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spyrl
Daedalian Member
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 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: 121 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| The point being, any claim somebody makes (town or scum) should reasonably sound like a town role, and it still means only the scum are benefiting from the extra knowledge. |
I would argue that just because you're town doesn't mean that you have a town sounding role. In Sentran's Game of Thrones game, I was a townie, Gregor Clegane, a character who I felt would have been a perfect scum role. It wasn't just me either, Day 1 in the game other players also stated that if he was in the game, he was not a good guy and almost certain to be scum. I think that was the hardest game I've had to play so far lol. I was town but with a name that would have gotten me lynched on principle.
I would also argue that it isn't just the scum who benefit from additional knowledge. Any knowledge in a game has the potential to benefit anyone in the game, not just the scummy ones. After all, isn't it knowledge that allows us to nail scum?
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:24 pm Post subject: 122 |
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| spyrl wrote: |
| In Sentran's Game of Thrones game, I was a townie, Gregor Clegane, .., Day 1 in the game other players also stated that if he was in the game, he was not a good guy and almost certain to be scum. |
I'd like to point out that those of us saying it were all actually scum. We were trying to set you up. |
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Raearia
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:00 am Post subject: 123 |
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SO at the start of the game according to post 35 here are the number of posts per player.
1. Zag 11
2. Sentran 4
3. Garou_Kinfolk 2
4. The Great Crep'er 6
5. Amb 12
6. Raearia 4 (including this post)
7. Leonidas 1
8. MNOWAX 0
9. Raekuul 6
10. 3iff 6
11. Undercover Monk 4
12. esme 2
13. Jedo the Jedi 7
14. Dragon Phoenix 11
15. spyrl 4
Now this is not including any of the posts before post 35 by Sniklac, as the game had not officially begun until that point.
Zag I also appreciate you answering earlier my question in depth.
Assuming I am correct in my numbers, who would be considered a lurker? Is there a minimum post or is it the content of the posts made?
For now Unvote TGC
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: 124 |
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| Dragon Phoenix wrote: |
| The lack of willingness of players to join me on the esme vote is noted. |
The willingness of the second voter to claim an idea as his own is also noted.
Strong FOS: Dragon Phoenix
| Dragon Phoenix wrote: |
| Lovely. One scum caught. |
Care to elaborate/explain?
| Zag wrote: |
| Well, esme has replied, and lurking was my only reason for voting. |
I actually agree with this, as it was my primary purpose for voting him as well.
Unvote: esme
| Amb wrote: |
| See to me, that seems like a Freudian slip... |
Great point, and I honestly would have missed it if it hadn't been pointed out.
Vote: Jedo the Jedi
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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esme
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:46 am Post subject: 125 |
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| Sentran wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| Well, esme has replied, and lurking was my only reason for voting. |
I actually agree with this, as it was my primary purpose for voting him as well.
Unvote: esme
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I appreciate the unvote, but the preceding sentence is a no-brainer first day vote for me.
Vote:Sentran
It just makes sense to vote for her.
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:58 am Post subject: 126 |
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| It's not like MNO to not be posting at all.... |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:53 am Post subject: 127 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| spyrl wrote: |
| In Sentran's Game of Thrones game, I was a townie, Gregor Clegane, .., Day 1 in the game other players also stated that if he was in the game, he was not a good guy and almost certain to be scum. |
I'd like to point out that those of us saying it were all actually scum. We were trying to set you up. |
Great point. I would also say, spyrl, that on Day 1, the information from multiple claims is only beneficial to scum. Sure, that information might be beneficial down the line, but you really need to weigh scum's ability to manipulate information early in the game when the town as a whole doesn't know what is truth.
| Amb wrote: |
| It's not like MNO to not be posting at all.... |
I usually counter this by giving a slight defense that this is a town trait of him, but I'm pretty sure he's started to burn me on that of late.
| Sentran wrote: |
| Amb wrote: |
| See to me, that seems like a Freudian slip... |
Great point, and I honestly would have missed it if it hadn't been pointed out.
Vote: Jedo the Jedi |
Noted.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:38 am Post subject: 128 |
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| Zag wrote: |
Well, esme has replied, and lurking was my only reason for voting.
unvote esme
| Dragon Phoenix wrote: |
| Lovely. One scum caught. |
This 'Damsel in Distress' act -- oh, please come support me ... Hah! you supported me, you must be scum! -- is at the very least annoying if not downright scummy. It deserves a vote.
If you didn't really think your argument made sense, why did you make it? Let me point out that I was attacked and very nearly lynched on day 1 for a similar thing last game. I've decided that making an argument you don't believe in with the plan to accuse anyone who agrees with you is tantamount to lying.
Lynch all liars. vote Dragon Phoenix
In any case, all I agreed to was that it made some sense to put pressure on a lurker. Oh, I must be scum for that! |
You're not scum for your vote. You're scum for the wording and the tone of that post.
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: 130 |
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| Garou_Kinfolk wrote: |
unvote. Vote: 3iff
You don't just vote for a mans wife and expect to get away with it during RVS.  |
Is that because I voted for esme? Who might be a different alignment to you? Besides, I don't know RL man/wife combinations of players here so it's a bit harsh to make accusations.
What's worse is that I had my vote on MNO at the time...and you haven't made similar accusations against other esme voters...
Suspicious.
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raekuul
Lives under a bridge & tells stories.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:53 am Post subject: 131 |
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| Dragon Phoenix wrote: |
| Oh, and the knee-jerk vote for the one voting for you is another scumtell. |
This is day one. EVERYTHING is a scumtell until proven otherwise. |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:40 pm Post subject: 132 |
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| Dragon Phoenix wrote: |
| You're not scum for your vote. You're scum for the wording and the tone of that post. |
Then your scum detector ranks right up there with UMonk's from last game.
But I'm happy with my vote. |
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject: 133 |
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| 3iff wrote: |
| Garou_Kinfolk wrote: |
unvote. Vote: 3iff
You don't just vote for a mans wife and expect to get away with it during RVS. |
Is that because I voted for esme? Who might be a different alignment to you? Besides, I don't know RL man/wife combinations of players here so it's a bit harsh to make accusations. |
Spyrl is my wife, not esme. I know that Spyrl and I had mentioned it in an earlier game or two.
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What's worse is that I had my vote on MNO at the time...and you haven't made similar accusations against other esme voters...
Suspicious.
( ) |
Um.... no you didn't. Here's the timeline.
| 3iff, Post subject: 53 wrote: |
Oh, that was shorter than I thought.
Vote: esme because I've never voted for esme before. |
| 3iff, Post subject: 83 wrote: |
MNO is too quiet for my liking.
Unvote. Vote MNOWAX |
| 3iff, Post subject: 95 wrote: |
I think "taking the 5th" means "the right to say nothing to incriminate yourself" but as I'm not American either I'm not 100% sure...and I'm NOT going to google it (something I normally do...)
There are an awful lot of players around here not playing. The last post from a non-regular is a couple of days ago. Methinks they are trying to stay out of the light.
Unvote: Vote spyrl just to shake the tree a bit. |
| Garou_Kinfolk, Post subject: 99 wrote: |
unvote. Vote: 3iff
You don't just vote for a mans wife and expect to get away with it during RVS. |
I like my vote where it is even better now. 
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3iff
very unbifflike
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: 134 |
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Oops...my record keeping is a tad inept...You're right....that my vote had changed. Apologies for accusing you getting things wrong.
Unvote: Vote MNOWAX I think my vote is better here. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:12 pm Post subject: 135 |
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| raekuul wrote: |
| This is day one. EVERYTHING is a scumtell until proven otherwise. |
FOS Raekuul. This is clearly a scumtell, talking about scumtells. Oh wait... |
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Leonidas
Membre Daedalien
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:49 pm Post subject: 136 |
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I'm going to unvote, vote: Zag based on what I've read so far.
| Zag wrote: |
| I'm going to consider Garou town for the rest on the game, now. |
See, this is either very naive or scummy. Scums like to proclaim the innocence of players they know to be town: it helps them win friends and influence people. Unless of course you were joking - in which case, well, this is Day 1, and you're still my choice for now. |
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spyrl
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: 137 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| spyrl wrote: |
| In Sentran's Game of Thrones game, I was a townie, Gregor Clegane, .., Day 1 in the game other players also stated that if he was in the game, he was not a good guy and almost certain to be scum. |
I'd like to point out that those of us saying it were all actually scum. We were trying to set you up. |
Great point. |
I was surprised that my role was town so it didn't surprise me that others (scum or not) agreed with me. I would like to point out that not everyone who was commenting on it was scum and regardless, if the character hadn't had such a dark shadow to it's name to begin with, it wouldn't have made for a good set up. It's much easier to frame a character who looks like they belong on "the dark side" than it is to frame one who looks like a good guy.
Vote MNOWAX because he's been way too quiet this game.
_________________
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here! |
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spyrl
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:36 pm Post subject: 138 |
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Forgot the unvote Zag part before the Vote MNOWAX in my last post
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"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here! |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: 139 |
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| Leonidas wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| I'm going to consider Garou town for the rest on the game, now. |
See, this is either very naive or scummy. ... |
Umm, yeah. I was joking. But I can't argue with finding it scummy; I might have, too, if it weren't me saying it. |
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:26 pm Post subject: 140 |
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Yay! I can concentrate on this game more effectively now. Just unofficially finishes the H.v.V. game. Sorry I hadn't posted much. That should change now.
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raekuul
Lives under a bridge & tells stories.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: 141 |
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| Good, that means I can get around to voting you for a semi-serious reason that people are going to use as an excuse to vote me. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: 142 |
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unvote
| Quote: |
Unofficial Vote Count:
Zag (2) - Dragon Phoenix, Leonidas
Jedo the Jedi (2) - Amb, Sentran
MNOWAX (2) - 3iff, spyrl
Dragon Phoenix (1) - Zag
Amb (1) - The Great Crep'er
3iff (1) - Garou_Kinfolk
Sentran (1) - esme
Not Voting: MNOWAX, Undercover Monk, Raearia |
There was a boatload of vote movement. For those of you who analyze those things, it might be illuminating. (I don't know for sure, but there is certainly a lot of data for analysis.)
Anyway, I'll go with vote: Sentran. What I noted above feels like the sort of scum thing he's done against me before. If he is scum, I'm surprised he would do it again, but he might have forgotten my ability to catch him as scum since it has been a while.  Still, just a Day 1 inkling and placeholder until a true bandwagon emerges. (Some of you may call this "OMGUS," but that would just demonstrate your stupidity.)
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:21 am Post subject: 143 |
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While my vote may have appeared a "me too" vote, that's because it was. Amb pointed out something that I had overlooked, and the read sounded completely reasonable to me. Much more intelligent than the continued joke votes that run prevalent on day 1. I've noticed that this is the second time I get blamed for things that other people initiate.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:50 am Post subject: 144 |
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You're not being blamed for something somebody else initiated. I think Amb's vote is perfectly reasonable from his perspective (though I obviously know he is wrong); but you look like a scum finding an easy reason to jump on somebody. Then, if it happens to pick up, you were on it early and can avoid some suspicion later, and let's face it, it wouldn't surprise anybody if a bandwagon picked up on me. Anyway, I'm just saying you've done it before, so I'm going to go with it for now.
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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raekuul
Lives under a bridge & tells stories.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: 145 |
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Well, it looks like we're finally entering serious mode.
Sentran: don't feed Jedo any more ammunition than you already have, he already said that he can't believe that scum!Sentran would try the same tactic twice.
Everybody: I'm getting the same vibe that Zag is about Dragon Phoenix. I say we watch him a little more closely than we were before. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: 146 |
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| raekuul wrote: |
| Sentran: don't feed Jedo any more ammunition than you already have, he already said that he can't believe that scum!Sentran would try the same tactic twice. |
This is an odd sentence to me. Will you explain the thinking and motivation behind writing it?
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: 147 |
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| raekuul wrote: |
| Dragon Phoenix wrote: |
| Oh, and the knee-jerk vote for the one voting for you is another scumtell. |
This is day one. EVERYTHING is a scumtell until proven otherwise. |
Trying to save your buddy?
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: 148 |
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| raekuul wrote: |
Well, it looks like we're finally entering serious mode.
Sentran: don't feed Jedo any more ammunition than you already have, he already said that he can't believe that scum!Sentran would try the same tactic twice.
Everybody: I'm getting the same vibe that Zag is about Dragon Phoenix. I say we watch him a little more closely than we were before. |
I can't put my finger on why, but this post bugs me a lot.
fos Raekuul
Until something more than gut feel presents itself.
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raekuul
Lives under a bridge & tells stories.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject: 149 |
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Jedo and Dragon and Garou: I don't like watching when people rise to bait. I don't know if any of you were deliberately baiting, but the last time an argument over something like that was allowed to snowball into voting and countervoting, I got lynched.
Jedo in particular: If he's town and you're scum, you're baiting him deliberately. If he's scum and you're town, I look really stupid and/or scummy right now. If you're both scum, I don't know. If you're both town, accidental baiting still leads to lynching once the arguments get out of hand. If we're going to pick apart day one votes, how about we not do it on day one for a change?
Dragon Phoenix in particular: In the sense that I like <person> and lean towards the belief of "innocent until reasonable doubt exists" when playing Mafia, yes. To explain my comment about agreeing with Zag: I think your scumdar's on the fritz. How does one determine scumminess from the tone of a post when the only "tone" to the post is what the reader reads from it in the first place? |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: 150 |
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I don't see how I'm baiting him. What would I be baiting him into? I'm stating that I think he is doing an action which I've seen him do before as scum, but I don't think I'm really asking for a response from him in anyway. Is there another side of "baiting" with which I am unfamiliar?
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Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Garou_Kinfolk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:47 am Post subject: 151 |
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@Raekuul: As I said before. It just struck me as scummy from a gut perspective. It may be nothing, but I wanted it noted got future references.
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: 152 |
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| raekuul wrote: |
Dragon Phoenix in particular: In the sense that I like <person> and lean towards the belief of "innocent until reasonable doubt exists" when playing Mafia, yes. To explain my comment about agreeing with Zag: I think your scumdar's on the fritz. How does one determine scumminess from the tone of a post when the only "tone" to the post is what the reader reads from it in the first place? |
This is just silly to avoid stronger words. Since this is day one, we are going to lynch someone without clear evidence, and certainly not without at least some doubt. At this moment, I am betting both of you (Zag and Raekuul) actually at a >50% chance of being scum based on the posts you two have been making, I like these odds for day one, and I will happily lynch either of you (and the other tomorrow if the first one is indeed scum). Btw, with tone I mean the way an observation is worded.
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Sniklac16
Spaciest of aides
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:08 pm Post subject: 153 |
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VOTE COUNT: 8 TO LYNCH
Zag (2) - Dragon Phoenix, Leonidas
MNOWAX (2) - 3iff, spyrl
Jedo the Jedi (2) - Amb, Sentran
Sentran (2) - esme, Jedo the Jedi
Dragon Phoenix (1) - Zag
Amb (1) - The Great Crep'er
3iff (1) - Garou_Kinfolk
not voting: Raearia, MNOWAX, raekuul. Undercover Monk
please inform me of mistakes
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spyrl
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: 154 |
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As much as I hate it, I have to agree with raekuul (because I also feel that there's just something a bit off from post 145). It is extremely difficult to read 'tone' from text, which is why we really need things like a "sarcasm font."
| Dragon Phoenix, post 128 wrote: |
| You're not scum for your vote. You're scum for the wording and the tone of that post. |
| Dragon Phoenix,post 152 wrote: |
| Btw, with tone I mean the way an observation is worded. |
So what you meant to say is, "You're not scum for your vote. You're scum for the wording and the way your observation is worded." So, you think they're scum for their wording, why not just say one or the other, why the duplication?
_________________
"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here! |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: 155 |
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While things have gotten more interesting of late, I still think we are at risk of stalling. I still like my vote on Jedo.
But i'd say one of these:
Zag (2) - Dragon Phoenix, Leonidas
MNOWAX (2) - 3iff, spyrl
Jedo the Jedi (2) - Amb, Sentran
Sentran (2) - esme, Jedo the Jedi
Needs that magical 3rd vote, followed by 4th pretty soon - or people will just get bored and return back to dice votes. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: 156 |
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I personally think the dichotomy is between raekuul and DP, leaning toward raekuul who has that awful post. I think you can read some tone from people's posts, but I would say it comes from context. To use a concrete example, I think Mackay is able to put a lot of tone into her posts (outside of mafia). Anyway, while DP's answer to the definition of tone seems repetitive, I think repetition adds emphasis, so no problems there. (It was low what DP did to Zag, and I'm still not sure exactly how scummy it is. At any rate, it's no worse than what Garou did last game in baiting people.)
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:00 am Post subject: 157 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| It was low what DP did to Zag, and I'm still not sure exactly how scummy it is. At any rate, it's no worse than what Garou did last game in baiting people. |
And look how successful it was last game -- it nearly got a townie lynched and basically muddied the waters for finding any actual scum.
DP claims that it wasn't just that I agreed to put some pressure on the lurkers, but that it was the tone of how I did it. This seems like crap to me, but that's because I know my agreement was genuine. Did anyone else see anything in it?
I know that the times I have, on day one, played tricksy games to "smoke out the scum," I was actually scum myself. At the time, I thought it would seem a reasonable thing to do and act as a smoke screen. Since Garou basically did the same thing last game but wasn't scum, I'm not quite ready to draw conclusions from it, but Garou had the lynch-immunity in his back pocket as he did it.
I'm still liking my vote. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: 158 |
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That's my point: DP's strategy and actions aren't the most helpful thing, but I don't think they are inherently scummy.
_________________
Paragon Tally: 18 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Raearia
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:21 am Post subject: 159 |
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So I realize staying quiet can get a FOS at me for lurking or trying to lay low. I don't like feeling like an idiot when players begin to reference other games, so I then go read what they are referencing. By the time I am done reading the conversation either switches to something else or has stopped. However this time around other then the Game of Thrones reference I have no idea what games you guys are bringing up. If you would be so kind as to give me the names of the games so I can get a quick read through that would be much appreciated.
That being said until I get a clear picture i am going to continue to not have a vote though I am leaning towards voting MNO since he has not appeared at all since start of game, rather then just have him get replaced...
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Dragon Phoenix
Judge Doom
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| Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: 160 |
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| spyrl wrote: |
As much as I hate it, I have to agree with raekuul (because I also feel that there's just something a bit off from post 145). It is extremely difficult to read 'tone' from text, which is why we really need things like a "sarcasm font."
| Dragon Phoenix, post 128 wrote: |
| You're not scum for your vote. You're scum for the wording and the tone of that post. |
| Dragon Phoenix,post 152 wrote: |
| Btw, with tone I mean the way an observation is worded. |
So what you meant to say is, "You're not scum for your vote. You're scum for the wording and the way your observation is worded." So, you think they're scum for their wording, why not just say one or the other, why the duplication? |
Ooohh.. you caught me. Yes, it is redundant come to think of it.
What is more important though:
- the way Zag formulated his support for my vote is just the way I have seen scum formulate it often in the past.
- the raekuul post is ridiculous (Everything is a scumtell on day one? Give me a break), and comes over as a clumsy defending attempt of scum buddy Zag.
I was not setting a "trap" for Zag or anyone else, but if I see someone post what I consider a scumtell after that post of mine, I am glad to jump on it,
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