buses MNOWAX. Unlikely in my opinion.
or B) Sentran is a mafia roleblocker/GF who was trying to pull a gambit to get Zag lynched. Much more likely in my mind.

If there's a problem with the way either of these look, please let me know where and why.
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[Garou_Kinfolk]

Sorry for the double post. Forgot to do this last time.

F.o.S. Sentran for my last post.
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[Jedo the Jedi]

The only hang-up I have with your logic train (and it's the same as mine), Garou, is that I looked back and saw that it was reasonable for Sentran to block jadesmar. If he's town, he voices suspicion of jadesmar that would lead to him using his power on that lead.

Sentran, my problem with your logic regarding Garou is that he could be a GF with one-time kill immunity and therefore be telling the truth about that power. What good will it do to test it?

The main problem for myself is that I can see scenarios in which I won't believe any of you. If we lynch Garou, I'll still be apprehensive about the above scenario. If Sentran says he will also block the dead Garou, he could just choose not to kill and frame Garou. It really does come down to in-game reads for me, and Sentran just reads as the most scummy.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

I just did a quick read through of Sentrans ISO for day 1. I looked specifically for his interactions with Jadesmar. Here's what I found.

Minor defense of Jadesmar in ISO post 8 about Jadesmar question to TGC defending Perpentach during the lurker discussion.
ISO Post 18 is where he adds Jadesmar to his FOS list. (Sept. 18, 8:01 a.m.)
ISO Post 20 Questions Jadesmar about his hammer vote. (Sept. 18, 8:37 a.m.)
ISO Post 21 Going to look more seriously @ Jadesmar for his hammer vote on Zag. (Sept. 18, 9:52a.m.)
ISO Post 23 Votes Jadesmar for a feeling about him that ge can't shake after rereading and watching the argument. (sept 18, 3:48 p.m.)
ISO Post 30 Up for a Jadesmar lynch. (Sept. 20, 12:45 a.m.)

Another little thing that bugs me is his first 3 posts.
ISO Post 1 Withholds vote. RVS is nearly pointless. (Sept. 6, 8:10 a.m.)
ISO Post 2 Votes for me. (Sept. 6, 2:24 p.m.)
ISO Post 3 Won't move vote and comes up with a reason not to. (Sept. 7, 7:57a.m.)
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[Garou_Kinfolk]

Sorry about the double post. Ran into the character limit on my phone.

In summary for above, it took Sentran 7 hours and 45 minutes to go from FoS, where Jadesmar was lumped in with others for the FOS declaration, to vote.

With the second part about his first 3 posts, it took him 6 hours and 15 minutes to go from withholding vote during "nearly pointless RVS", to voting me because "I'm always either mafia or mason."

Both of those just seem too quick for me.
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[Sentran]

Looking back over Zag's posts, I noticed that he claimed repeatedly that he was roleblocked. That says to me (now that he's confirmed town) that the moderator is informing people when they are blocked. Is the same true for you, Jedo?

To Garou: The RVS showed no signs of slowing at the point in the game where I made my vote, and I was still reading over the dead thread in which you posted that you were always either Mason or Mafia. I felt that as legitimate a reason as any during RVS. I've even used misspellings as a basis for an RVS vote. It holds no more real merit than using a randomizer, but I like it more. I still dislike RVS in general.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Jedo the Jedi]

[The Great Crep'er]

That's a pretty clear-set analysis of today's options on 569. The only thing is, it would be nice IMO to test Garou's ability to cross the t's and dot the i's, and furthering the confusion is that even though there's what seems to be a dead set case, you're still unwilling to throw a vote his way. I think you show more paranoia about my absences (which is gaining interesting reactions for me) than you let on.

@Jedo: If you theorize the above, what is the point of letting the GF keep the ability? Theoretically, if Garou was the GF with the +1, we could lynch him and still be in a prime position to lynch him tomorrow if he blipped at all on the scumdar.

The only thing is it is a hugeass gamble and even though Sentran would be a nice choice - you can't decide to put him in the fray without Jedo bringing up the possibilities of a lot of outside game elements that are just not as easily discernible from the thread talk. Just a bunch of second guessing.

Frankenstorm is in NY for this week so I am available to hammer this out and bring the thread to a close. @GK: Is there anything we should know about that may make this ability of yours faulty?
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Potato. Belgium. Eight. Random Lynch # Mafia awaits.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Garou, you are trying to find a reason why scum wouldn't have killed that night? I mean, framing Zag is a pretty good reason, if it is Sentran and MNO who thought up that gambit and were hoping the town would take the bait. Otherwise, I can only imagine if MNO had come up with that because jadesmar was blocked Night 1, but the problems there have already been illuminated: 1) jadesmar/MNO don't seem to have a power which would alert them to the issue, 2) I received information that I was blocked, and 3) I don't think MNO would have received or asked for that information from the mod.

The more we talk about it, the more I'm comfortable with lynching Sentran.

TGC, I know it makes sense to take that away in case he is the scum, but my point was to say there are all kinds of theories I can produce and there is no sense chasing them. Also, if we didn't lynch Sentran today thinking Garou was scum, Sentran could just block Garou; but that takes us right back to my problems with what those night actions would "reveal."
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

@TGC: Good to see you again. The only hitch I can think of is this. I get the lynch vote for today. We go to night. At that point, I get roleblocked and night killed. Here's the hitch though. My ability was already activated, so I don't know if a roleblock would work.
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[Garou_Kinfolk]

At this point I'm waiting to see who TGC thinks is the final Scum/votes for. If it's me, then I'll probably have to go through the game and try to find more supporting evidence and debate it out until we reach a conclusion. If it's Sentran then I'll happily hammer another scum.
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[The Great Crep'er]

At this point, you could vote Sentran and force his lynch no matter what.

Vote: Sentran

[Jedo the Jedi]

If Sentran is the scum, I'll breathe a sigh of relief and feel it was a hard-won battle. If not, I'll be disappointed that we weren't able to nab the final scum. (It will probably turn out to be Garou who was lying about absolutely everything.)

Actually, I can't bring myself to let that happen. unvote; vote: Garou_Kinfolk He has had absolutely no check of his power or his alignment. If he survives the lynch, I'm all for a speed lynch of Sentran tomorrow.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Jedo the Jedi]

For the record, my reasoning is that there still could be a re-director out there (explaining the conflicting Night 1 stories), and the only option for that in my mind is Garou since he hasn't had a demonstrated power yet.

If the game isn't over from a Garou lynch, don't let Sentran talk you out of lynching him tomorrow.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

That's an interesting development. Not entirely unexpected though.

So here's the idea.

Vote: Sentran

So at this point if we hit a deadline I would be the lynch if not for my ability. As I had stated before, I don't know if it will roll off of me onto the next person, or if it will result in a no lynch. If it roles off, it'll hit Sentran. If it is a no lynch, Jedo can investigate me. There will be a night kill and we can quick lynch Sentran tomorrow.

I'm fine with how either outcome.

Mod: Can we request a deadline? I'm not right now, just being curious.
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[3iff]

Of course you can request a deadline. The tricky thing is to give everyone the feeling that they have enough time to make deliberations...(I think I got it wrong last time )

As for timing, I have the weekend off (no internet) and I'm also likely to be unavailable on Monday so there will be an absence for me for those days.

If the vote can be finalised for Friday morning (my time) then I'll have enough time to prepare for night 5. If not, then the next opportunity for me will be next Tuesday.

So, not a deadline as such but a decision in the next 48 hours or so will be convenient.

[3iff]

[Jedo the Jedi]

I probably won't have more to say, and if it ends sooner, I won't be tempted to change my mind again.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[3iff]

I can take it that if everyone is happy with their current vote (and they can confirm as much) then I can end the day when that happens...in any case I'll set a deadline for Friday morning, say 48 hours from this post.

However, anyone may request an extension (via PM to me if they wish anonymity).

I hope that's acceptable?

[Garou_Kinfolk]

I'm happy with where my vote is at. Sounds like Jedo is too.

Confirm vote: Sentran
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[Sentran]

Confirm Vote: Garou Kinfolk

At this point in the game, I feel that prolonging the day will not result in any changes of opinion/votes. We'll just be rehashing what we've all said before.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Jedo the Jedi]

Confirm vote: Garou_Kinfolk

Sentran, who will you be blocking? (It doesn't matter much, but for posterity's sake.)
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

Good question. If GK is lynched, and game does not end, I will block TGC. If GK is not lynched, and I am lynched instead, I won't be blocking. If GK lives, no lynch occurs, and we go to night with 4... I suppose GK would be the likely choice for me.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[3iff]

With all the current votes confirmed, I will treat this as end of day.

*****

Dr Venkman summoned the residents into the main reception room once again.

"Please be seated" he announced. "It is my responsibility to announce the next resident to leave. After a lot, and I mean a lot, of discussion, our friend Garou_Kinfolk has been selected. If he would kindly step forward please..."

It was then that the assembled residents noticed he was missing. Dr Venkman raised his hand and nurse Diesel sprang into action. Summoning the assistant nurse they quickly moved to Garou's room. He wasn't there. Once they had informed Dr Venkman, the entire group all moved off to search the building and the grounds. They searched the bedrooms, the games room, the kitchen, the TV room. Chance and one of the assistant nurses made a thorough search of the gardens and the toolshed. In fact every inch of the estate was examined. He was nowhere.

An hour later, he still hadn't been discovered. Dr Venkman was not amused. At 10.30 he announced that if Garou had not been located by 11.00 then he would be going to bed and nothing would happen to Garou that evening. The search resumed in earnest.

11pm arrived and Dr Venkman left the room. He had had enough. Everyone else looked around, puzzled, and eventually everyone went to bed.

There will be no lynch tonight.

===============

[3iff]

There's another no-show at breakfast. Dr Venkman emits an audible sigh and proceeds to investigate. Jedo is all wrapped up like a present with a neatly secured plastic bag over his head. He is quite dead. A white card is found in the desk drawer.

Player: Jedo the Jedi
Role Name: Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)
Role: Sane FBI Agent, Town


It's Day 6. 3 alive, 2 to lynch.

Remember, after today I won't be back until Tuesday.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Go, town!
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

As I said, I roleblocked Garou. I guess that leaves just one option.
Vote: The Great Crep'er
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Since we have the entire weekend before 3iff comes back, I'm going to withhold my vote for now.
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[The Great Crep'er]

Right about now is when I cash in my endorsements from town players.

I'll be back to post more in a few hours (hopefully) but Garou, if there is any question on your mind about my play (other than the main obvious one) feel free to ask.