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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: 41 |
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| Death Mage wrote: |
| I'm sorry to hear you were having such a rough day recently, Buzz, I hope you are feeling better by now. |
Condesending.
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| This is much ado about nothing. |
Like I said, your post went beyond just talking about the ratings of a show. It was condescending. |
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: 42 |
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| They should do a Mythbuster's episode on whether it's actually possible to do the things depicted in the video. |
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Death Mage
Raving Lunatic
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: 43 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| Condesending. |
I took your out-of-place, over-reactive outburst as a sign that you had been having a bad time. This is not an invalid assumption. Now I can see I was wrong. You weren't having a bad day, you're just an asshole with absolutely no sense of perspective.
| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| Like I said, your post went beyond just talking about the ratings of a show. It was condescending. |
You're right, I went well beyond simply talking about the ratings of a show. As I pointed in in my last post. I pointed out how I was simultaneously pointing out that I believed your theories to be false while acknowledging the aforementioned your being an asshole with absolutely no sense of perspective - though I was still laboring under the false assumption that it was due to a bad day on your part. Don't worry, I won't make that mistake again.
In fact, I won't make the mistake of responding to you again after this. I am done with you. You are rude, abrasive, paranoid,and lashing out at people for daring to have a different OPINION than yours even when they don't express an opinion on the matter at all! Fuck off.
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: 44 |
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Death Mage, I only misunderstood your joke. I fully stand behind what I said, that is my gripe with you in the context it was written, that is the understanding I had (when objecting to what you'd said.)
When I realized my error - that is that the original context of my complaint with you was completely invalid, I thought the proper thing to do was apologize to you. Which I did.
You then start off a post about my health (wth?) - beyond condesceding, and then go beyond the rating thing but belittle mere interest in the topic, backed up by you blowing off the question at hand. You talk down, dude. And after the catty "heath" comment, chose to call you out about it, since I am the starter of the thread, particularly object to your condescending tone and will not tolerate it.
If you're avoiding me, you'll be doing me a favor. Go start your own threads, troll, to tell your romper room jokes in. And there you can condescend to whomever you choose. . |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: 45 |
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| extropalopakettle wrote: |
| They should do a Mythbuster's episode on whether it's actually possible to do the things depicted in the video. |
I don't see the Matt Cain mentioned for upcoming episode (Nov 4th) on directv's menu. (I have never actually seen a Mythbusters episode but am familiar with the show.) Am certain that this will be debunked though, too much interest in this video, several discussions going on about it.
Here's one at the straight dope and one at MetaFilter.
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:19 am Post subject: 46 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
Death Mage, I only misunderstood your joke. I fully stand behind what I said, that is my gripe with you in the context it was written, that is the understanding I had (when objecting to what you'd said.)
When I realized my error - that is that the original context of my complaint with you was completely invalid, I thought the proper thing to do was apologize to you. Which I did.
You then start off a post about my health (wth?) - beyond condesceding, and then go beyond the rating thing but belittle mere interest in the topic, backed up by you blowing off the question at hand. You talk down, dude. And after the catty "heath" comment, chose to call you out about it, since I am the starter of the thread, particularly object to your condescending tone and will not tolerate it.
If you're avoiding me, you'll be doing me a favor. Go start your own threads, troll, to tell your romper room jokes in. And there you can condescend to whomever you choose. . |
The Mythbusters team wanted to bring us all together in our love of seeing things smashed by a baseball, but instead they've torn us apart. Damn you, Matt Cain! Dammmmnnnnn yooooouuuuuu! |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:36 am Post subject: 47 |
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Given that the episode is on tonight (Cain is mentioned on the Comcast episdoe info), I should get my best guess in now.
I'm going with FAKE, based largely on how easily Cain tosses the ball. No windup, all arm. Maybe he can throw 95 from the windup off a mound, I doubt he can come near that with a tossing motion.
I also can't see any way that this being a fake video would hurt Mythbusters' ratings/credibility. I actually think it would be cool if they did a few different videos, some real, some fake, and viewers had to see if they could pick out the fakes (sorta like that Penn and Teller show) with a full reveal at the end.
The Mythbusters often "fake" things. When myths fail, they "fake" it to replicate the results. For example, remember Jamie pulling the tablecloth off the table with the motocycle? If just that clip was posted online as a viral video, wouldn't that be very similar? (Until you saw their real trials, and their rig for the "fake" replication of results)
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:36 pm Post subject: 48 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| The Mythbusters often "fake" things. When myths fail, they "fake" it to replicate the results. For example, remember Jamie pulling the tablecloth off the table with the motocycle? If just that clip was posted online as a viral video, wouldn't that be very similar? (Until you saw their real trials, and their rig for the "fake" replication of results) |
I am surprised by this.
Is this the video you're talking about? This clip is on the Discovery channel site, shows a motorcycle getting up to high speed before tether tightens.. But are you saying this has been faked?
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/tablecloth-pull-angle-1.htm
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: 49 |
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I think Suspence is suggesting it is "fake" in that they have special apparatus which you don't necessarily know about which helps them accomplish the task. If they didn't tell you about those extras and posted it online, wouldn't that be considered "fake"? If that's the case, then the Matt Cain video shouldn't be any more surprising or detrimental to the Mythbusters' image.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: 50 |
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| What special apparatus? And what special apparatus might apply to the baseball video? |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: 51 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I think Suspence is suggesting it is "fake" in that they have special apparatus which you don't necessarily know about which helps them accomplish the task. If they didn't tell you about those extras and posted it online, wouldn't that be considered "fake"? If that's the case, then the Matt Cain video shouldn't be any more surprising or detrimental to the Mythbusters' image. |
I think we would need to know what the special apparatus is. If someone cannot specify we're back to square one. No one should simply take someone's word for it that some kind of special apparatus was used - the person making the claim needs to specify what the "special apparatus" used was, or what exactly is fake, and do a reasonable job to show it's correct info.
My question: is this motorcycle video "faked" and if so how? What other Mythbusters events were faked, including relevant specifics? |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: 52 |
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I can't see the video you posted from where I am at the moment, but they did a "pull the tablecloth" from short range by placing a secured clear plastic sheet between the tablecloth and the dishware. The tablecloth comes right out, the dishes don't move. They were actually debunking a viral video, so they replicated it using the "fake" techniqie to show how it could be done.
They explain this of course, but if you just saw the clip of the pull, we'd be in the same scenario.
I'm not sure how they faked the baseball (if they did) but there are many plausible ways. If they did fake it, I expect them to explain fully how they did so.
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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L'lanmal
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: 53 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| My question: is this motorcycle video "faked" and if so how? What other Mythbusters events were faked, including relevant specifics? |
They posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9Xuxs-8L4 in advance of a viral videos episode. In the episode, they reveal that it was accomplished by randomly messing up a rubic's cube and playing it back in reverse. |
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extropalopakettle
No offense, but....
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:16 pm Post subject: 54 |
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| extropalopakettle wrote: |
| Elethiomel wrote: |
| I like the theory that it's an off-screen cannon doing the shooting. |
I though Mythbusters gave up on using cannons. |
For those who didn't get the reference, watch the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sCeTyAXFUI
(even if you heard the story, the video is enlightening) |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: 55 |
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Buzz, I feel like you are particularly sensitive to this video, and I really don't understand why. I thought the whole point of this thread was for people to say what they think about the video. None of us have any other information than what we have seen, so everything we say is conjecture. Why does every guess have to be correct?
In fact, the bit from Suspence is that the Mythbusters do try to replicate experiments, and sometimes they have extra things which help them accomplish that. I mean, when doing the table cloth thing without a motorcycle, the dishes are often weighted, so wouldn't that be fake? Suspence was just saying if you saw this video without explanation, it would be "fake" and wouldn't matter for the credibility of Mythbusters.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject: 56 |
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I can't find the Mythbusters version, but the original viral video and an explanation of the Mythbusters shoot is found here:
http://bmwmcmag.com/2010/10/mythbusting-bmws-tablecloth-trick/
| The author of that page wrote: |
| The Mythbusters won’t leave it there, however, they go on to reproduce the video by creating a fake setup with a piece of clear plastic between place settings and table cloth. By screwing the plastic down at one end, and with the help of some dry lubricant, they do recreate the video with Jamie’s bike “magically” pulling the table cloth out without knocking over a single table settings. |
As Jedo pointed out, I'm just saying that if you cut the correct 5 second clip out of that Mythbusters episode, you'd have a "fake" viral video,
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I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject: 57 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
I can't see the video you posted from where I am at the moment, but they did a "pull the tablecloth" from short range by placing a secured clear plastic sheet between the tablecloth and the dishware. The tablecloth comes right out, the dishes don't move. They were actually debunking a viral video, so they replicated it using the "fake" techniqie to show how it could be done.
They explain this of course, but if you just saw the clip of the pull, we'd be in the same scenario.
I'm not sure how they faked the baseball (if they did) but there are many plausible ways. If they did fake it, I expect them to explain fully how they did so. |
That is very interesting. I am curious though, when seeing the preparation and setup for the stunt, did they inform the audience that they were using the plastic?
I think that's important, and also am curious if they did not, how did the audience find out (that they used the plastic to aid in the slipperiness of the table)?
| L'lanmal wrote: |
| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| My question: is this motorcycle video "faked" and if so how? What other Mythbusters events were faked, including relevant specifics? |
They posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9Xuxs-8L4 in advance of a viral videos episode. In the episode, they reveal that it was accomplished by randomly messing up a rubic's cube and playing it back in reverse. |
Thanks for this post, feel like we're getting somewhere. The more I find out about this though the more I feel confidently this is a real demonstration. For example I think there's a point where faking a video like this becomes pointless - when technology needed to do so becomes so elaborate, it really doesn't emphasize anything anymore if anyone does believe it. |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: 58 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
I can't find the Mythbusters version, but the original viral video and an explanation of the Mythbusters shoot is found here:
http://bmwmcmag.com/2010/10/mythbusting-bmws-tablecloth-trick/
| The author of that page wrote: |
| The Mythbusters won’t leave it there, however, they go on to reproduce the video by creating a fake setup with a piece of clear plastic between place settings and table cloth. By screwing the plastic down at one end, and with the help of some dry lubricant, they do recreate the video with Jamie’s bike “magically” pulling the table cloth out without knocking over a single table settings. |
As Jedo pointed out, I'm just saying that if you cut the correct 5 second clip out of that Mythbusters episode, you'd have a "fake" viral video, |
This research experiment by mythbusters was to first analyze a film (that went viral) of a motorcycle removing a table cloth (with dishes on it) and then go about attempting to reproduce that? Is that right? Gosh, that sure is a different context than the ball video.
For example, what possible "apparatus" could possibly have been used in the baseball shots? Using CGI or outright altering the film by spicing/editing is a huge stretch between using any kind of "apparatus", like the plastic. With proper context or without. I still don't understand why no one seems to understand my points.  |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:31 pm Post subject: 59 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| Suspence wrote: |
I can't see the video you posted from where I am at the moment, but they did a "pull the tablecloth" from short range by placing a secured clear plastic sheet between the tablecloth and the dishware. The tablecloth comes right out, the dishes don't move. They were actually debunking a viral video, so they replicated it using the "fake" techniqie to show how it could be done.
They explain this of course, but if you just saw the clip of the pull, we'd be in the same scenario.
I'm not sure how they faked the baseball (if they did) but there are many plausible ways. If they did fake it, I expect them to explain fully how they did so. |
That is very interesting. I am curious though, when seeing the preparation and setup for the stunt, did they inform the audience that they were using the plastic?
I think that's important, and also am curious if they did not, how did the audience find out (that they used the plastic to aid in the slipperiness of the table)? |
Just for clarity, the plastic wasn't used for slipperiness. The silverware was on the plastic,and the tablecloth was between the plastic and the table surface. The motorcycle simply pulled the tablecloth from between the table and plastic. The plastic was secured at one end, so it didn't move as the cloth was pulled out.
As far as the setup, I'm only going off memory, but I believe they did as they usually do - saying that since the myth was busted they would replicate the result. Adam theorized that the viral video was done with a plastic sheet, and then they did it. From the point of a viewer watching the episode, it was clear that this was a "fake", but as I said a clipped version of that episode would make for a "fake" viral video.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:34 pm Post subject: 60 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| I still don't understand why no one seems to understand my points. |
And some of us feel the same about you.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:35 pm Post subject: 61 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
Buzz, I feel like you are particularly sensitive to this video, and I really don't understand why. I thought the whole point of this thread was for people to say what they think about the video. None of us have any other information than what we have seen, so everything we say is conjecture. Why does every guess have to be correct?
In fact, the bit from Suspence is that the Mythbusters do try to replicate experiments, and sometimes they have extra things which help them accomplish that. I mean, when doing the table cloth thing without a motorcycle, the dishes are often weighted, so wouldn't that be fake? Suspence was just saying if you saw this video without explanation, it would be "fake" and wouldn't matter for the credibility of Mythbusters. |
I am puzzled by this, but did not mean to be offensive to you in any way, don't see where that happened. I don't think any of the points need to be correct, heck we don't even know what correct is. However, I don't think someone should be able to say "no one out there cares and everyone feels that way, because this is just much ado about nothing", then that kind of view is just trolling. It only makes sense that there are people out there who would care about the credibility of a show like this. If someone says "I don't think it will" is a lot different than saying "no one ever will and that's because this topic is not important". How can someone speak for everyone? I have already said that credibility is important to me. Do you think I am the only one? Do you think faking stunts could possibly help ratings, esp in the long term? To me, that just makes no sense.
So I don't understand your complaint, unless you're speaking on behalf of Death Mage. Many of the posters in this thread have disagreed with me and I have respected and appreciated every single one of those posts.
Last edited by Buzzsaw on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: 62 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| I still don't understand why no one seems to understand my points. |
And some of us feel the same about you. |
Jedo, you're threadshitting by way of trolling. Please don't.
Last edited by Buzzsaw on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Suspence
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: 63 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| This research experiment by mythbusters was to first analyze a film (that went viral) of a motorcycle removing a table cloth (with dishes on it) and then go about attempting to reproduce that? Is that right? Gosh, that sure is a different context than the ball video. |
I guess my overall point is we don't know the context of the Matt Cain video yet. Perhaps there is an internet video out there of someone throwing a baseball through stuff. So the Mythbusters bring in Matt Cain to test the myth. The myth is busted, so they then show how that video could have be made. That would seem very similar.
_________________
I hate people who try to write interesting things in their signature.
Last edited by Suspence on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:43 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:39 pm Post subject: 64 |
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| Suspence wrote: |
| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| This research experiment by mythbusters was to first analyze a film (that went viral) of a motorcycle removing a table cloth (with dishes on it) and then go about attempting to reproduce that? Is that right? Gosh, that sure is a different context than the ball video. |
I guess my overall point is we don't know the context of the Matt Cain video yet. Perhaps there is an internet video out there of someone throwing a baseball through stuff. So the Mythbusters bring in Matt Cain to test the myth. The myth is busted, so they then show how that video could have be made. That would seem very similar. |
Fair enough. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: 65 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| So I don't understand your complaint, unless you're speaking on behalf of Death Mage. Many of the posters in this thread have disagreed with me and I have respected and appreciated every single one of those posts. |
The problem is it doesn't seem like you are really reading people's posts. You didn't understand Death Mage's post (which isn't what I have been responding to most recently), and you didn't understand Suspence's post or my clarification.
| Buzzsaw wrote: |
| No one should simply take someone's word for it that some kind of special apparatus was used - the person making the claim needs to specify what the 'special apparatus' used was, or what exactly is fake, and do a reasonable job to show it's correct info. |
This was your response to a suggestion that some of their tests might be considered "fake" if not put in the proper context. An example was then given of how that might be true. The above was your response. Do you see how you aren't really responding to what they said? Then you put in your post "I still don't understand why no one seems to understand my points." It's because you are talking past them and not really reading what they said.
Now, I will defend Death Mage. In case you didn't realize, his entire post was his opinion. He didn't shut everybody down and tell them there was nothing more to talk about. He said he thought it didn't matter whether it was real or fake, and that if it was a fake video, it isn't surprising considering that's part of what they do. If that doesn't really fit what you viewed the thread being about, then ignore it. Your response to him and me has been censorship--the very thing it seems you are accusing Death Mage of.
I would say if you want better responses in your thread, you should probably set the example.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:05 pm Post subject: 66 |
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DNFTT
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Death Mage
Raving Lunatic
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: 67 |
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| L'lanmal wrote: |
| They posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9Xuxs-8L4 in advance of a viral videos episode. In the episode, they reveal that it was accomplished by randomly messing up a rubic's cube and playing it back in reverse. |
Wait wait wait, you mean the Mythbusters already have a history of posting viral videos USING trickery to create fake results, in advance of one of their episodes? This is an outrage! That is it, I am never watching that show again. And I'm going to start an online petition to voice my resentment of this horrible treatment. And organize a letter-writing campaign to try to get them taken off the airwaves! And for good measure, we should probably bomb San Francisco too. We can't be too careful.
_________________
* These senseless ramblings brought to you by Insanity™. If you just can't figure the dang thing out, it must be Insanity™.
[YOUR AD HERE!] |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: 68 |
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| Death Mage wrote: |
| L'lanmal wrote: |
| They posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9Xuxs-8L4 in advance of a viral videos episode. In the episode, they reveal that it was accomplished by randomly messing up a rubic's cube and playing it back in reverse. |
Wait wait wait, you mean the Mythbusters already have a history of posting viral videos USING trickery to create fake results, in advance of one of their episodes? This is an outrage! That is it, I am never watching that show again. And I'm going to start an online petition to voice my resentment of this horrible treatment. And organize a letter-writing campaign to try to get them taken off the airwaves! And for good measure, we should probably bomb San Francisco too. We can't be too careful. |
Am glad you're back Death Mage. Btw, I wasn't going to ignore you, at least not outside this thread.
They produced the fake video for the reason they did, I accept that. But there was a reason, and it was explained. So faking results is not something we can expect these hosts to do.
Unless like has been said, it's for a "special occasion" - that means if they did fake this we should expect them to come clean about it, at least eventually.
You can exaggerate with sarcasm, Death Mage, but the fact remains, you're wrong. Concerning whether these mythbusting people would outright fake a video under normal circumstances, this is easy.
Which makes more sense, "no one cares about whether the hosts lie" or "some people care whether the hosts lie". I think it should be obvious which one is safe to stick by. If it's not, then we agree to disagree.
I have come to respect you as a decent poster, Death Mage. I am hoping you can accept my apology for the misunderstanding in the earlier part of this thread and we can move on. It's up to you of course, but I am not going to harbor any bad feelings about you.
peace out,
~buzz |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:46 am Post subject: 69 |
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As I suspected, no mention of video in question on Mythbusters episode tonight.
Topic with Matt Cain,":Can a needle pierce a hole through a sheet of glass?" 
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LordKinbote
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: 70 |
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| Buzzsaw wrote: |
As I suspected, no mention of video in question on Mythbusters episode tonight.
Topic with Matt Cain,":Can a needle pierce a hole through a sheet of glass?"
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Which is clearly the NP-hard version of the "can a baseball pierce a hole through a pizza box" problem. If you can prove one works, then you can prove the other.  |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:29 am Post subject: 71 |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:15 pm Post subject: 72 |
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It looks like I might be proved wrong, this photo here looks mighty suspicious.
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: 73 |
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Another photo that is making me lean towards the "fake" side.
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Elethiomel
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:04 pm Post subject: 74 |
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Buzzsaw
Newbie Guidance Counselor
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