Classical Music

[Paige]

I really do like the Magic flute. The whole 2 cd set.

Also most things debussy.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Paige
Good for you. Any questions though?

Extro
Definitely go with the famous toccata (and fugue) BWV565 by Bach. Awesome deep bass on the organ pedals. And easy to find - it is his most famous organ composition.
*listens and enjoys*

[Beartalon]

As one of the few Christian denominations to use a regular brass band for most music, the Salvation Army has a plethora of music, ranging in many styles. Some of those are rearangements of classical music, but there are neither strings nor woodwinds. How do you feel about modern arrangements of classical pieces that significantly alter the sounds originally intended by the composer, or alter the style? Are you a purist in that regard?

[Lilliputian Hitcher]

Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, Fourth Movement. Could you please provide me with a little background information on this particular piece?

[DP]

Bearty
No, rearrangements can be quite nice, but they'd better add something to the original. As an example, re-writing a violin concerto as a flute concerto, or a clarinet sonata as a viola sonata, can have quite interesting effects. The same holds for orchestrations of some string quartets (Mahler did two brilliant ones of Beethoven and Schubet works). Heck, I even like the Stokowski arrangements of Bach works, and that's about as a-purist as you can get.

In general though, rearrangements for brass bands do not do it for me. The medium is not my taste.

LH
Trust me, you do not want to get me started at the fourth movement of Beethoven's ninth symphony (Ode to Joy). The most overrated piece of classical music ever composed. I absolutely hate it. Too late, you got me started, I'll stop now. Someone who likes it can answer this one for me.

[Quailman]

What about more contemporary rearrangements, such as Eumir Deodato's Preludes & Rhapsodies, which includes Prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn, Pavane for a Dead Princess, Also Sprach Zarathustra, and Rhapsody in Blue?

[Termital]

I'd like to hear some commentary on The Rite of Spring, pretty please.

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Yearn brightly

[Beartalon]

What do you consider the best way to introduce children to Classical music?

[Agamemnon]

[Beartalon]

And what about contrived adapatations of Classical music, such as the "Hooked on Classics" series from a few years ago?

[DP]

I definitely do not like most of these modern poppy arrangements, but if it makes people become interested in classical music, then it does serve some purpose.

On the other hand, I like much of what artists like Vanessa Mae and Sarah Brightman are doing in terms of popularising classical music.

For introducing children to classical music, Fantasia is an excellent start. Peter and the wolf is another one. Perhaps less obvious but potentially very effective is Mussorgsky's Paintings at an exhibition in the orchestration by Ravel.

Termital, can you a bit more specific what you want to know about the Rite of Spring? It is one of my favourite compositions, but are you interested in its history, the music, the ballet, preferred versions or what?

[Quailman]

One of my kids' favorite pieces is Fanfare for the Common Man as performed by Emerson, Lake and Palmer. The saw 2001: A Space Odyssey and didn't understand it (no surprise there), but they really enjoyed the music.

[The Doctor]

Not to steal DP's thunder here, but, if I may, I'd like to at least mention the reception Rite of Spring got on opening night. The audience were so shocked that a riot broke out. During the performance. Some suspect that the producer, Diaghilev, actually started it; be that as it may, there are still reports that he loved every minute of the audience's reaction.

[Burning]

What's the most difficult time signature you are aware of? I've played some stuff in 5/4 (can't remember anything classical, but the theme to Mission:Impossible is in this). Anything nastier you've seen?
_________________
"Space is blue, and birds fly through it."
Werner Heisenberg

[Mackay]

[interruption]
I've played some stuff in 7/8 time. Or maybe it was 7/4. Anyway, seven beats to a bar. I don't have so much trouble with stuff like that, but I have trouble sometimes not so much with time signatures, but when they shift between time signatures at random times. But 7 beats per bar is the most difficult constant time signature I've had to play.
[/interruption]

[Gaspode]

Well, if a music discussion doesn't bring me back to the GL for a bit (or forever, who knows?), I don't know what will, so here goes...

What do you think of late 19th/early 20th-century composers like Holst, Debussy, and Granados? In your opinion, how do they rate compared to older composers such as Brahms, Mozart, Bach, etc?

What is your opinion of symphonic or military bands versus a full orchestra? Can an ensemble comprised of only winds and percussion ever sound as good as an orchestra?

Do you know anything about Hindemith? Have you ever heard his Sonata for clarinet, and if so, do you have any information on it?

[Dragon Phoenix]

I have no experience in playing unusual time signatures, but Mackay already gave some info on that.

[classical novice]

I'm a relative beginner to classical music and I'm overwhelmed by the myriad of names they have for pieces - symphony, concerto, sonata, fugue, rhapsody and many, many others that do not come to mind right now.

1) Is there an exhaustive list of all of these names? If not, how many oft-used ones are there?
2) What is the distinction between all these names?

[Dragon Phoenix]

That is quite a question. I will tackle it a bit at a time, starting with works for symphony orchestra.

Symphony:
A composition for a symphony orchestra, originally in 4 movements with contrasting tempi. Gradually, the four movement structure was less and less strictly followed, less conventional instruments could be added to the orchestra, and even voices could be used.
Suggested listening: Beethoven 5, Brahms 1, Dvorak 9, Mahler 4.

Symphonic poem:
A composition for a symphony orchestra in one movement (usually), based on an inspiration outside music (nature, literature).
Suggested listening: Richard Strauss (Don Juan), Respighi (Pini di Roma), Honegger (Pacific 231)

Overture:
Originally the instrumental introduction to an opera, often played by itself in concerts. Later also used for compositions akin to symphonic poems.
Suggested listening: Beethoven (Fidelio overture), Mendelssohn (Fingals cave overture), Rossini (William Tell overture)

Concerto:
A composition for solo instrument (sometimes 2-3, usually called double or triple concerto) and symphony orchestra, allowing the solist(s) to display their virtuosity. Often a three movement structure (quick/slow/quick) is used. Most popular instrument is the piano, followed by the violin, but concertos have been writen for almost every conceivable solo instrument (I will come back on this after I publish the results of a game in VG where this is used as a question).
Suggested listening: Rachmaninov (piano concerto 2), Mendelssohn (Violin concerto), Dvorak (cello concerto).

Rhapsody:
A composition for symphony orchestra without formal shape or outside inspiration.
Suggested listening: Gershwin (rhapsody in blue), Liszt (Hungarian rhapsodies).

Variations on a theme:
A composition for symphony orchestra where a melody (theme) of a composer (usually a different one) is used for a set of variations.
Suggested listening: Haydn variations (Brahms), Paganini variations (Rachmaninov).

[Guest]

It's probably also worth noting that there is some overlap between these categories. For example, Rachmaninov's variations are titled "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini", and are in the form of a piano concerto.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Thanks for the added comment.

Let's talk vocal music. I will fill in the blanks later.

Opera
Usually a drama, sometimes a comedy, where the lines are sung rather than spoken, accompanied by a symphony orchestra. An opera typically lasts 1-4 hours, with a number of acts and scenes. It is often introduced by an orchestra-only piece (Overture), in which some of the main melodies of the opera can be incorporated. Most operas have special arias, in which the main singers (often a tenor and a soprano) can show off their abilities. These arias are also frequently performed as separate pieces in concerts (e.g. Pavarotti singing Nessun Dorma from Puccini's Turandot). Frequently, a choir is used as back-up for the vocals, and sometimes as main singers as well (Verdi-Nabucco).
Suggested listening: Verdi-Aida, Puccini-Tosca

Operetta
A lighter form of opera, with many lines spoken rather than sung. Emphasis on melody rather than instrumentation. Very popular in Vienna (Johann Strauss). Borderline classical music to my taste.

Mass
A setting of the catholic mass to music, for solo singers, choir and symphony orchestra.
Suggested listening: Bach-Mass.

Requiem (traditional)
The most popular version of the mass, this one is the mass for the dead. For some reason, this has drawn out the best of some composers.
Suggested listening: requiems by Mozart, Verdi, Faure.

Requiem (non-traditional)
Several composers have taken the idea of the traditional Requiem, but used different texts than the latin version. This has resulted in two of the most moving requiems I know (Brahms and Britten).
Suggested listening: Brahms-A German Requiem, Britten-War Requiem, Hindemith-When lilacs last in the dooryard bloomed.

Lied/chanson/song
Usually for one singer, most often accompanied by solo piano. The lyrics are taken from poems. Sometimes a song cycle is composed, in which the songs share a theme (for instance the same poet, or telling a story). There are also songs and song cycles where the singer is accompanied by a symphony orchestra, especially in the Romantic period.
Suggested listening: Schubert-Winterreise, Schumann-Dichterliebe, Berlioz-Les nuits d'été, Mahler-Kindertotenlieder, R. Strauss-Four last songs.

Cantata
Oratorium
Gregorian

[Dragon Phoenix]

It's piano solo time!

Sonata
Although also more generally used for a certain type of compositional structure, a sonata as a composition - with sonata structure - is the most widely used piano piece. Usually in different movements with contrasting tempi.
Suggested listening: Beethoven-Moonlight sonata

Nocturne
Any solo piano piece with a ncoturnal flavour (the composer himself decides).
Suggested listening: Chopin, Fields

Ballade
A stronger type of composition, often based on an outside influence like a story.
Suggested listening: Chopin

Etudes
Pieces which are meant to educate and exercise the pianist as well as enchant the audience.
Suggested listening: Chopin, Debussy

Preludes
Short pieces often setting a particular mood.
Suggested listening: Chopin, Debussy

Mazurkas and polonaises
A Chopin specialty, based on melodies and dances from Poland.
Suggested listening: Chopin

Waltzes
Often a reaction on the very commercial waltzes for orchestra popular in Vienna. These composition use the same 1-2-3 tempi, but at a higher level.
Suggested listening: Chopin, Brahms

Preludes and fugues
Combination of an introductory prelude and a fugue (a piece in which a theme is chasing itself, sort of)
Suggested listening: JS Bach, Shostakovich

Suites
Popular in the baroque time, pieces combining several small compositions.
Suggested listening: JS Bach

Impromptus
Pieces that give the impression that the pianist is making them up as he goes along.
Suggested listening: Schubert

Mackay can help me out further on this one. Piano music is not my strong point - although we have a pretty big collection on CD, I prefer other forms of classical music.

[Mackay]

Uh... well... actually, DP, you've done quite a good job. I'm sure there's more, and I'll be glad to help, but first I have to think of them. *grin* One thing, as far as I know at least - suites are much more popular in chamber music than in piano music.

And here's one style of song I can think of right now, that wasn't mentioned in the previous post:
Fugue: A complicated style of music usually played in 3, 4 or 5 "parts". Each "part" is a separate melodic line, but each plays the same melody, only at different intervals. The effect is one of extreme intricacy, and it builds up as more parts are added into the song. Very difficult to play, as you're trying to maintain up to 5 melodies with two hands. _{(I personally suck at them - a Bach prelude and fugue is pretty much compulsory issue for advanced piano playing, at least overhere - so I'd always play the three-part ones. Once I did a four-parter and it damn near killed me. )}
As may have been indicated above, they are generally (possibly always, I've never seen one without) prefaced by a prelude.
Recommended listening: Bach

[The Ragin' South Asian]

fugue- A pathological amnesiac condition during which one is apparently conscious of one's actions but has no recollection of them after returning to a normal state. This condition, usually resulting from severe mental stress, may persist for as long as several months.

[knightshade]

Kinda weird, but I was talking about AI with someone and I mentioned a professsor I met at a Math seminar who showed us a computer program that could write fugues (with the impression that creativity was essential to AI)

I couldn't remember the name of the program, though.
The fugues, however, are quite remarkable.

Has anyone here ever heard of it??

-k

[Agamemnon]

Why do you recommend Bach, Mackay? Is he any good as a composer? I'd really like to get into classical music, but just can't get past the complexity of it.
Is James Last any good?
What about Liberace?

[Dragon Phoenix]

* cleans monitor *

Should any real questions come up the coming months, then I'll not answer them. I'm winding down my internet activities for the coming 5 months or so.

[Mercuria]

7/8-5/4-3/8
not actually difficult to play when you know the piece, but it nearly gave me a heart attack trying to sight read...

i'd have to say 7/8 is the most fun to march to ;p

[Beartalon]

I've played some interesting time signatures. 3/8 is not really difficult, except that it's rare to find a piece entirely composed in it. Usually when you see 3/8, it's surrounded by other time signatures, like 2/4. For those pieces, you really need to feel the music and know where you are by sound rather than beat. One signature I have trouble with is a triplet of half notes in 4/4 time. It's hard not to convert it to two dotted quarters followed by a quarter.

I've played pieces in 5/8. One particular piece switched among the straight 12345 to 12312 to 12123 for musical pulse. The two pieces I've sung in 7/8 were awful until I got used to the "missing" eighth.

The weirdest pattern I've ever played was a Salvation Army arrangement of two traditional fundamentalist songs played in counterpoint. Neither time signature on it's own is difficult: 4/4, 12/8. However, one part of the band played in 12/8 and the other played in a straight 4/4. It was very hard not to screw up when the people on both sides were playing three notes to my two eighths, and then switch.