Metal

[Legend of Tenshi]

Thrash, Rap, Death, Speed and Black metal are my specialties. You ask, I tell.

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The Minister for Thread Hijacking wants YOU!

[Sniklac16]

In your opinion what are the best metal bands?

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"Stories just show the writers imagination but poetry is writing from the heart"

[Vegetable]

Why do they have such stupid names?

[Agamemnon]

Do you believe that the band 'Blood' were the main poineers of Euro Black/Death metal, leading on to help others like 'Frost', 'Delirious' and 'Bloodshot' make a name for themselves? Also, do you think they helped the ever growing Polish and Czech bands such as 'Napalmed', 'Nemesis, 'Sphere' and 'Trauma'? Or would these have progressed naturaly through their own rights?

Do you believe that America was the pioneers in these music fields before Europe? Please state the reasons for your answer.

[DP]

What's your opinion on The Gathering?

[Vegetable]

Please explain the differences between all of them.

[pikachamp]

I like Copper, that's a good metal, and it turns green!

[Vegetable]

Copper chloride makes a really cool coloured flame when you burn it.

[The Cruciverbalist]

Do metal bands intentionally make their logos near-impossible to read? Because it sure looks that way to me.

[Courk]

If you don't pay attention to the satanicness, some of those look pretty cool.

[Vegetable]

Do all of them have ties to the same satan, or do they all have different interpretations of satan?

[Coyote]

Other than reply #5, there's too much focus on specifics and not enough on generalities. Some of us want to learn through slow, simple steps. Sooo.....

What exactly is 'Metal'? Well, ok, maybe not 'exactly', as I realize there are always shades of grey in categorizing music...nevertheless, can you give us some sort of general idea as to what defines 'Metal'?

What's the history of 'Metal'? I would assume there are pioneers in this field--who were they? Are there any artists who made 'landmark' advances in Metal? Is Metal still a viable force in current music? What do you think the future holds for Metal as a musical form?

[Vegetable]

How long have you been interested in trying to summon satan?

[Aga]

My god, I could bore Coyote for hours on the subject of the history of (Heavy)Metal.

Well.........the way I believe it to be anyway. I know, I was there

[Buzzsaw]

Does heavy metal music promote violence and drug use?

[Legion]

Where are the boundaries between metal, punk and rock?
Which category would you place Motorhead in?
Which category would you place Crass in?

[Legend of Tenshi]

Snicklack: In your opinion what are the best metal bands?

I would put 'In Flames' at the top of my list by far. Also, I really like a band going by the name of 'Killswitch Engage'. Historically speaking the best bands I can think of are Helmet and Machinehead.

Veg: Why do they have such stupid names?

I would say that they are marketing to an audience that isn't you. They go for a more aggresive sounding name as the style of music the produce tends to be quite brutal.

Aga: Do you believe that the band 'Blood' were the main poineers of Euro Black/Death metal, leading on to help others like 'Frost', 'Delirious' and 'Bloodshot' make a name for themselves? Also, do you think they helped the ever growing Polish and Czech bands such as 'Napalmed', 'Nemesis, 'Sphere' and 'Trauma'? Or would these have progressed naturaly through their own rights?
Do you believe that America was the pioneers in these music fields before Europe? Please state the reasons for your answer.

First of all, I would trace the darker shades of metal all the way back to King Crimson. I would say that listening to songs of theirs such as 20th Century Schizoid Man you can see the style developing. To the issue of Blood, I would say that yes they are one of the progenitors of the modern black/death metal scene with their stand out debut LP of Impulse to Destroy and that without them bands such as mayhem may never have had such a break. My information about the Polish and Czech scene from that era isn't quite as complete but I will try to answer the second question too.

From what I know of Napalmed they are quite industrial and raw. I would say they come from a different musical leaning to blood and since they arrived on the scene much later they probably looked to different influences. Nemesis I find to be very much based in prog metal and as they arrived on the scene around about 1997 I would say they would look to different roots to Blood. I must admit that my knowledge of the last two is limited at best and anything I said about them would have a very good chance of being wrong.

As to who were the pioneers. I mentioned above that I believe bands such as King Crimson were the catalyst for death/black metal and as such I would have to say Europe were the originators of true brutal metal.

DP: What's your opinion on The Gathering?

I am going to be quite harsh. I don't really like them at all. They strike me as all together too sombre and atmospheric. At times they almost seem to be trying their hand at deep trance. Sadly in my mind they do not truly qualify as metal.

Veg: Please explain the differences between all of them.

The musical styles or the bands?

The Cruciverbalist: Do metal bands intentionally make their logos near-impossible to read? Because it sure looks that way to me.

I would say it relates to the sound the try to make. Often it has huge amounts going on at the same time. On a lighter note, you could probably say they make their logos like their lead singers (listen to davidian and tell me I am wrong!)

Veg: Do all of them have ties to the same satan, or do they all have different interpretations of satan?

2 words, Soul Fly.

Coyote:

I Would define metal as heavy, dark and brutal. It comes in all sorts of guises, from the wild strains of symphonic death metal made famous by Cradel of Filth all the way to the vicious, gutteral vocals of bands such as Machine Head.

Over the years It has evolved and split into the current scenes, most notably Death/Black and Thrash. A offshoot of metal about 4 years or so ago commonly referred to as Nu-Metal (slipknot and the boys) is where the publicity and the teen angst seems to lurk but the true metal sceen is alive and well, especially in Australia and Europe(Triple J Has a fantastic late night metal show that I am an avid fan of). Any of the names mentioned by Aga and myself would be considered quite major and influential in the scene.

Veg: How long have you been interested in trying to summon satan?

Off and on since 1999. My nickname at school was Devil Boy.

Aga: I am very envious of people like yourself. I am especially envious of my Cousins (28 and 26) because they were at Machine Head's final gig in England.

Buzz: Does heavy metal music promote violence and drug use?

I would say it depends on the metal you listen to. The average metal band would probably be up on violence. Most probably imbibe drugs and some would support them. The belief that it is more prevalent in metal I believe is a unfounded claim. I only need to point to Hip-Hop "Stars" such as Busta Rhymes and Ice T's imfamous band 'body count' to prove that their scene is far more drug and violence based.

Legion:

The boundary between rock and metal should be easy to spot. Listen to any song by Staind or Nickleback or some other rock band and you will hear what I would call rock. Listen to 'Only for the weak' by In Flames and you will hear the more musical side of black metal. Listen to 'Davidian' by Machine Head and you will hear pure, glorious, unbridled rage. If by punk you mean Sex pistols, then you can tell punk by it's lack of talent. If you mean punk as in Kenesis then it is very musical and angsty, often with political statements.

I would call Motorhead rock. I would call Crass Punk.

I hope I meet your standards for a informed metal fan Aga.

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[This message has been edited by Legend of Tenshi (edited 04-15-2004 08:17 AM).]

[Legion]

[Dragon Phoenix]

I see you make a distinction between metal and rock. Why? I would have thought that metal is one of the sub-division of rock? What we in my days used to call hard rock is not metal? I'm talking bands like Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Led Zeppelin.

[Legion]

Yeah, I'm with you on that DP, but then again punk seems to mean something completely different now as well.


Tenshi. What was the first metal song/band?

[Courk]

When people in Stomp bang pipes together, is that metal?

[DP]

From AMG:

quote:

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To some, Hard Rock and Heavy Metal are nearly interchangeable terms, since they share so many similarities. In both styles, loud, distorted guitars are prominent and the band is fronted by a lead singer who rarely plays another instrument. However, there's a key difference ¡ª Hard Rock stays true to the bluesy rock & roll of the Stones and has a certain swing in the back beat. Heavy Metal has no swing ¡ª it relies on brutal guitar riffs and pummelling rhythms.
Hard rock evolved in the late '60s, as psychedelia and blues rock began pushing the boundaries of amplification and blues-based riffs. Hard-Rock relies less on improvisation than blues-rock and it isn't as loud as heavy metal, even if it shared the same distorted guitars and long solos. In Hard Rock, it's the songs, rhythms, riffs and hooks that matter, and they should all be played as loud as possible.

Heavy Metal also derived from the shatteringly loud blues-rock and psychedelia of the late '60s. Metal sanded away most of the blues influences and leaving the powerful, loud guitar riffs. In the early '70s, heavy metal established itself as one of the most commercially successful forms of rock & roll. In the next three decades, metal adapted itself to the times and it never completely disappeared from the charts. At its core, heavy metal is an adolescent experience; teenagers ¡ª primarily white males ¡ª form the majority of its audience. Some critics dismiss metal as simplistic primal pounding. Certainly, a fair share of heavy metal is nothing but three-chord riffing, yet most metal bands place a premium on technical skill. Metal guitarists have always been innovators in technique, speed, and skill. In every subgenre of heavy metal, the guitar is the center of the music. The songs are assembled around the riff, with the gutiar solo taking prominence. By and large, heavy metal is rock & roll with all of the roll stripped away ¡ª the blues remains, but it doesn't swing. All of the rhythms are fairly rigid, almost military in origin. In every metal style, from pop-metal to thrash, bombast is the key ¡ª from the drums to the guitars, it's about being as loud as possible.

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[Vegetable]

quote:

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Veg: Please explain the differences between all of them.

The musical styles or the bands?

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[Hitchhiker]

Marilyn Manson - rock or metal?

[Agamemnon]

What DP posted from that site, is IMHO a load of testiculated scrotings! (No offence old chum)
Back in the old days when the NWOBHM (New wave of British heavy metal, circ 1979-1983) was in full force, there were many bands who mixed a heavy bluesy rock and roll rhythm with a main lead and bass guitar lead, so that site saying that...

[DP]

[jesternl]

Aga, would you consider Status Quo Metal?

Tenshi, somebody has to say it.. what is your opinion of Metallica?

[Legend of Tenshi]

DP, I am with Aga. That artical really didn't have a lot to say about metal. Badly uninformed imho. At the moment I am listening to a song called 'Jester Script Transfigured' by In Flames and it is very swing based. Almost waltz-able.

Legion:

As to the very first metal band/song I would point to '21st Century Schizoid Man' is the earliest true metal sound I have found. The whole song is true metal, from the lyrics...

Originally posted by Lyrics:

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Black rack, barbed wire
Politians funeral pyre
Innocents raped with napalm fire
Twenty first century schizoid man

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To the insane solos in the middle, especially the almost speed metal section on sax. Even the vocalist is doing his bit with heavily distorted vocals. All in all a complete metal track.

Courk:

No, that is tribal rythms, an underground techno movement.

Veg:

Thrash Metal: Brutal and ferocious attacking riffs, genrally with little more than a guitar, a base drums and vocals. A style made famous by early work of bands like metallica. Think 'Battery' off master of puppets.

Speed Metal: Insanely fast, multi-layered rythms and harmonies. Think Blind Gaurdian.

Rap Metal: Most commonly seen in the Nu-metal wave of bands. Metal music with a lead vocalist rapping instead of usual metal vocals. Think System of a down (Ie. Steal this albulm, not toxicity) and some Rammstein (Links, Sensucht)

Death/Black Metal: Violent, brutal and guttural. The best and the worst metal imho resides in this category. In flames, Machine Head and Killswitch Engage all sit in this category. Think Pinball map (In flames) and Davidian (machine head).

The most common words used to describe metal, in my mind, are brutal, complex, progressive and violent. All of which are widely used outside of Metal circles.

Hitchhiker:

That question will come back to haunt me later, but I would say metal. Songs like King Kill 33 and Rock and Roll [Niggah] almost verge on thrash while others tracks move more into my concept of doom metal. I would say he is a bit hard to put in one basket, and he does cater to a younger audience than the average metal band, but I do enjoy his music and if he played in brisbane I would definately go and see him perform.

Jesternl:

My opinion of Metallica I have stated before in OT. I believe they were a very good thrash band for their albulms up to Kill Em All. They then moved into a more mainstream style and ended up producing such musical horrors as saint anger. It is a real shame that such a good band went so horribly bad. I still wear a MoP t-shirt on ocasion.

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The Minister for Thread Hijacking wants YOU!

[jesternl]

I see you listed Rammstein as well., and that makes me wonder.
First off, do you speak, or understand German?
Second, does understanding the lyrics matter?
In other words, are lyrics part of what makes it metal, or is it the voice just one of the intruments?

[Legend of Tenshi]

Jesternl:

I listed Rammstein because I love the music. The voice is definately more important than the lyrics in bands of their ilk. Even though I did German for a couple of years and have a reasonable understanding of it most passes over my head. I don't think that it is vital to understand what they are saying, but more the feelings they are conveying. The feeling of rage or hate in a voice is pretty universal, and as such the words themselves come second. On the thought of the voice, it would seem that it is just another instrument. Another way of evoking the desired feelings in the listener, but I guess that is the same in all music. The vocal style itself though is pretty unique, a way of delivering a message without any real form of comprehension. I think the best way to describe metal is through my first experience with it. I was on a scout camp and an older boy had a Master of Puppets playing on his stereo. The title track was playing and I asked him what the lead vocalist was saying. His response summed up metal. 'Try taking drugs, might make sense then. It's possible that it still wont though.'

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Stupidity. Ignorance. n00bness. Hijacking. unfounded assumptions.

When you powers combine, I am captain clunker

[Sniklac16]

What I don't understand is how rap is included in this category?

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"Stories just show the writers imagination but poetry is writing from the heart"

[wordcross]

who said it was?

[The Ktulu]

Awesome! A thread on metal!

I have no questions, but my curiosity has come out to play. How do you rate these bands (rate however you like...)?:

Blind Guardian
Iced Earth
HammerFall
Sonata Arctica
Jag Panzer
Symphony X
Children of Bodom

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Nineteen Ninety-nine

[Vader]

Cool Thread. I am disapointed no one said Killing Joke a great band that never really got its do.

I also know tht I am now going to be labled a sucker, but you have to give props to Pre Black album Metallica. Just about any Slayer album. Exodus was cool. Death Angel & Nuclear Assult are up there too.

[Legend of Tenshi]

~sees slayer~

~blinks~

~faints~
bad music overload


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Originally posted by Vinny:

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Tenshi also forgot to mention he is a sadistic bastard

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[Vader]

Fair enough.

[Legend of Tenshi]

I saw anthrax and kill switch engage last night. The were gooooooooooood!

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Originally posted by Vinny:

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Tenshi also forgot to mention he is a sadistic bastard

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[Legend of Tenshi]

Oh and Vader, Death angel are very cool. It was only slayer that made me faint from a BMO.

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Originally posted by Vinny:

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Tenshi also forgot to mention he is a sadistic bastard

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[Vader]

Yes I loved Deth Angel. They were pretty damn cool. What about Killing Joke, do you like them?

[Paige]

What is type O negative and soundgarden and mushroom for their genre?
Does any fall within the catergories you list as knowing of?