Werewolf: the Apocalypse Mafia [GAME OVER - Town wins]

[spyrl]

Current Vote Count:

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Raearia]

The current argument going on makes me feel like last game. Where we had us townies arguing back and forth over another townie while the scum sat back and waited for us to shoot ourselves in the foot.

While I see the points being made I am inclined to feel like both Sentran and Zag are town. I am suspicious of Jedo, because I feel like not bringing up EVERY possibility in a post does not mean its a scum tell. I feel like it is a flimsy reason to get on a vote for someone, but again it is day one we don't really have much to go on except what is being posted. I am also suspicious of Jades, but am refraining from voting or really giving it much thought because it is based off of the way he posts not what he is saying.

Yes I know some will argue that with a night phase scum have the advantage, but I don't see how knowing who each other are as MNO pointed out is advantageous when someone else mentioned it is information scum would have in other games starting on day. Unless I am missing the point completely. I have not played scum so I don't know how that works.

I did just wake up so I have no idea if what I just said makes sense or is a jumbled mess of nothing. haha if its a mess I will re-post a translation with a more clear meaning. Otherwise I am off for a bit!
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10289 is the end!

[Sentran]

Unvote, Vote: Lifeinmomland
This vote switch is in the interest of moving along the quietest day 1 in history. I don't believe her to be the likeliest scum candidate, and I only chose her because she had the greatest number of votes. I feel at this point that if we don't do SOMETHING, we're going to be playing the deadline game.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Durryn]

Vote: Sentranfor jumping on the biggest train, just for it being the biggest. Scummiest thing I have seen day 1

I don't like this vote either, but it is the only really scum worthy ting I have seen anyone do so far.
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Sentran]

@Durryn, your unwillingness to vote me when I was voting you, aka OMGUS, has been noted. It appears far more scumworthy (to me) to wait until the vote switches in order to avoid persecution.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[MNOWAX]

okay for anyone who still isn't thinking this through the scum ALSO have more information this game. Their kill for whatever reason didn't go through, which is why they have more info, hence this is why this isn't a normal day one.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[Sentran]

[Zag]

[Durryn]

I wasn't attempting to avoid anything, in fact I didn't believe you were scum until that moment. The reasoning behind my vote on you was very clear and had I noticed anyone else do it, I would have voted there.
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Sentran]

1. I am not scum.
2. I am, in fact, town.
3. I have not lied, or even attempted to mislead, in any of my posts.

The reason for this post is simple. Feel free to quote from it when going after the scum after I am lynched and my words are proven.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[itisally]

Sentran---- So if Durryn doesn’t OMGUS vote that is scummy, because he should have overreacted when you voted him? Or it is scummy for him to find you suspicious for voting a wagon for wagon sake? Again, I don't see a Durryn Scum here.

In regards to the NPC, yes as a mod I would use it as a replacement in the event of a pc getting killed on night zero, but in the morning that would still report as a death and the player would be informed of their new role. Mafia would know they had been successful. If, on the other hand, the mafia attack was unsuccessful I would have to explain away an extra character, in this case she left by choice.

Does this give Mafia more info? Well they know someone may be on to them, or someone had a onetime invincibility or someone was protected by a doc or..... Whatever, they know a kill didn't happen and they know who they targeted, if they have any investigative type roles they may have used them as well.

Does this give the town more info? Someone knows they were attacked (seen as valuable?) or they are down a invincibility or a cop protected them and so on. We may assume that someone was targeted and it didn't happen, but we don't know. Those with investigative abilities may have information, but shouldn't share blatantly this early in the game.

It is like day 2 with no back story.

I don't think it is enough information to be helpful. What is did give the mafia was a chance to plan. I would assume that thier day one voting and targeting is not as haphazard as it normally is.
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[Zag]

itisally, it looks as if you are likely to be the swing vote. I'm not sure what your reason was for voting LIML, but you clearly are starting to see Sentran's scumminess. Your choice will make the difference, I think, because the people who are waiting in the wings seem likely to stay there. (Even if changing your vote just makes a tie, which I think might be the case, LIML can always make a defensive vote to protect herself.)

OK, so I just went to see your vote on her, and it seemed without conviction. [The phrase that tipped me off to that was "(not with any amount of conviction)" ] I'm not especially happy about defending her, because I think she is as likely as many to be the third scum, if there is one. But I'm not happy about lynching her today when we have the scum twins of Sentran and Jedo.

[MNOWAX]

At six pages of stuff, we have enough to get to day two. If need be I'll hammer whomever makes it to five if jadesmar doesn't, just to keep the game moving.

For the record, my only true vote this day is jadesmarscum, and he is the only one i think i have a handle on that is scum, folllowed by a lessor likely, but definitely possible, Sentranscum.
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The Man The Myth The Legend
MNOWAX

[itisally]

I don't like to vote when I first make an observation, but I have been leaning that way. As I have let it perkolate...

Unvote: LIML
Vote: Sentran
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I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong.

[jadesmar]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Sentran]

[Zag]

Actually, it wasn't scum-hunting that got you accused, it was:
A. Asking potentially role-sniffing questions
B. Attacking me when I had the tenacity to accuse you of asking role-sniffing questions.

Since you've never managed to come up with to tell us a reason why you thought only scum would object to you asking your role-sniffing questions, it just looks scummy. OK, it looks scummy anyway. Perhaps because it was scummy?

[Sentran]

@Zag: First, how much should I reveal? I am against role revealing on day 1, but it may be the only way you will possibly understand my motivation for asking such questions.

Second, I notice the word potentially in your first point. This by defenition means it's a possibility that my questions were role sniffing, and therefore also possible that they were not. In point of fact, I had no desire to role-sniff, only to determine affiliation (as in mafia or town). Again, if I wanted to role-sniff, I would ask for tribes.

Third, can you quote where I attacked you for questioning my questions? I do not recall doing that. In fact, I distinctly remember calling you out for saying I was vote jumping when you were proven to be role jumping more than I. Please, enlighten me.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Durryn]

"Duty is heavy as a mountain, Death is light as a feather."
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Zag]

The other stuff is no more or less than you would say if you were scum and you were doing a little role-sniffing.

[Sentran]

@Zag: Fair enough, it does indeed look like I voted you for questioning my questions. In actuality my vote was more for the fact that you once again called someone for a scumtell in the form of a question without an accompanying vote. It's a tactic I've seen you use in the past, when scum.

As for the first line of your post, the same could be said of everyone who's bothering to post in this game. In fact, it is. I still want to know how much you feel I should reveal, so that I can potentially prove the purpose of the question you have taken such offense to. Oh, wait, I'm pretty sure that's every question I've asked.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Zag]

[Jedo the Jedi]

I don't see an "attack," but I confess we may be meaning different things. I didn't believe he did that just to catch somebody like you, and I thought his vote was pointless to that end. Apparently he did as well because he confessed it was mostly OMGUS and dropped it pretty quickly when jadesmar came around. If you could explain which part was an attack, that would help.

In the meantime, it seems you have chosen to ignore my questions. No, they weren't particularly targeted at you, but they were asked to the people voting for Sentran as they suggest he is not as scummy as people apparently think. As the unofficial leader of this wagon, your answer is priority for me. After all, I'm just trying to take your advice:

[Zag]

In your previous two posts you asked only two questions, one of which was, I assumed, rhetorical. But I'll concede that the other one was a real question and that I haven't answered it -- I'll do so below. I've already pointed out the attack (in post 222) so I won't bother responding to that. If you don't feel that it was enough to justify the word 'attack' then we're just disagreeing over shades of meaning.

[Durryn]

Um....... Neither of your questions have any bearing on my vote for Sentran and MNO holds the #2 position on my list for the same reason
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If there's anything around here more important than my ego, I want it caught and shot now! - Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Garou_Kinfolk]

As the game seems to have slowed down, I'm going to institute a Soft Deadline of 1 Week (end of Day 1 would be March 1). This deadline can be extended by majority vote or removed by an increase in posts. I have also proded those who haven't posted in 1 week or more.
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Most posts made from my phone.

[jadesmar]

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Perpentach]

[Lifeinmomland]

I see a stalemate. FYI. I have been ill in between girl scout cookie booths resulting in being quieter than usual. I am reading along though. My plans for tonight include reading through the verbose posts again to see if any can sway me, though as yet none have convinced me. Then topping it off with much chicken broth and hours of un interrupted sleep.
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Who is John Gult?

[Jedo the Jedi]

[Zag]

I've already admitted that my voting might seem like vote jumping, but I haven't bothered to defend it because I don't care that much what you and Sentran think. However, now that a third person (including me) has brought it up, I guess I should explain.

.J. Just a joke vote for Jedo.
...........S. Sentran seems to be vote-sniffing, in a sideways fashion
.................S. and he attacks me for accusing him of it.
.................S.
.................S.
.....................................................L. Oh, jadesmar is a cop! That's why he's
.....................................................L. so hot after LIML on such lame evidence
.....................................................L.
.........................................................................................J. Jedo, the ass, has outed our cop!!
.....................................................L. Ok, calm down. Vote on logic, not anger
.....................................................L.
.....................................................L.
.................S. jadesmar denies being a cop, vote returns to Sentran
.................S.
.................S.
.................S. and stays there.

Here is my voting history, and why. It's really only two actual votes, with a brief interlude of anger.
1. Joke vote.
2. I've suspected Sentran ever since he pursued what seemed to me like vote sniffing, and then attacked me for pointing it out.
3. I moved to LIML when I thought jadesmar was really a cop and his vote was the result of investigation.
4. I was totally pissed off at Jedo for what I thought was outing our cop. This vote was just anger, not logic.
5. Return to the "correct" vote
6. The basis for that vote goes away, return to the one I still find most suspicious.

[Zag]

Similar analysis for Sentran. I've put his "reason" for the vote, followed by what I see as his reason. Of course, the reasons I put are filtered through my own vision of already seeing him as scum, so YMMV.

1. Jadesmar. "using the lamest day 1 reason short of a die roll. "
(i.e. that band-wagon hasn't got legs, so I'm not going to jump on it. Maybe I can start one here.

2. Zag. "Exactly as suspected."
(Zag's always a good target, because he's vocal and not afraid to mix it up.)

3, jadesmar. No actual reason stated. (#9 in his ISO. You figure it out.)
(Oh, it looks like that bandwagon is catching steam. I should get back on it before doing so looks suspicious.)

4. Durryn. "I have been mulling this thought over, and sleeping on it, but I can't seem to shake it. The more I look over it, the more jades' comments seem intended to find scum (although I'm not sure I agree with the methods). That leads me to an unexplored road... "
(Darn, that bandwagon is breaking down, and I don't want to get on the LIML one because [I already ridiculed the reason for it / she's my scum buddy]. Let's throw some new mud on the wall and see if it sticks.)

5. LIML. "This vote switch is in the interest of moving along the quietest day 1 in history. I don't believe her to be the likeliest scum candidate,"
(Well, I can't actually say that I suddenly see her as suspicious, or someone will point out how I ridiculed the reason behind jadesmar's initial vote. Maybe everyone is sick enough of day 1 that this will slip by.)

[Sentran]

Unvote. Vote: Zag

Prior to this game, I looked up to Zag as the player I wanted to emulate. His reads were solid, his instincts uncanny. When he played scum, my respect for him grew even more.

Then... this game happened.

Zag is being an idiot. He has actively chosen to highlight certain "tells" while ignoring questions posed to him. Now he even admits that he has chosen not to defend himself because he doesn't care what we think. This is a good tactic I've used in the past... when scum. If you ignore the arguments brought against you and just keep on playing, other players will usually forget them. Instead, it's defending yourself that gets you noticed. Case in point: me.

I am not scum, I am town. My role is that of Garou Kinfolk (yes, just like the moderator). I will not divulge my powers at this time. The reason I started asking questions was twofold. First, as Kinfolk, I am not Garou (werewolf). Most non-Garou roles will likely be scum or anti-town. Since I am possibly the only one that is town, I expect that all others will be scum. Second, I want discussion! Too many quiet players in a game have led to a month of too few posts, and very little day 1 momentum.

I am intending to double-post. My next post will be my reads and why I have voted for those individuals. If you don't care to read it, ignore it. But understand that everything I've done has been for town.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Zag]

Oh, I forgot to put my other possible interpretation for Sentran's final vote:

(Here come da bus, here come da bus. Don't look now 'cause here come da bus.)

[Sentran]

My votes have targeted only 4 people: jadesmar, Zag, Durryn, and Lifeinmomland. Here are my reasons for each.

Jadesmar was my first (and third) vote, for a poor vote choice. LIML asked what I felt was an innocuous question, and jades voted her for it. I saw no scumtell in the question, but noted it for future reference to watch LIML for clues. The third vote was for a ridiculous argument with MNO, combined with what I perceived as a dodge to claim town.

I voted for Durryn because he has patently refused to claim a side. Look over his ISO. I caught that early in the game, and then I started looking to other players for the same thing. In case there is a truth-determining power in the game (such as Truth of Gaia), the best defense would be to tell the truth, or to lie by omission.

LIML got my vote, as I stated, to try to get the game rolling. It's been far too quiet for a day 1, and we will not gain any ground if everyone just lets 4-5 people run the show.

That leaves Zag. His first look at me consisted of a subtle claim of my scumminess, without an accompanying vote. This is a good psychological play, in that he can begin a wagon against me without casting the first vote. If nobody else agrees, he can turn his sights elsewhere without anyone catching on to his play. He's used this tactic in the past, as scum. My last vote, again for him, is because he just feels off this game.

I'm also watching Jedo closely. Well, I'm watching everyone, but I'm paying particular attention to Jedo. He appears to be trying to cozy up to me, and my paranoia kicked in. I'm not sure if this is because he actually agrees with me, or because he's scum and trying to get the support of a townie for his later use.

That's enough wall for today. Make of it what you will.
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Sentran
"Speaking of double negatives, I haven't read greylab yet today." - Lifeinmomland

[Perpentach]