Clint Eastwood Mafia Game Over - Town Wins

[3iff]

That was a long night...

Delighted at getting MNO straight away. I owed him a kill or two for the times he's got me in the past. Right, now to find the next mafia target.

Garou post 320: Interesting views on Sentran. I see what you're getting at. I'll have a closer look.

Sentran post 316: "I looked to see if anyone had voted MNO then unvoted, but I could not find any."
I voted for MNO in the random stage, switched elsewhere and then came back to him and stayed there - and I was essentially the first to have a solid vote on him. I'm not claiming I 'got' him but I did bring his activities out in the open.

Some of you lurkers...can you post?

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Sentran]

I feel like Garou's wall of text and vote for me was an attempt to justify an OMGUS vote. Still, I'm looking through the thread to see if anything else stands out. With 2 kills, it's a good bet that one was Mafia and one was not. I'm wondering if the other kill was due to SK or Vig, and why the target was Amb/Zag. Has anyone else noticed anything that would make either of them appear particularly town or scum? So far, the closest I've found is that Amb's frequent flipping made him appear more scum than town. That would lean towards a Vig kill there. Still, they're both good players, so I could see reasons for Mafia to want to get rid of either of them early.

3iff, I was only counting votes from when the MNO wagon appeared serious. I was not looking for RVS unvotes of MNO. Thank you for the info anyway.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Thanks Jedo for clarifying that. It makes sense now. If you look at just the first couple of lines your assessment would be pretty decent, but the following line says I'll be looking at ALL of his interactions. I thought most people would assume from that that the previous lines would be the group of players that I'd look closest at among all of MNOWAXs interactions. My mistake for not being clearer there.
The rest of your post reads that all I'm doing is placing an OMGUS vote and justifying it because it goes against your gut.
When I think about it, I honestly can't remember the last time Jedo made a gut vote. Is there anything else to tour vote?

Sentran, I expected more of a rebuttal then what your post says. If I had to summarize it, it would be "The wall post is OMGUS justification. OH LOOK! A DISTRACTION FROM IT!" I really did expect to wake up this morning to find something more then a brush off.
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[Sentran]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

There's more I'd like to add, but I hit my character limit and my break ended.

To Be Continued...
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[Raearia]

After reading through and rereading posts:

I don't like being called a lurker in a game I feel I have been participating in, but I understand needing to draw a line on what is and what isn't.

I feel like I have nothing to add to the current conversation between Sentran and Garou as of yet.

So I don't want to post for postings sake about it.

What I am worried about is loosing two power roles for us townies in both Zag and Amb and I don't want to be in the habit of making the mistake of us lynching a townie. While I know it is a higher chance to lynch a townie I really want to be careful in trusting my gut as well as what I am interpreting in this thread to make that chance less likely.
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10289 is the end!

[spyrl]

Well, that really throws a monkey wrench into things. I had several ideas sketched out, but they're not applicable now. Re: the Jedo, Garou, Sentran conversation. I think Garou brings up a good point. Sentran, you were going at Jedo tooth and nail yesterday believing him scum, yet today it seems that you're just merrily going along with his findings. I find that even more suspicious considering Jedo's main reason for voting for Garou is this:

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Do you have a different reservation about Garou? What about him suggests he is town? Those views are just currently what I see. Now, I will admit there are a lot of people not putting up reads for me to analyze, so this could just be town v. town with the scum sitting back. I think Amb suggested something of the sort yesterday (though I don't think it was about Garou and myself).
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

The Amb data I had posted earlier today (day 2).

Zag Data:
Votes made by Zag:
Amb
Esme
D.P.

Votes made against Zag:
Spyrl
U.Monk
D.P.
Amb
Leo

Zags interactions:
Positive interactions by Zag:
G.K. x2
Amb x3
Jedo x5
MNO x1

Negative interactions by Zag:
D.P. x5
U. Monk x1
Jedo x3
Esme x1
Amb x2
MNO x4
3iff x1

Negative actions against Zag by others:
Esme x1
Leo x1
Raekuul x1
U. Monk x3
Spyrl x1
Sentran x1
D.P. x5
Amb x2
Jedo x2

Positive actions to Zag:
Raekuul x1
U.Monk x1
Raearia x1
3iff x1
Spyrl x1
MNOWAX x1
Sentran x1
Jedo x2

I still need to do the interaction chart for me, so the above is NOT complete.
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[Jedo the Jedi]

That's referring to MNO's vote for me when he finally showed up, not you. Do you care to try again?

I suppose that information about Zag is supposed to help us think about who might have killed him: mafia, SK, or vig? I'm not really sure how to go about discerning something like that.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Sentran]

[raekuul]

I'm assuming that both Zag and Amb were town-aligned?

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[3iff]

Sentran: I guessed you were referring to serious votes on MNO but I thought I should include my switch, even if it was RVS, just so that no-one could bring up that incident against me in the future. You know what mafia players can be like...

I would guess that Zag and Amb were offed because they're such strong, clever players. It is disturbing that there's another killer out there but 15 players makes it likely that there would be a vig or sk lurking in the shadows.

I, too, am guessing that the tracker was town but the mod is fairly light on supplying info we should expect to have.

With Jedo, Garou and Sentran providing most of the posts, I can't believe that all of them are mafia (but it wouldn't surprise me if one of them is scum), so I think I shall be choosing another lurker for my vote...I just need to decide who that should be.

[Garou_Kinfolk]

I like my Sentran vote, but I am willing to move it to lurkers for the purpose of putting pressure on them. I would ask the mod to prod them, but the last time I did I got called a scum buddy.

Jedo, can you tell me where I "helped" MNOWAX other then the prod? It's a subject you keep bringing up without referencing a post.
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[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

Sentran, here is my interaction chart that I said I'd post.

Day 1
Positive interactions by G.K.:
Spyrl (during the rvs phase)

Negative interactions by G.K.:
Leo x1
3iff x3
Raekuul x2
MNOWAX x3
Jedo x7
D.P. x1

Positive interactions by others with G.K.:
Zag x2
Jedo x1

Negative interactions by others with G.K.:
Raekuul x1
3iff x4
D.P. x1
Jedo x8

Votes by G.K.:
Leo
3iff
Jedo

Votes for G.K.:
None

Day 2
Positive interactions by G.K.:
Jedo x1
Sentran x1
3iff x1

Negative interactions by G.K.:
Sentran x4
Jedo x2

Positive interactions by others to G.K.:
3iff x1
Spyrl x1

Negative interactions by others to G.K.:
Sentran x3
Jedo x6

Votes by G.K.:
Sentran

Votes for G.K.:
Jedo
Sentran

Yes, I have a similar chart for all of the players here. I am willing to share them with others, just ask.
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[Garou_Kinfolk]

I will reply to Jedos post later when I have the time and no character limit to deal with.
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[Raearia]

@ Garou I may have missed it but did you have a post explaining your interaction charts. I.E. what you used to determine what is positive and what is negative interactions?

I am tempted to side with Amb/Jedo's (can't remember who said it specifically but there was a reference in post 330.) possibility of this being a town v town situation, however I feel like it could also easily be two scum pulling of a gambit to deflect attention from one or the other. I too feel that there is at least 2-3 more scum involved based on the games size.

People I am looking at:

Garou
Jedo
Sentran
DP
Esme

So the one thing I want to ask Jedo is did your dream of lynching Amb come true by coincidence or should we be looking at you and your "dream" a little closer? Seeing as how Amb is dead and all. (post 161)

Dp is another player I am looking over through his posts. They have not posted anything of real substance in a while but I feel like DP has been able to skate unnoticed for a few suspicious actions.

[Sentran]

[Jedo the Jedi]

Raearia, I had meant to clarify that while you fit in the lurker categories, your content has been significant. I consider you to be a good, participating member of the town.

I can't really respond to your comment about my dream. That was just straight-up what happened.

Now, I do think Raearia's post relates well with something Sentran (?) said earlier: if you are vocal, you are suspected. Four of the five on her list are the most vocal players in the game. That is a problem which I think is worth changing. We can't let ourselves be swayed like that. I think it could be attributed to a sort of confirmation bias in which we are all looking for scum, but the only place we can really look is the people who are posting. Therefore, that is where scum will be "found."

I'll take a step back and unvote. I do not normally like looking at lurkers, but there are like five of us playing right now. That's less than half. To be certain, Garou is my pick for the lynch today, and I intend to come back to him once we've roused the lurkers. I don't see him easily moving from my top scum read.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[Raearia]

@Jedo I have a post I am working on and a point I was going to make in it was that unfortunately the only people I can look at are those posting. Those who are not posting I can't look at because if they just vote without giving anything considerable to the conversation its hard to get a read on them, the same goes for raekuuls one liner posts so far. It is really hard to get a read on him when he asks simple singular things and nothing else.

Anyways just wanted to throw out there that I have a wall of text coming and I agree with what you said Jedo, The people on my list are really the only people I have anything to judge.
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10289 is the end!

[Jedo the Jedi]

I'm sorry if you thought that was a critique of you. That was pointed at all of us. I currently suspect Garou, and I think the stuff against Sentran had some good points. As you said though, there is nothing to analyze of the people sitting in the shadows, and scum can easily hide there. This is the worst case of lurking I have ever seen in a game.

I'll go ahead with vote esme.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[3iff]

Jedo: I have to agree with you when you say there are 5 of us playing and the rest are watching the game at best (or maybe they've forgotten that they are playing...a la MNO).

Of the absent players, I too thought of esme for my vote. Leo, DP are other candidates while UM may have real life problems? Currently I'm happy to vote for any of these.

I'm not forgetting about Raekuul, spyrl or jadesmar.

So, Vote: esme
It's mainly a lurker vote. Start playing or die. The same applies to the others who are not posting. The danger is that if the vocal 5 are all town then they're likely to hound each other to lynches. I would be surprised if we were all town but I have no strong feelings as yet on the scumminess of any of the vocal ones.

Garou: Any conclusions from your data trawl?

[Dragon Phoenix]

Apologies for my absence, couple of real life issues. Will look into the game latest tomorrow.
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[raekuul]

Jedo and 3iff: Why esme in particular?

[Jedo the Jedi]

raekuul, I'm not answering any of your questions until you post content, such as your own views on the matter of yesterday's events and the arguments made today. If you noticed something else of note, please share that.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting.

[3iff]

No particular reason, but just 6 posts, the last on the 13th Nov and virtually no content whatsoever in any of those 6 posts.

If she (or he?) is playing then posting will help us.

Funny how an implied threat to lurkers brings some quick responses...if esme is town then saying nothing at all will not help the town. The same applies to many others.

[spyrl]

[3iff]

Actually spyrl, you're a reasonably regular poster...I wasn't really allowing for the week-long night that we've just had.

[spyrl]

I'm still confused by the whole "forgetting" part. What did you mean by that? What aren't you forgetting?
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"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here!

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Sentran]

spyrl: Why would I not mention that I'm not happy that I am voting the same as Jedo? While I do my best to help the town with my observations and inclinations, I also realize that if I give too much information, and I'm onto the scum, I'll likely be killed early in the game. As for Jedo, I still suspect him strongly. I also find it suspect that he guessed the theme so quickly after day began, almost as if he had a few extra clues (i.e. roles) from which to draw information. That's all a moot point, since he has immunity.

Garou: Are you saying that if I remember to complement people on their play on every post, I won't appear scummy to you? Words fail me when trying to explain why I have a problem with this logic.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Garou_Kinfolk]

[Sentran]