What really happend in the bible. (Warning: Blasphemous Humo

[Eykir]

boysavant: I hate to get all Athiestic on you, but:

quote:

---

1. We're on this earth now to be tested and trialed. Going through these trials strengthens us (Hy, I *know* you already know this. You can't live in Utah and not know this.). Why even bother sending us to Earth in the first place? So that we can become like him.

2. Yep. They DID have to break a commandment. And God knew they would, and had to. It's kind of a long discussion about why it had to be Adam and Eve that did it, and not just God telling him.

3. God didn't lie. Adam and Eve suffered spiritual death (Removal from the presence of God). They did die spiritually.

---

1. So there are other Gods, since we're supposed to become like god =) So how can he be the only one like you say =P Besides, you only think we're here to be tested and grow strong.

2. Well, freaking DUH! Who else existed to break a commandment? Besides, god made rules and then told people to break them, so the rules he sets must be pretty worthless. (Not to mention, no commandment was broken at all, since the commandments didn't even EXIST at that time, since Moses isn't around. )

*ponders when someone will do the commandments tale*

3. God did lie. They did not die. Death is defined as the absence of life, and obviously there can be life without god, hence there is no such thing as spiritual death.

Now, please keep your religious ramblings out of this sacreligious thread. You were warned! (see title)


Hitchhiker, HyToFry, Antrax, Lepton, you guys and gal rock. This thread is one of the funniest things I've read here lately. Keep it up!

[Macros]

yeah, the multicoloured dreamcoat, and josehp, wheres that?

[Vice Kaiser mithhelm]

Eykir, that last one didn't even make sense.

bs, don't take anything in this thread seriously.

[casinopete]

everyone else is doing it, why shouldn't I?

1. Even if not taken as a joke, the statement is perfectly sound.
2. This one is incorrect, though I don't understand boysavant's take on it. there is no reason to suppose that Adam and Eve didn't know how to copulate. all the other animals seem to know how to do it just fine, presumably without having eaten of the Tree of KGE.
3. This one is both, in a sense. it wasn't a lie, as they did end up dying, but it was perhaps a bit deceptive, in the sense that it REALLY sounds as though He was warning of immediate death.

[HyToFry]

quote:

---

1. We're on this earth now to be tested and trialed. Going through these trials strengthens us (Hy, I *know* you already know this. You can't live in Utah and not know this.). Why even bother sending us to Earth in the first place? So that we can become like him.

2. Yep. They DID have to break a commandment. And God knew they would, and had to. It's kind of a long discussion about why it had to be Adam and Eve that did it, and not just God telling him.

3. God didn't lie. Adam and Eve suffered spiritual death (Removal from the presence of God). They did die spiritually.

---

Firstly, this thread is meant to be in good humor. I could just argue that you don't even believe the bible to be the word of God, but only as far as it is translated correctly. Everything that I point out as flawed about the bible, I would write off as bad translation, and not as bad God... but I won't. I'd rather argue the points.

1. You're missing my point. God *did* want them to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He put it in the garden, and even sent a snake to talk them into eating the fruit.

2. My point here was to paint the biblicle God as a bit flakey. He gave them two commandments, one of which had to be broken. He commanded them to disobey him. Furthermore, he punished Adam, Eve, and the snake for doing something "evil", comepletely ignoring the fact that they didn't even have a clue what "evil" was.

3. Spiritial death. HA! Lame at best. You'd have done better to claim that God meant that Adam would die on the heavenly day that he ate of the fruit. Adam lived to be just over 900 years. One day in heaven is about one thousand years on Earth. That, at least, holds water. Alas, that's all a moot point anyway. God lied to Adam and Eve. According to the bible, God lies many times.

In fact, I'll do the story of Joseph and his multi color coat. There's a nice lie in there for us to see. According to the bible, God is a liar, and he loves to torture people. He even enjoys the smell of innocent animals getting killed and burned. It's all in the bible.

[casinopete]

I swear I'm only continuing this because you sound like you want to, Hy... what conflicting commandments are you talking about in #2?

[HyToFry]

Firstly, you have to assume that anything which God tells anyone to do is a commandment.

"Don't eat of the fruit of the tree of Knowledge"

"Be fruitful and multiply."

Adam and Eve could not do both. They had to learn how to have sex at some point. Imediantly upon getting kicked out of the garden, Adam "knows" Eve, and Eve has a child.

[HyToFry]

Although... the bible does suggest that "from now on childbirth will be painful" which also suggests that Eve had given birth to children before Cain and Abel...

[casinopete]

what does learning how to have sex have to do with the tree of knowledge? as I said, lower animals know how to have sex, and I'm quite sure you'll find very few theologians who would claim they also ate of the tree.

and as for them not having sex in the garden. . . it says that where? chapter 4 begins with it simply because it's a new chapter. it's kinda like the separate creation of Eve not being mentioned in the first chapter - it just doesn't have anything to do with the theme of the chapter.

And if Cain not appearing in Eden is the justification, just look at the later geneology - no one has a kid until they're at least 65, and Jared not 'til he's 162. . . so Adam having a first child at age 100 isn't all that unusual.

[added in preview]
and your point about childbirth is a very good one. whether or not Eve had had children already, it makes it clear that the plan allowed for the possibility of children without a Fall.
[/aip]

[HyToFry]

Okay, the long awaited Joseph and his coat.

(Since I'm too lazy to do this from the King James Version, I'll be using the New International Version of the bible. Thier are only a few modest differences between the versions.)

Some background for you: (If you don't want the background of who these people are, just skip this post and read the next post.)

Jacob finds this chick, Rachael, and he's smitten for the girl. He offers to work seven years for her to "buy" her from her father who is Laban. So Jacob works for seven years, and Laban sends his daughter Leah to Jacob. Jacob boinks Leah. Laban gives Leah Zilpah as a hand maiden. When Jacob wakes up and realizes that he's been poking fun at the wrong girl, he's pissed. He goes to Laban and says "what the hell dood.. I worked for seven years for Rachael.. the cute one, not Leah the ugly."

Laban: "Yeah, I know, but I can't let you marry Rachael until Leah is married. Sorry, that's just the way it is here. I'll tell you what. Be with Leah for a week, and then, if you're willing to work for another seven years, I'll give you Rachael."

Jacob: "OKAY! w00t!"

So Jacob finishes his week with Leah (lots of sex kiddies) and he gets to "come in unto" rachael at the end of the week. Then he works for Laban another seven years.

Leah has four boys. After each of the boys is born (and perhaps some girls were born here, but the birth of a girl isn't worth mentioning) Leah says, "surely my husband will love me now, for I have bore him yet another son."

But Jacob just wouldn't love her; he was too smitten by Rachael (who couldn't bare children because God was punishing her for being more loved... which makes sense of course)

So Rachael gets all pissed off and says "Here, take my hand maiden and get her pregnant." So Jacob does (being the horny bastard who he is.) The hand maiden bears him two sons.

Leah notices that she is no longer having children (there is an interesting note to this) so she gives Jacob her hand maiden as well. Her hand maiden also bears him two sons.

During wheat harvast, Leah's sone Reubin finds some Mandrakes. Rachael asks Leah to share the mandrakes, and Leah says, "It's not enough that you stole my husband, now you want to steal my son's mandrakes?"

Rachael: "Okay, If I let him boink you tonight, then can I have some mandrakes?"

Leah: "SURE!"

So when Jacob is comming home, Leah stops him in the field and tells him that she bought his sex for a few mandrakes. So Jacob boinks Leah, yet again, and she gives birth to a son, and then to another son. (here's the interesting note. Leah stops having children until Jacob boinks her again. So are we to assume that one night with Jacob was enough to get her pregnant four times?) Also, Leah gives birth to a daughter named Dinah. (This is important, it's one of the few times in the bible when a female birth is noted... and probably only so we know who Dinah is later on when she gets raped by an uncircumsized man.)

Finally, God remember Rachael and lets her have a son. His name is Joseph. Later, Rachael has one more son, and dies in child birth.

Jacob also wrestles with God at some point and God renames Jacob to "Israel." (which was the start of the Israelites.) Note that the Israelites were numbered 17 people at the start of this story.

[HyToFry]

pete: I guess I'm assuming that, since they didn't have any children during their stay in the garden, they couldn't.

Now back to my story about Joseph. (Again, anything in italics was added, and is not in the bible.)

So Joseph and his brothers become Sheep herders (having only one sister will drive men to that sort of desperation.) One day, Joseph gives his dad a bad report about his brothers. They were lieing with the sheep far too often.

Israel loved Joseph more than his other sons, so he made him a coat of many colors to wear. The brothers saw this coat, and they were envious of his sexy coat. When they saw that he was more loved than they were, they hated him and could not speak peaceably unto him. Joseph has a dream and he tells his brothers, and that just pisses them off more.

The dream went something like this: "We were all binding sheves of grain and my sheve stood up, and your sheves bowed down to my sheve."

The brothers grew angry, "Do you think that you'll be our leader, and that you'll tell us what to do?" They hated him even more because of his dream, and the fact that he shared it with them.

He has a second dream, and this time he tells his brothers and his father. (note at this point that Joseph's mom is dead, but Israel speaks of her like she's still alive.) "In this dream the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me."

Israel asked, "Do you think then that your [dead] mother, myself, and your brothers will be your severts?" The brothers were even more angry about this, but his father thought about his words.

So the brothers go off to feed the sheep. Israel sends Joseph off to check on his brothers. When Joseph gets to where they're supposed to be, they aren't there, and some nice nameless guy offers directions to where they are. When Joseph gets there, the brothers see him comming and decide to kill him. Reuben begs them not to kill him, but to just put him in a well instead. The brothers steal his coat and put him in a well. Then they sit down to eat. A caravan of Ishmaelites approaches, and Judah convinces the other brothers that selling Joseph to the Ishmaelites is a better idea than killing him. They all agree, and they sale him to the Medianites for 20 shekels. When Reuben comes to get Joseph (I guess he wasn't there when they were voting to sell him) Joseph is, of course, gone. He tears his clothes, and then runs [naked] to his brothers and asks them where he should turn now. They kill a goat and dip Joseph's coat in the goat's blood. They take it to their father and ask him to confirm that it's Joseph's--just in case it's some other coat of many colors... He confirms it, tears off his clothes, and puts on a sackcloth so that he can mourn for his son. All his sons and daughters try to comfort him (I didn't even know he had daughters), but he's not about to be comfortated. He wants to mourn the loss of his son, so he neglects everything else. He wasn't this upset when Rachael dies...

Meanwhile, Joseph gets sold to Potipher... The Pharaoh's captain of the gaurd.

In the middle of this story, the bible interupts us to tell us the story of Judah and Tamar...

So Potiphar buys Joseph, and puts him to work. The Lord is with Joseph, and everything goes swell. Swell indeed. Everything is groovy! So groovy that Potiphar decides to let Joseph run the show at "Le Potiphar." Joseph has control of the house and all belongings, so God blesses all of Potiphar's possesions--because God loves Joseph you see.

Well... all this running of Potiphar's house made Joseph very buff indeed. He was a stud hunk. Potiphar's wife noticed and said, "hey kid; do me. do me now."

"Ew, gross, no," says Joseph. (maybe he wasn't Jacob's son... Jacob never passed up on some booty call.) "While I'm in charge, the master doesn't have to worry about anything, he can do whatever he wants. The only thing that he keeps from me is you. BECAUSE YOU'RE HIS WIFE!!!!" So the wife starts begging Joseph for sex, and he keeps saying no.

So one day he goes in the house, and all of the other servants are gone. The wife grabs him by the cloak--to rape him--and he leaves his cloak in her hands and flees. So she calls the other servants in and says "look, he tried to rape me, but I screamed, so he fled and left his cloak her. woah is me. " She tells her husband about the dirty Hebrew trying to rape her and he has Joseph put in prison. Luckly for Joseph, God still loves him, so the Warden just lets Joseph do whatever he wants, and all goes well in the prisons.

While Joseph is in prison, the baker and the butler of the Pharoah piss the Pharoah off and so they also get sent to prison. They both have dreams after a while. Joseph sees them and notices that they're a bit sad, so he asks them "what's up?"

"We both had dreams, but no one can tell us what they mean." "woa is us"

"Dreams should be interpretated by God, so tell me your dreams and I'll tell you what they mean, because I'm God."

Butler: "Well.. in my dream there was a vine in fromt of me, and it had three branches. It ripened quickly into grapes. I had the Pharaoh's cup and I made some wine for the Pharaoh and gave it to him."

Joseph: "Well.. that means that you'll be free in three days and back to your old posisition. But when you get there, don't forget about me. I don't want to be in here, I shouldn't be in here. I did nothing wrong. woa is me. "

The baker saw that the butler's dream was good so he decides to let Joseph decode his dream as well. "I had three baskets of bread on my head full of good baked goods for the king, but birds kept eating the baked things."

Joseph: "Ah yes, that means that in three days the king will cut off your head and hang your headless body out for the birds to eat."

Baker: "jeez... sory I asked. woa is me."

Three days later, the king has a birthday party, and brings the baker and butler before him. He restores the butler to his place, and, because the new baker is a better cook, he hangs the baker and leaves his body for the birds to eat. The butler forgets about Joseph....

Until one day... two years later... the Pharoah has a couple of dreams about seven fat cows getting eaten by seven thin cows, and seven health grains of wheat were devoured by seven thing grans of wheat. The pharoah wakes from the second of the two dreams troubled. He summons all the magicians and wise men to interpret the dream, but none of them could. Finally the cheif buttler remembers Joseph and tells the pharaoh of Joseph with his amazingly accurate dream interpertation. Pharaoh demanded that he see Joseph at once. The pulled Joseph from his duties at the prison, cleaned him up, showered him, and brought him before the King.

Pharoah: "I had this weird dream, and I was told that you can tell me what it means, is that true?"

Joseph: "No... but God can tell you what it means."

Pharoah: "Whatever, so yeah, I saw seven skinny cows eat seven fat cows and seven sickly grains of wheat eat seven healthy grains of wheat. What the hell doest that mean?"

Joseph: "Basically... they're the same dream. God's just letting you know that you're about to have seven years of abundance, followed by seven years of famine. You had two dreams, because God wants you to know that he's really going to do this. What you need to do is take a fifth of the harvest of grain and keep it in storage for when the famine comes. Don't eat any of this storage during the abundance, and save it for the famine so that your country won't be ruined."

Pharoah and his men liked the idea a lot. So much that Pharoah decided that Joseph should be in charge of all of Egypt. The only thing that will make the Pharoah more powerful than Joseph is the fact that he still sits on the throne.

So that's how Joseph come to control all of Egypt. (Don't worry kids... there's more to this story, it's just really long, so I'm breaking it apart.)

[HyToFry]

Sorry, this story will have to be put on hold for a bit. I'm working on something else.

------------------
The truth is, you could slit my throat, and, with my last dying breath, I'd apologize for bleeding on your shirt.

[polyhymniastar]

It's ok Hy, take your time. It's good so far. My personal favorite funny version of the Joseph story are the lyrics in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.

[Lepton]

Anyone catch Jeopardy tonight?

Originally posted by my sleep-clouded memory:

---

[Biblical Guy] said "What is truth?", to which Jesus replied "You cannot handle the truth."

---

[HyToPika]

*gets peoples hopes up*

[Hitchhiker]

saved! from the prune

[Werebear]

(Kings 2, Ch. 23 - 25) One of my favorite bible passages. It's always nice to see cousins having fun. Oh, we're supposed to rephrase these passages humourously? No need.

[Beartalon]

*jumping ahead to the New Testament, at the Crucifixion*

Tradition says that Jesus spoke 7 times while on the Cross. Well, seven is a lucky biblical number, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were more, just not recorded as worthy ob being in the lucky seven, such as:

"Hey Pete! I can see your house from here."

"Now I know why women walk funny in high-heeled shoes. These spikes are killing me!"

[plague309]

lol (and i only say that if I actually do)...
HyToFry... i read you're description of Moses vs. The Pharoah... and i actually worked through the entire Exodus with a bunch of classmates here at the University of Michigan (Great Books II for anybody who goes here and is wondering where we were afforded the opportunity to criticize the bible without being ostracized)
it's a good analysis, but our theory was this: the plagues were not sent by god, but each one was merely a result of the one before it... (I don't have my notes, and can't remember the plagues off-hand, but each plague makes sense scientifically if you look at the one before it...)
just my two cents...
Keep up the thread.. it's interesting to read...

------------------
Sometimes you eat the bar, and sometimes the bar eats you.

[Duke Gnome]

Are you referring to this?