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Lifeinmomland
Soccer, dance, doctor's appt. this AM.
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:34 pm Post subject: 161 |
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I was talking to my daughter today about acting from your own heart. I had many sarcastic things to say of what I view as people following like lemming off the cliff of their own laziness but after all is said and done if you feel that Jades progression from:
It's the best tell likely to be seen on day 1( which really is not saying much, it is day 1 after all)
to:
She is scum because she has not said she is town
Then by all means continue on over this cliff.
IMHO that is quite a jump and I look at the whole thing with a dim view because to me anyone outright stating they are town is a folly. It proves nothing as it can not be verified one way or another until either a cop lists reads or the person is dead. It is actions I try to read. I have said many times I start at guilty until proven innocent and I am going to have to fall back on that now.
I know people have said Jades is to aggressive to be scum but I feel his is being harmful to town over all. His aggressive dedication to my supposed scum tell worries me. If I ask myself who could be so dedicated, with such conviction, without any of the normal hesitation of a townie to lynch wrongly, I come to the thought that perhaps there is a third party, perhaps neutral, or with their own win condition. Either way I am not seeing a pro town behavior here. He has stuck to his opinion and looked no further. A supremely unhelpful to town behavior in my view.
VOTE JADESMAR
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Who is John Gult? |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:04 am Post subject: 162 |
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| Lifeinmomland wrote: |
| It proves nothing as it can not be verified one way or another until either a cop lists reads or the person is dead... If I ask myself who could be so dedicated, with such conviction, without any of the normal hesitation of a townie to lynch wrongly, I come to the thought that perhaps there is a third party, perhaps neutral, or with their own win condition. Either way I am not seeing a pro town behavior here. He has stuck to his opinion and looked no further. A supremely unhelpful to town behavior in my view. |
I'm just going to interject that it is a distinct possibility a cop has listed their read and pursued it with focus. I don't know that, and have based my vote on my own reasons, but it is a possibility, one which you seem to overlook.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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itisally
Master of Disguise
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:19 am Post subject: 163 |
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I recall reading the last game after spryl had died and there was so much speculation as to wht may have been a cop dropping hints. Most of it was so subtile that I missed it or it was misunderstood. I don't want investigators to give themselves away; I understand the need for subterfuge. But, my goodness, if the mafia can't figure it out niether can the town.
BTW: did a quick ISO on Jades and didn't see anything that was scummy. Even an poorly played townie is better than a mafia member in the game. I think he is town and should move him up my list.
With so many people trying something new this game I am having a difficult time getting reads on people.
On account of a more calculated and cautious play style and the building wagon (not with any amount of conviction)
Vote: LIML
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong. |
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spyrl
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: 164 |
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Current Vote Count:
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Player (# of votes on them): {Who’s voting for them}
jadesmar (2): MNOWAX, Lifeinmomland
Lifeinmomland (4): jadesmar, Jedo the Jedi, Zag, itisally
Durryn (1): Sentran
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not voting (5): Perpentach, Raearia, Durryn,
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"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head." Terry Pratchett, Maskerade
Discworld Mafia is here! |
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:43 am Post subject: 165 |
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I'm sorry I don't see why LIML is being hung. I know I'm not going to go change my vote ( jadesmar is so obvscum) but even if i would, i don't think LIML is a good lynch this day. Normally I'm a blood thirsty sort ( especially D1) but I dunno, call it gut, I just don't the scum there.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX |
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Durryn
Doghouse Dweller
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: 166 |
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@Sentran: I am very carefully avoiding one simple statement as an experiment. I wanna see how long I can go before I am forced into it (although just saying this will most likely hasten its' arrival). You know my severe handicap in playing this game and may realize the statement I am avoiding. I will give a hint and let you know that, from my perspective, it glories in the Light.
@Everyone else: I still have no read stronger than my minimal feel on Jadesmar. I ALWAYS come into a game expecting/suspecting Zag, MNO, and Jedo of nefarious inclination, yet they have shown none of, or at least a minimum of, the usual twisting of words that I have come to expect from them as scum. I suppose I could upgrade my FoS to a full vote, but I am just not "feeling" it and I certainly don't see the LIML tells some of you appear to.
Time to slink back into the Doghouse  We need a Gurahl to run about Sensing Wyrm...... okay shamble about <snicker>.
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: 167 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I'm just going to interject that it is a distinct possibility a cop has listed their read and pursued it with focus. |
I'm going to dub you "Chaz II." Seriously, did you really need to point it out? Assuming you and I were correct, and jadesmar was a cop, then there really was no need to justify your actions (or his) to LIML. She's scum anyway! We don't care what she thinks!
| itisally wrote: |
| But, my goodness, if the mafia can't figure it out niether can the town. |
Or, one can make it so subtle that only, say, 15% of the people figure it out. Then you hope that the one or two people who catch on are townies and that this is enough to sway the vote. With more town players that scum (as we must have, of course) it is more likely that you'll get this success. In any case, as long as the information is out there, then when the cop is killed, it is still there for the remaining town to make use of. But if you announce the cop, like, say, Jedo did, then he only gets one or two investigations before he gets whacked or perpetually role-blocked.
I really don't know what you thought you were trying to accomplish by saying that, Jedo. Even if you didn't really think so, and you were voting LIML for some other reason, what is the point of answering her question about why jadesmar had such conviction? Either she's scum, in which case you're obviously making a mistake pointing it out, or she's town, in which case you're obviously making a mistake in pointing it out. Ergo, you're obviously making a mistake in pointing it out.
Unless you're scum too. Hmmm. That could be the reason. It's even more interesting a comment if you are scum and she isn't (which would imply that jadesmar is not a cop).
OK. I'll switch back if jadesmar says that it really is a cop read, which I had assumed, but for now, I'm going to believe that a town Jedo would never have made such a mistake, since I see absolutely no reason for him to have said it. A scum Jedo, on the other hand ...
unvote LIML, vote Jedo |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:50 pm Post subject: 168 |
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Ugh. I wish I could edit.
"more town players that scum" was supposed to be "more town players THAN scum" |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: 169 |
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Zag, I'll skip the ad hominem and let you fill it in for yourself.
1) I never said jadesmar is a cop. I was pointing out the flaw in Mom's logic, suggesting that perhaps she skipped that possibility to bolster her own position that only scum can be confident, thereby deflating the "case" against her. Admittedly, I am voting the same as jadesmar which suggests I think he might be a cop (or a townie with information), but I could easily be backing the wrong horse.
2) How did that post stoke your ire and not this one?
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I would like to remind everybody that this is not an information-less Day 1 as most other games are. We have had a Night 1, so some people do have information. Who is to say that people who have made votes are not doing so on the basis of that information? |
It seems remarkably inconsistent of you.
3) Your logic is flawed in those last two paragraphs. I'll let you find where.
4) I think everybody has a power of some sort, and I am struck by jadesmar's conviction. However, he was rather brazen in the last game, so I don't believe this is necessarily motivated by information. I noticed his conviction, decided he was likely town, got my own gut sense of Mom's scumminess, and felt jadesmar would not be a bad person to go along with.
FOS: Zag I think this episode will make a Mom lynch even more fruitful.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:09 pm Post subject: 170 |
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jadesmar should not reveal anything about his role. If people are persuaded by what Zag said, I would rather be lynched than have roles be outed.
Who is role fishing now?
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Lifeinmomland
Soccer, dance, doctor's appt. this AM.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:23 pm Post subject: 171 |
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Or Jedo you are the one overlooking the obvious. I know what my role is so I know, even if I theorized he might be a cop, what he would know about me. 
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Who is John Gult? |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:57 pm Post subject: 172 |
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1) No, you only said, "Maybe that person about whom you're complaining is pushing with such conviction is a cop." That is, you didn't actually name him by name, only by inference that my dog could follow.
2) That one also ticked me off, but I was hoping not to draw attention to it. I even considered leaving this latest gaff alone, hoping that people weren't paying attention, until itisally mentioned it.
3) Cute. Maybe you've bought yourself enough time to think of some reason.
4) Uh huh. Keep singing that song. |
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Raearia
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:42 am Post subject: 173 |
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Man whenever Sentran, Jedo, or Zag get into debates about differing views I always find myself caught up with some popcorn and then forget I am playing haha.
As for LiML, I really don't see it. I already said earlier that I don't feel like I have much to go on for a vote for anyone, but I feel that I am going to need to vote here soon. I am going to mull it over for a few hours.
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10289 is the end! |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:59 am Post subject: 174 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I think everybody has a power of some sort, and I am struck by jadesmar's conviction. |
In a game based on supernatural creatures, it's not that far of a stretch. I can agree with this point. I hadn't really thought about it before Jedo pointed it out. As for whether or not someone got a cop read on night 0, I have no solid read on that. Considering how many people have claimed with absolute certainty that another player is scum on day 1 (and been wrong), I'm going to stick to my own instincts rather than the "knowledge" of other players.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:28 am Post subject: 175 |
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| Raearia wrote: |
Man whenever Sentran, Jedo, or Zag get into debates about differing views I always find myself caught up with some popcorn and then forget I am playing haha.
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This. I love it when they get going. I would LOVE to see them all being on the same scum team when this happens.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX |
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Durryn
Doghouse Dweller
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:15 am Post subject: 176 |
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I believe it would be very interesting to see them together in a live game.
_________________
If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:00 pm Post subject: 177 |
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| MNOWAX wrote: |
| This. I love it when they get going. I would LOVE to see them all being on the same scum team when this happens. |
It's curious that you know we aren't. I mean, I know it, because I know I'm not scum, but how do YOU know? Could it be that you know who all the scum are?
I'm feeling like a yo-yo, finding myself suspecting all the people I had thought townish. But I have to return to my earlier read of Jedo. I am still totally ticked off at him,** but I'm going to try to stick to logic for my vote.
unvote Jedo, vote LIML
** Many of you weren't here, but many games ago, I was a cop and Chaz outed me almost exactly the way Jedo outed jadesmar. It was my first time playing a power role (following several games as vanilla townie), and I was really looking forward to it. He did it just to show off that he had read the fairly slight breadcrumb that I had left, which, it turned out afterwards, no one else had picked up on. I was incensed -- much more upset than makes sense for a stupid game. This gave me echoes of the same feeling, and I still don't understand what could have been going through Jedo's head to have said anything like that, but I guess it isn't really a scum tell, either. I mostly just wanted it to be. |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:34 pm Post subject: 178 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| I even considered leaving this latest gaff alone, hoping that people weren't paying attention, until itisally mentioned it. |
I don't read ally's post as suggesting she thought jadesmar is the cop or that I was referring to jadesmar. I still maintain that I wasn't talking about anybody specific, just pointing out that Mom left out that possibility.
| Quote: |
| 3) Cute. Maybe you've bought yourself enough time to think of some reason. |
Hardly. I'm trying to be less verbose, so I figured an intelligent person like yourself could see your misstep without needing my help. You've since (seemingly) abandoned the idea that I am scum for my post, so I don't see now why I need to defend against the accusation.
How is it that you others can come in here to comment on the disagreement between Zag and myself without adding anything to the game? At this point, I think it's time you make a decision between Mom or jadesmar, or you should present a case for why a different person is better.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: 179 |
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So many thoughts, none of which I am sure I should share. Doing so may create another argument similar to the current feelings between Zag and Jedo. I did notice jades' potential breadcrumbing, then Jedo's breadcrumbing of jades' supposed breadcrumbing. I also remember the game to which Zag is referring; I think that was my first game of Mafia ever.
So now this begs the question: when should we reveal what we believe we see in others, and when should we play our cards closer to the chest? I know that I, like many, have the habit of revealing more when people turn their sights on us to try to avoid being lynched. This is not a town or scum trait. If town, they are both trying to avoid the lynch and giving their info to the town so that said info can become helpful post-mortem. If scum, this is to buy time. If they are still lynched, was the info false to try to lead the town down the wrong path, or truthful since the town would not believe what they wrote and still be led down the wrong path?
@Durryn: I noticed already. It's why I voted for you, but I didn't want to spell it out for anyone who may have missed it.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Raearia
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: 180 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| How is it that you others can come in here to comment on the disagreement between Zag and myself without adding anything to the game? At this point, I think it's time you make a decision between Mom or jadesmar, or you should present a case for why a different person is better. |
If I don't feel like I have anything to add to an argument between other players I won't. My initial reaction to your post was much the same as Zag's. You may not have mentioned Jades but it was pretty darn hard not to see who you were talking about considering the thread so far. I felt that even suggesting Jades was the cop or of a similar role was unhelpful to the town and may actually cause some harm.
I don't see Jades actions as a cop, I am seeing him play much like he did in the last game: aggressive and obnoxious. I see LiML's dismissal of the accusations by Jades as more townish, because really in my mind a scum would protest a lot.
Since I am not confident in placing my vote on either Jades or LiML, which I find silly that we are sticking to these two as the only options, I am going to:
Vote: Durryn.
I have a hard time separating my feelings from knowing some of the players in real life fairly well and being objective about these text based game. That being said I am not sure if I am picking up the same thing Sentran did or that Durryn alluded to but I do have a curiosity about his experiment he mentioned.
Now time to get ready for class!
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10289 is the end! |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: 181 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Zag wrote: |
| I even considered leaving this latest gaff alone, hoping that people weren't paying attention, until itisally mentioned it. |
I don't read ally's post as suggesting she thought jadesmar is the cop or that I was referring to jadesmar. I still maintain that I wasn't talking about anybody specific, just pointing out that Mom left out that possibility. |
Please don't insult our intelligence. She was asking about why 'anyone' would be dogging her with such dedication and you answered that maybe that person is a cop. There was only one person so dogging her, so there was only one person to whom you could have been referring. This is just about how oblique Chaz was when he outed me, which is to say not at all.
Are you really trying to DEFEND your action?!? I'd take an apology, but a defense is just ticking me off all over.
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Quote: |
| 3) Cute. Maybe you've bought yourself enough time to think of some reason. |
Hardly. I'm trying to be less verbose, so I figured an intelligent person like yourself could see your misstep without needing my help. You've since (seemingly) abandoned the idea that I am scum for my post, so I don't see now why I need to defend against the accusation. |
I haven't, exactly. I've gotten over being angry, and I've decided to follow the recommendation of the player I think is a cop. I'm still wishing that I were the only one who thought so, or maybe that you and I were the only ones. We had enough to lynch her without any more support, and it didn't paint a big, glowing target on our cop. |
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itisally
Master of Disguise
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:15 pm Post subject: 182 |
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I keep rereading Durryn and don't see anything special. Subtly isn't his forte' as you can see in other games. This really isn't a wagon that I can get on.
To post without significant content is to say that you are reading and don't have any new thoughts you feel merit sharing, happens all the time.
I think the likelihood of Zag, Sentran and Jedo being a scum team in this game is unlikely because in a game this size I would expect fewer scum. I think someone else mentioned this earlier.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong. |
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: 183 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| MNOWAX wrote: |
| This. I love it when they get going. I would LOVE to see them all being on the same scum team when this happens. |
It's curious that you know we aren't. I mean, I know it, because I know I'm not scum, but how do YOU know? Could it be that you know who all the scum are?
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because I'm that damn good at this game. More importantly, I know you wouldn't pull another gambit this early after the last few have failed. Granted most of them involved me, but still.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX |
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Perpentach
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:01 am Post subject: 184 |
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Going on instinct, I'm gonna,
Vote: Sentran
Like I said before, I really feel suspicious about Sentran's fishing, more so than jades' aggression, or Jedo's cop hunting. |
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jadesmar
Bad Puppy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:05 am Post subject: 185 |
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| I have no out-of-thread information on the alignment of Liml. |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:34 am Post subject: 186 |
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| jadesmar wrote: |
| I have no out-of-thread information on the alignment of Liml. |
Fine. I'm glad, I guess. I'll even forgive you if you're not telling the truth. I don't know if this means that Jedo is scum or not, so I might as well go back to my first read. I do notice that he's stopped vote jumping, since I mentioned it. I don't necessarily think that him stopping is a scum trait, but it isn't a townie one, either. Of course, now I could probably be accused of vote jumping, but that's different. (It always is, when it's yourself.)
unvote LIML. Vote Sentran |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:18 am Post subject: 187 |
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Brilliant. Kill me off, act (or fake) all surprised when I flip town, then HOPEFULLY you'll look at some of my posts and points as more pro-town than anti-town. In the meantime, I have not seen enough to move my current vote, but let's look at facts.
My voting record this game is jadesmar, Zag, jadesmar, Durryn (where I still hold my vote).
Zag voted Jedo, Sentran, LIML, Jedo, LIML, Sentran and accuses me of jumping around in my vote. Just verifiable food for thought.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: 188 |
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| Lifeinmomland wrote: |
| It proves nothing as it can not be verified one way or another until either a cop lists reads or the person is dead... If I ask myself who could be so dedicated, with such conviction, without any of the normal hesitation of a townie to lynch wrongly, I come to the thought that perhaps there is a third party, perhaps neutral, or with their own win condition. |
This is all impersonal third person language. This is what I was responding to. I listed another possibility that I felt she left out, and that did not inherently mean jadesmar.
I'll spell out the illogical argument Zag wants to keep ambiguous. Either I'm town who (apparently) made a dumb mistake (I didn't), or I'm scum who unnecessarily pointed out for (whom exactly?) the cop. A scum doesn't have to out the cop because they can just kill them the next night. In fact, it is more stupid for the scum to out the cop because then the doc can protect the cop. Zag has no grounds for suspecting me as long as he maintains that I "outed" jadesmar.
I also want to draw attention to Zag's vote history. Mom was drawing closest to being the lynch, but Zag has twice jumped from her for flimsy reasons. I say we lynch Mom or Zag. I'm open to either. (I haven't quite decided if the association goes both ways, otherwise I would suggest one over the other.)
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:12 pm Post subject: 189 |
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Jedo, I have also noticed the noncommittal language from LIML, but she is not the only one using it this game. As I said, I was in the game where Chaz outed the cop (who jades is apparently not), and Chaz flipped town when all was done. It gave me a reason to think you are more likely town. I believe that you're a strong enough player that IF you had read jades as a cop, and you were scum, you would have publicly supported his idea of a lynch then killed him off at night without tipping your hand. Weighing Zag versus LIML, I'd be more likely to go after Zag, but only if we get a few more votes going his way. So far, every time I vote someone, it seems an indicator that nobody else will consider them as suspect until after I move my vote.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:18 pm Post subject: 190 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| Lifeinmomland wrote: |
| It proves nothing as it can not be verified one way or another until either a cop lists reads or the person is dead... If I ask myself who could be so dedicated, with such conviction, without any of the normal hesitation of a townie to lynch wrongly, I come to the thought that perhaps there is a third party, perhaps neutral, or with their own win condition. |
This is all impersonal third person language. This is what I was responding to. I listed another possibility that I felt she left out, and that did not inherently mean jadesmar. |
And I'll say it again. Please don't assume we're idiots. There wasn't anyone else that she could have meant, so there wasn't anyone else that you could have meant.
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I'll spell out the illogical argument Zag wants to keep ambiguous. Either I'm town who (apparently) made a dumb mistake (I didn't), or I'm scum who unnecessarily pointed out for (whom exactly?) the cop. A scum doesn't have to out the cop because they can just kill them the next night. In fact, it is more stupid for the scum to out the cop because then the doc can protect the cop. Zag has no grounds for suspecting me as long as he maintains that I "outed" jadesmar. |
A very nice argument. Let's bring it all the way to its conclusion.
1. I do agree that, assuming jadesmar really were a cop, then outing him makes no sense for either townie or scum. (Which isn't to say that it hasn't been done, but I will concede that you almost certainly aren't as stupid as Chaz was in the game he outed me.)
2. If you were town, there's no way you'd know for sure that jadesmar wasn't a cop. You would have kept your mouth shut about it, since you obviously considered that it might be true.
3. The only way your determined hinting makes sense is if you know jadesmar couldn't be a cop.
4. The only way you could know that is if you're scum. (I suppose that there are some fringe reasons, like you and he are masons together, but that's all I can think of.)
Tell me why you thought that was a good idea even to talk about it. If you actually were a townie, you'd be too worried that you are right, and you would know not to say anything.
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I also want to draw attention to Zag's vote history. Mom was drawing closest to being the lynch, but Zag has twice jumped from her for flimsy reasons. I say we lynch Mom or Zag. I'm open to either. (I haven't quite decided if the association goes both ways, otherwise I would suggest one over the other.) |
Seriously? Flimsy reasons? Maybe the first time, and that was only because I was ticked off and I reversed it as soon as I cooled down. That didn't represent finding her to be any less scummy, only that you rose above her in my angry eyes. The second time I unvoted her was for a very good reason, since my belief that jadesmar was a cop was the only reason I voted for her in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, she's dropped back into the cluster of people I have no opinion about (because j's reason for voting her is too weak even to register, IMHO).
So my vote fell back to the person I considered most scummy, and Sentran hasn't moved on that list since he was doing his sideways role-fishing early in the game. But you, Jedo, are rising quickly. I'm going to ponder some more before actually switching to voting for you, mostly because I have (as I and Sentran both pointed out) moved my vote around a bit too much. I've felt I had a good reason each time, but it's still too much.
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Sentran, let me see if I have this straight. Your reason for suspecting me is that you made a question that certainly seems, at least to someone who doesn't know the theme well, to be role-sniffing; and I called you on it. Obviously that makes me scum. Of course, only a scum would complain about someone role-sniffing. They would never just sit back and hope that it actually works to get some information. Oh no. (Did anyone need a sarcasm indicator there, or did you get it?)
Seriously, if you want to accuse me, do it for the vote switching. At least that's a real reason. Your reason is just stupid. Of course, if I were actually scum, I don't quite see why I would have jumped off the LIML bandwagon either time. Unless, I guess, if she is scum, in which case I don't quite see why I would have gotten on it in the first place.
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Sigh. Post-preview edit. I really do know that I shouldn't post when I'm in a bad mood. Certainly when I'm scum I never do. I know that I should cancel out of this now, but even after counting to 10 I think that there are good points there. Someone other than Jedo please jump in and tell us which one of us is smoking something. |
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Durryn
Doghouse Dweller
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:37 am Post subject: 191 |
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You guys make my head hurt.
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:49 am Post subject: 192 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| Sentran, let me see if I have this straight. Your reason for suspecting me is that you made a question that certainly seems, at least to someone who doesn't know the theme well, to be role-sniffing; and I called you on it. Obviously that makes me scum. |
| Sentran wrote: |
| Zag voted Jedo, Sentran, LIML, Jedo, LIML, Sentran and accuses me of jumping around in my vote. Just verifiable food for thought. |
I'm pretty sure that I was clear on why I suspect you. If not, see above. You are doing nothing to improve your position in my eyes, or likely anyone else's.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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Jedo the Jedi
Paragon in Training
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: 193 |
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| Quote: |
2. If you were town, there's no way you'd know for sure that jadesmar wasn't a cop. You would have kept your mouth shut about it, since you obviously considered that it might be true.
3. The only way your determined hinting makes sense is if you know jadesmar couldn't be a cop.
4. The only way you could know that is if you're scum. (I suppose that there are some fringe reasons, like you and he are masons together, but that's all I can think of.)
Tell me why you thought that was a good idea even to talk about it. If you actually were a townie, you'd be too worried that you are right, and you would know not to say anything. |
The problem with your line of reasoning is that you make too any assumptions. This is not an unbiased argument from your side.
I skipped the first because there's nothing to say about it.
2. A) As town, I could have a power that lets me discover people's roles, so I could know more about jadesmar than you credit. (Maybe you're just eliminating the smallest probabilities, but I think that's to your detriment here.)
B) I am town (<- this is true), and I wasn't giving up jadesmar. Instead, I was countering Mom's comment that nobody could be sure about anybody else. You can disagree about this all you want, but I will maintain it even after my death. I'll even explain why at the end game.
3. I'm mostly convinced this is a non sequitur. The only way it makes sense is if you are saying I would only do that because I know the cop is someone else. That leads back to the question of how I could know.
4. How the hell does being scum let me know who the cop is?
I'll spell it out for you: the only way I could know whether jadesmar isn't the cop is if I have role related information consisting of a) being a mason partner with him, b) having a power that gives me that information, or c) I'm the cop. If none of these are true, and it makes even less sense for a scum to 1) out the cop or 2) know who the cop is, then what does that leave? Oh wait, that I wasn't saying jadesmar is the cop.
The problem with both you and Mom is that you have this dualistic mentality. I have news for you, this is a different type of Day 1 because more than the scum have information. Mom has overlooked that, you have overlooked that, and I think that's telling. Mom wanted people to believe the only reason jadesmar could be sure is because jadesmar is scum. Hardly. Muck-raking like that seems like a scum trait to me.
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Paragon Tally: 19 mafia, 3 SKs (1 twice), 1 cultist, numerous chat scum...and counting. |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:04 pm Post subject: 194 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| 2. A) As town, I could have a power that lets me discover people's roles, so I could know more about jadesmar than you credit. (Maybe you're just eliminating the smallest probabilities, but I think that's to your detriment here.) |
No, you're right that I didn't really think of several other reasons. Sorry.
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I was countering Mom's comment that nobody could be sure about anybody else. |
This is the one that really has me stuck. If you were a townie who thought LIML was scum, why would you want to explain anything to her? Either you'd ask her questions, hoping to see her trip herself up, or you'd just let her stew. (Hint: I'm doing one of those, now, to someone I suspect is scum.) Why try to help the scum? |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: 195 |
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| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I have news for you, this is a different type of Day 1 because more than the scum have information. |
I will openly disagree with this absolute. The scum MAY have information, depending on who they targeted and what (if any) their other powers are. They may be just as much in the dark as the rest of us, except that they know who the other scum are. In that respect, this day 1 is no different than any other. Going to an immediate absolute like this moves you up on my scumdar slightly, but not very much.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:43 am Post subject: 196 |
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| Sentran wrote: |
| Jedo the Jedi wrote: |
| I have news for you, this is a different type of Day 1 because more than the scum have information. |
I will openly disagree with this absolute. The scum MAY have information, depending on who they targeted and what (if any) their other powers are. They may be just as much in the dark as the rest of us, except that they know who the other scum are. In that respect, this day 1 is no different than any other. Going to an immediate absolute like this moves you up on my scumdar slightly, but not very much. |
That's not true. They know who each other are, which is true of 99% of games on here. He was making the point that the difference is that the TOWN have more information that on most day ones, because there was a night 0 in this game. He wasn't referring to scum having more or less information than normal, but rather the town having more information than normal.
Tying to confuse this point puts you right up there with jadesmar on the scum list in my mind.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:19 am Post subject: 197 |
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| MNO, I think Sentran merely misread the text he quoted. I don't see it as a scum tell at all. |
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MNOWAX
0.999... of a Troll
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:12 am Post subject: 198 |
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| Zag wrote: |
| MNO, I think Sentran merely misread the text he quoted. I don't see it as a scum tell at all. |
Thanks for giving him that out. I know that it is quite possible that happened. i wanted to gauge the reaction to my statement.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX |
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Zag
Unintentionally offensive old coot
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:00 am Post subject: 199 |
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Sorry. I call 'em as I see 'em. I still have him at the top of my scum list (with Jedo as a very close second) -- I think that there are several perfectly good scum tells that he's made. But I also hate seeing them get manufactured. BTW, you rose on the list for that, but only a little.  |
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Sentran
Ray of Sucking Funshine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:32 am Post subject: 200 |
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I must have been cross-eyed when I read Jedo's post the first time. I swear I read it as "because the scum have more information". I guess that makes the entirety of my post worthless.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland |
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