Clint Eastwood Mafia Game Over - Town Wins

[Jedo the Jedi]

Great. I'm glad you don't bluff.

Now let's see if it's true.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Amb]

My understanding is that a bandwagon is usually at best to get a claim, and worst case a lynch. There is a double standard there. I think the Freudian slip is far worse. And I think the attitude that a person who attacks him is therefore tied to MNO and both are therefore scum - is the attitude of someone who isn't interested in genuinely finding scum.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Amb]

Which if i haven't understood, then all you have proven is that I am dumb. Be that the case, then thanks a tonne... buddy

I'm more sold on the Freudian slip than anything else. There are far worse lynches on day 1 than that.

[Jedo the Jedi]

And far better. What exactly is unconvincing about MNO's scumminess?
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

[Jedo the Jedi]

So far, all I've heard is a supposed Freudian slip which wouldn't be suspicious on any Day but this one. MNO's situation would be scummy on any Day.

And answering the accusations is not deflecting. That's better than MNO who had to be significantly pressed before he gave any kind of response to the questions leveled against him.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[MNOWAX]

[Sniklac16]

I apologize! When I mod a game I prefer to watch everything unfold, as opposed to getting involved at all. If you guys want me to do a little more I will.
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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

[Zag]

I'd love to see a vote count on every page, but otherwise I think you're doing great.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[MNOWAX]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Jedo, I don't believe the problem is comprehension. I believe it is a misunderstanding. As such, can you please post your Day 1 roleclaim policy so everyone knows what it is and we (town) can determin if you went against it when encouraging others to vote MNOWAX to "call his bluvv" and see if he would claim.
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Most posts made from my phone.

[Jedo the Jedi]

This seems like a pretty good articulation of my position regarding Day 1 claims.

[Sniklac16]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

I think I see where the misunderstanding is, and it's on my end. I had thought your policy was something along the lines of "People shouldn't claim day 1." when it's actually along the lines of "Day 1 claims should be ignored and the lynch go on through." Am I correct in this?

MNOWAX, you actually posted 3 times before the game started. There was a vote for Amb and confirmation in the first one, something about Raearia not trusting you in the second, and then you voted for Jedo in the third.

Jedo: I have taken a look at who voted where and when and have found a total of 5 wagons as defined by you earlier (3 or more votes). The first was Raekuul with 4 (not the 3 you have been saying), this includes his joke vote for himself. The second was Esme with another 4 votes. Zag came next with 3. The final two are MNOWAX with 5 currently and yourself with 4. There is more information within the vote record as well, such as Dragon Phoenix voting for 5 different people and voting TGC twice in a row at the start.
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Most posts made from my phone.

[spyrl]

Jedo, I tend to be one of the most analytical people I know, highly detail oriented and adept at comprehensive reading. In your crusade against MNO, and also Amb/Garou, I have been getting a similar feeling to your battle against LIML in the (ironically enough) previous Secret theme game. This isn't enough to make vote you (not by a good amount) or do more than go "hmmm" and make a note of it.

This is compounded by your repeated "you're not reading my posts" comments. It always strikes a wrong chord with me when someone rails against others demanding that they read (or didn't read) their posts. Just because we came to a different conclusion from reading the same words doesn't mean that we didn't read it.

I'm also finding it odd that in the Heroes vs Villains game you had such a different reaction to an early claim. You rolled your eyes at Zag, but didn't attack him like you have with MNO. That's not to say that I don't find MNO's early claim odd, I do, but I've played enough with MNO to know that when he says he's going to do something we can see in the forum, he does it. However, I see this claim almost as if MNO really doesn't want to play (he said he had intended to take a break) and is just looking for a quick lynch or NK as way out.

Last, as a side note, anytime someone brings up the word semantics, it's been my experience that the one making the most fuss about it is usually the scum.
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"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here!

[Dragon Phoenix]

For now I tend to believe Mnowax, and I have Jedo in the town vibes corner. I would still love to see either Zag or raekuul be the first lynch of the game.
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My photography:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/artrock2006/

[Amb]

We aren't actually getting anywhere, and I am not opposed to bandwagonning and claims. (Jedo may or may not be, his posts are apparently confusing and say the opposite to how they read).

If I had to, by force, choose between Zag and Raekuul - then I'd string up Raekuul. Otherwise this game might turn into a text adventure

[Sentran]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Garou, I will affirm your final assessment of my policy, but there are nuances. I think it's inevitable that people will claim (you can't all be stubbornly stoic like I was in Survivor Mafia), so I don't think they should claim until L-1. (My above quote says L-2 because that's what I've noticed is generally true for everybody else.)

As for the wagons, I can only plead ignorance. I didn't go through looking for the number of votes until I felt we had had so many vote changes that it was unclear where anybody was. I believe I even said something to the effect of wanting a vote count so I could know which wagon I was supposed to be joining. So, thank you for the illuminating information about the voting history. As you may have noticed, I settled on MNO for reasons other than wagoning, something I've also been known to do when a particularly scummy thing appears on Day 1. I will clarify that I said raekuul had three votes plus his own which means four.

spyrl, I know the backlash people have against "not reading my posts" comments, and that's why I tried to specify. I don't believe Amb or Garou was reading my posts to understand what I was saying (comprehension) but only to find what they viewed as inconsistencies (confirmation bias/strawman ammo). I hope you would agree there is a difference, and given Garou's recent confession (and Amb's perpetuation of a falsity), see that what I'm saying is true. Maybe you will maintain that it was a "different understanding," but if that's the case, it's at least a situation where they don't want to understand what I mean. That's antagonistic, and I think it still falls under the criterion I listed above.

Amb, how exactly is it confusing? Have you not played with me long enough to know my Day 1 policies and read my rants against the system? Your "analysis" above is seriously lacking in any attempt actually to interpret what I have said.
1) The comment about "speeding the process along" is a jab at the foolish methods the majority of players employ in their Day 1 strategy. It's in the same vein of what I said in Survivor when you claimed.
2) I get irate when multiple power roles are outed on Day 1 (as the quote clearly says), so how exactly was my own action contributing to "making myself irate" in that sense?
3) You never showed where I was "for and against bandwagons." I am for bandwagons.
4) I said your vote was reasonable from your perspective, when it was just about the Freudian slip. It's interesting that you had to take my quote out of context in order to make me look inconsistent.
5) Yes, so that "the town can dissolve his wagon and start another." That's not my preference, but I'm fatalistic in that that is what the rest of you will do despite mine (and Monk's) historical arguments to the contrary. How well did it serve you guys in Survivor to out all those roles then lynch the cop?

Any other deliberate twisting and misreading of my posts you want me to debunk for you?
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Sentran, the bold is used as emphasis. I'm highlighting the ridiculousness of MNO's threat to claim so early. I know we've had a discussion about tone already, but you can write sarcasm into a post and others can interpret it properly. You are being intentionally obtuse.

Half of you participate in those cryptics, so why don't you utilize your amazing skills of deduction to understand posts here?

"Please, please" is a hint that I'm feigning begging.
"at L-3" is demonstrating the emphasis of my clue.
The claim is just the catalyst. He shouldn't really be claiming at all, so other people should see the scum ploy he is telegraphing way ahead of time. MNO is straight up manipulating how the town will react to his claim. I know what you guys will do (historically) and he does too. Kudos to him for the attempt, but you shouldn't be suckered into it.

Last game, I said exactly what I would do if such-and-such situation was the state of affairs the next day--I'll investigate either Sentran or Zag. If one comes up innocent, I'll lead the lynch on the other. That allowed the scum to play perfectly into that scenario: Sentran didn't have to do anything knowing he would come up innocent. The thing is I changed my tactic because the results seemed too perfect for just such a situation as Sentran being a GF. I will say it again, don't be suckered.

And that's not contradictory even at the literal level because I didn't say I would believe his claim if he made it.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Amb]

This is my problem:

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Jedo the Jedi]

I should also clarify: my example of the cryptics was not to suggest that I'm trying to be intentionally unclear. It was simply to say that those of you who participate in that are obviously intelligent enough to see past literal text to the true meaning...even without voice inflection.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

So I'm on my phone, doing a reread and I had a thought about this post after reading it and that Jedo is now, and has been, saying I gave MNO an out with asking the mod to prod MNO. It's a partial because of my character limit.

[Jedo the Jedi]

[raekuul]

MNOWAX: Why were you so eager to claim this game?

[Amb]

I'm also consistent. Consistently lynch happy. eg. Given the chance to hammer, I always hammer. Probably doesnt gain me friends though.

I want to put this argument away now anyway. It's not going anywhere, and clearly noone (other than Sentran) wants to follow me on it.

[spyrl]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Today is Monday, isn't it? My weekend was thrown off by having today off. I do indeed mean by tomorrow morning, afternoon at most.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Jedo the Jedi]

Actually, I just realized this is Veteran's Day, so I would give until Wednesday for Monk. The whole point was not everybody frequents the board on weekends.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

[3iff]

That was a busy weekend...I've skimmed the posts since Friday and will certainly have to read them again but here's a few thoughts for now.

Garou: Chasing the mod for replacements doesn't look very good, especially on day 1.

Jedo: I find myself tending to agree with what you're saying (I know that will seem scummy to others ). I read your MNO claim line as "I can't believe MNO would even think about claiming at L-3", and yet he did so, almost in defiance of your statement.

MNO: Utterly utterly untrustworthy. He's 'offed' me in many of my games and yet I consistently seem to be gullible enough to trust him (he's brilliant at fooling people) but his ridiculously early claim as well as his belated gamestart (because he forgot?)...I don't buy it.

More thoughts later this morning.

[3iff]

MNO:
Post 172: "Seriously, I didn't even know I was in the game.". Are you expecting anyone to believe this? You're better than that, surely (cue joke about "don't call me Shirley")
Then you FoS the people voting for you before you bother to turn up (and call them scum for good measure)?
Finally you direct people towards lynching Amb?

You told me you had been following H&V mafia before you became involved in that game, so I know you follow games you're not playing in (as do I). So I'd bet that you were following this game too. It wouldn't take much for you to realise that you WERE supposed to be participating!

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