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Beartalon
'Party line' kind of guy
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 Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: 81 |
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| Amb wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The bandwagon is fairly baseless too, so there isnt much I can pick it apart on. You cannot disassemble logic that isnt there |
There isnt anything to defend. The bandwagon came from nowhere. |
Just because a bandwagon came from nowhere doesn't mean it's not right but there isn't anything to go on, which is why I simply voted without a reason, like most others. I've never played a day-start mafia game, and I'm not so great with nuances of who said what and how it can be interpreted, etc., until later in the game.
What I don't understand:
| Sefer wrote: |
| Take it from someone who was in Homer Mafia, speedlynching Amb day 1 does the town no good. |
We're supposed to let people live or die based on how the rest of a game played out after they died in another mafia game? How do you prove that the later game went the way it did because of that person as opposed to the role they played? This is true of everyone, not just Amb. I was mafia in Dilbert and Clue - I should die now?
Or are you saying Amb is a good mafia player no matter what side he's on, so let's let him live? The extension is: if he's mafia, he'll kick everyone's butts but the game will be good.
Just like Amb's comments, nothing I do or say can point anywhere else except to make people think "scum", since that's what we're all looking for, but I don't decide a vote based on who played what roles in other games. You're either pro-town or pro-scum in this game, and that's it. By now we've got to be playing sides somewhat, since we have nothing else to go on except who is voting or not voting for whom. What does transfer from other games in a person's playing style.
Amb, I hope you will then understand why I'm keeping my vote as it is. I've already voted twice. I'm not going to keep flipping because there isn't any damning evidence against, and none for, you, just like the rest of us. If I vote past-half-way to lynch again, I'll be FOSed once more, just for voting. If the mafia wanted Amb dead, they could have piled on the last three votes. They would have looked suspicious the next day, and probably would be investigated and picked off, so maybe they didn't. This still doesn't point to whether Amb is scum or not, as the mafia might have avoided voting for a fellow scum.
So where does that leave us, and what have I said that we didn't already know? Nothing. |
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Sefer
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:32 pm Post subject: 82 |
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| Beartalon wrote: |
What I don't understand:
| Sefer wrote: |
| Take it from someone who was in Homer Mafia, speedlynching Amb day 1 does the town no good. |
We're supposed to let people live or die based on how the rest of a game played out after they died in another mafia game? How do you prove that the later game went the way it did because of that person as opposed to the role they played? This is true of everyone, not just Amb. I was mafia in Dilbert and Clue - I should die now?
Or are you saying Amb is a good mafia player no matter what side he's on, so let's let him live? The extension is: if he's mafia, he'll kick everyone's butts but the game will be good.
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Neither. Perhaps I should have been more clear for those that didn't read the game; Amb being lynched quickly day one contributed directly and heavily to the town's loss because there wasn't enough discussion from day 1 to draw any conclussions from Amb's death; no one revealed any allegiances or the like. The only member of the mafia that died that game was modkilled, and the living town members really didn't have an idea of who the scum in the game were at the end. It's often stated over at mafiascum that long days favor town, and this is true; while I don't necessarily like days to go on quite as long as they do over there sometimes, I do know that lynching Amb on page two would not be to the town's benefit, even if he were scum (we'd learn almost nothing from the death, because the lack of discussion would make it very difficult to figure out who Amb would be working with). Additionially, we never would have lynched Amb so quickly without scum egging the wagon on, and any time I see a wagon build up that fast (particularly for no reason) I have to suspect it's because multiple scum have jumped on.
| Beartalon wrote: |
Just because a bandwagon came from nowhere doesn't mean it's not right but there isn't anything to go on, which is why I simply voted without a reason, like most others. I've never played a day-start mafia game, and I'm not so great with nuances of who said what and how it can be interpreted, etc., until later in the game.
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A bandwagon without reason isn't necessarily wrong, true, but without a reason, you're essentially random voting someone to death. You can play the odds if you want, but in that scum are in the minority in (very nearly) every game, we'd likely be lynching town. Most games do end up lynching town anyway day one, but at least we'll get some information by insisting that people actually state a reason for their vote.
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Heroes Mafia Mega signups in progress: http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=12124 |
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Quailman
His Postmajesty
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 2:41 pm Post subject: 83 |
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| I am never as verbose as some of my counterparts, but I often read more into what others say, and they read more into what I say. When you said "speedlynching amb...", I read "speedlynching someone..." I know you cited a specific instance (Homer maf), but it applies anywhere. We need to keep things going, like you say, to see possible allegiances, even though they may be spurious. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: 84 |
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| Quote: |
Or are you saying Amb is a good mafia player no matter what side he's on, so let's let him live? The extension is: if he's mafia, he'll kick everyone's butts but the game will be good.
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If this is the argument, then I think its the first time i've had it said about me.  I hate it when that argument is used personally though. What you don't want to do is lynch all the active players straight away. THat can kill a game... |
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zorT Kitty
Oboe! Another bassoonist!
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: 85 |
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| I just remembered this game! I'm sorry I've neglected it for the past week. Catching up now... |
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MatthewV
Daedalian Member :_
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:17 pm Post subject: 86 |
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Now, instead of killing Amb at the end of page two (he seemed to believe that was a foolish idea) we should kill him at the start of page three.  |
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Courk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: 87 |
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Vote Count:
Amb - 4 - (Chuck, Livingod, MatthewV, Beartalon)
Beartalon - 3 - (The Great Crep'er, worm, pete d)
Talzor - 3 - (Quailman, Sefer, Fuldu)
Middle Aged Guy - 2 - (Dented Ford, jesus_saves)
Dented Ford - 1 - (Middle Aged Guy)
Fuldu - 1 - (groza528)
jesus_saves - 1 - (referee)
pete d - 1 - (zorT Kitty)
worm - 1 - (Talzor) |
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Middle Aged Guy
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: 88 |
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Unvote: Dented Ford (The Word Zendo on which the judgement to vote for me has now been solved, so I'm assuming the vote against me will be withdrawn soon ... and I'm gracious enough to make the first move!)
In the absence of any other logical suspects, Vote: Beartalon, because:
| Quote: |
| If the mafia wanted Amb dead, they could have piled on the last three votes. |
implies some knowledge of the status of those who had already voted. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: 89 |
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| Despite the fact I dont really agree with the reasoning that much, I am sorely tempted to hit back by joining the Beartalon vote. I'll sleep on it. |
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Beartalon
'Party line' kind of guy
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: 90 |
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If you're going to quote me, Middle Aged Guy, do it in context. The sentences after that were about why they may have not, with the entire thing theoretical.
Just because I said what experienced mafia players may be thinking doesn't make me scum.
The real question is, are you willing to kill me just to find that I'm not? That's the same logic people are already complaining about over the many votes on Amb. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: 91 |
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| Can someone roll me a 2 sided dice please... (I havent the time to figure the tags out for now) |
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Sefer
Daedalian Member
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: 93 |
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| Vote beartalon |
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Fuldu
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: 94 |
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Awesome, Amb. Random dice votes off the entire player list provides a de facto explanation of what each outcome will stand for. What you just did is akin to flipping a coin, announcing "heads," and then saying "heads stands for vote beartalon, so that's what I'm going to do." And it isn't a behavior that looks good. If you want to say "1 is Beartalon; 2 is (I'm guessing) Talzor" beforehand, and then roll a dice tag, more power to you. This, somewhat less so.
_________________
"... through a combination of anagrams, wordplay, and trafficking in the occult." |
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Beartalon
'Party line' kind of guy
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: 95 |
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| Amb wrote: |
THe third vote is known to be scummy. THe fifth definitely is because it pushed the bandwagon to the halfway mark and thats where it potentially could become dangerous to me. Its the speed at which it gathered leeches that should concern us all. |
My, my my. The vote count is at 5 for me. Thank you, Amb. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: 96 |
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Beattalon was listed at one.
Talzor was list at two.
1 was rolled. I voted Beartalon.
Do I care whether people think I falsely justified my actions? No not really. Do I care if its Bear Talon or Talzor? No. If someone votes Talzor, then I will change to Talzor to make sure another bandwagon takes priority.
I was under near lynch conditions. I dont care about appearing scummy at this stage.
I figure this: I know I am not scum. I figure I am 1/19th of the game and am town. Thus if I try to lynch someone other than me, then I stand a better chance of hitting scum than the town does with a 0% chance with lynching me. The problem with this is that no-one else knows this; But I know this, and thus I will take the risk. If you have a problem with that, then by all means vote me. But expect fingers pointing back at you. And you can expect that I will live up to my title... I will not be lynched today. I will make sure that does not happen. |
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Beartalon
'Party line' kind of guy
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: 97 |
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Since I don't care if I appear scummy at this point either, I can live with that explanation.
Unvote: Amb |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:25 am Post subject: 98 |
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| Unvote; Vote Talzor |
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Livingod
Never Dead
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:51 am Post subject: 99 |
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I am coughing up blood at the sheer sight of Amb's scumness..
_________________
ScumTube!
Endless Mafia. Replacements constantly needed. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: 100 |
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| Blood is associated with scum... I told you all Livingod would confess sooner or later. |
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Livingod
Never Dead
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: 101 |
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Hahaa, and when have you played in a game with me as scum? Besides, YOU made me cough up blood.
_________________
ScumTube!
Endless Mafia. Replacements constantly needed. |
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Sefer
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: 102 |
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I dunno about play, but he did RUN a game when you were scum, LG. He may have picked something up  Not that he wasn't obviously joking, I just wanted to point out that he's seen you as scum.
_________________
Heroes Mafia Mega signups in progress: http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=12124 |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: 103 |
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Hahaa, and when have you played in a game with me as scum? Besides, YOU made me cough up blood.
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I recall you being GF and lynched day 1 in a game that I am still alive in...
I also modded you. That counts a lot for learning tells... |
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Livingod
Never Dead
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:10 am Post subject: 104 |
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Modding gives you additional information which unconsciously affect what you look for in my tells. Besides, I only give myself away when I'm the GF. But I can't be the GF because then we'd be scumbuddies, which we are not.
_________________
ScumTube!
Endless Mafia. Replacements constantly needed. |
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Beartalon
'Party line' kind of guy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: 105 |
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| That syllogism doesn't work... |
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Livingod
Never Dead
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:35 am Post subject: 106 |
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Amb is scum. (Assume) I am his GF. We are scumbuddies. My Role PM should say that we are scumbuddies. My Role PM does not mention Amb. Thus, our assumption is incorrect.
The Amb I know is never this reckless; he can't count votes, can't use dice tags, calls the fifth vote scummy and proceeds to place a fifth vote. This is not Ambtown, this is definetely Ambscum on our hands.
_________________
ScumTube!
Endless Mafia. Replacements constantly needed. |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:50 am Post subject: 107 |
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1. he can't count votes, <-- WHo said I was perfect. Where did I count wrong anyways
2. can't use dice tags, <-- I have never managed to successfully use the damned dice tags. |
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Beartalon
'Party line' kind of guy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:24 am Post subject: 108 |
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The voting is divided between three people with 4 or 5 votes each, and others of 2 or 1 vote. Not enough to make anyone really have to claim, and obviously not enough to complete a bandwagon to lynch.
Some of us are very quiet.
Are we really getting anywhere?
LivingGod, I read that differently.
Amb is scum.
I only give myself away when I am the Godfather
What if you are not the Godfather?
You won't give yourself away.
So, if Amb was scum or not, it is still entirely possible for you to be scum but not the GodFather.
Whee, we're all claiming town. Are we surprised? No. What does all you people who are the sole voter on someone think? Do you usually vote one person and stick with it? |
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worm
unregistered
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: 109 |
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| Livingod wrote: |
| Amb is scum. (Assume) I am his GF. We are scumbuddies. My Role PM should say that we are scumbuddies. My Role PM does not mention Amb. Thus, our assumption is incorrect. |
if not amb, who DOES your role PM mention? (perhaps i should say whom). mine strangely doesn't mention anything or anyone but my role.
i know, assuming you are scum, you'd just feed us names other than your scumbuddies, so nevermind.
for reminding me of what syllogism means and because, if it's an act, i'm starting to believe it, unvote: beartalon
as my first mafia game, i now realize how this thing can make you think irrationally...i almost trust mattv b/c he seems too scummy and i start to doubt quailman b/c his vote is so rational (like he's too clean).
i have lurked a bit. mainly b/c my head is spinning with possibilities and i'm looking for something to tilt my vote. there are a few (jesus_saves and dented ford come to mind) who haven't been around since their first, "random" vote. i would really like to hear from them. |
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Courk
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:27 am Post subject: 110 |
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Vote Count:
Talzor - 4 - (Quailman, Sefer, Fuldu, Amb)
Amb - 3 - (Chuck, Livingod, MatthewV)
Beartalon - 3 - (The Great Crep'er, pete d, Middle Aged Guy)
Middle Aged Guy - 2 - (Dented Ford, jesus_saves)
Fuldu - 1 - (groza528)
jesus_saves - 1 - (referee)
pete d - 1 - (zorT Kitty)
worm - 1 - (Talzor)
This weekend I will look at participation and poke as needed. |
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Chuck
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: 111 |
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| I participated in the voting. I didn't know we were supposed to participate in the bickering too. |
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Sefer
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:30 am Post subject: 112 |
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The bickering is half the fun!
(On a more serious note, conversation is a big part of figuring out different people's alignments, so if you want us to trust you, you need to bicker too).
_________________
Heroes Mafia Mega signups in progress: http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=12124 |
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Livingod
Never Dead
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:10 pm Post subject: 113 |
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Check the restricted access thread for my last post.
_________________
ScumTube!
Endless Mafia. Replacements constantly needed. |
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jesus_saves
Almost Right
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: 114 |
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| Livingod wrote: |
| Amb is scum. (Assume) I am his GF. |
Definitely read this as GF= girlfriend. *is amused*
Otherwise (gamewise): I am torn between Livingod and Talzor as potential scum. Livingod, because of his random assumptions for Amb's scumminess, and for:
| Livingod wrote: |
| When I grow up, I wanna be a killing machine! ^_^ |
Talzor for:
| Talzor wrote: |
Unvote Livingod. I've never really liked the day 1 random vote tradition. It seems a little pointless.
Of cource without it I probably wouldn't do a vote Amb right now. |
I m not of Amb's state of mind that this, as he did claim, just an attempt to stir up trouble.
unvote
FoS: Livingod, Talzor
[aside] it is so STINKIN' weird to play mafia online. I much prefer real life versions. [/aside] |
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jesus_saves
Almost Right
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:27 pm Post subject: 115 |
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| Amb wrote: |
| Do I care whether people think I falsely justified my actions? No not really. Do I care if its Bear Talon or Talzor? No. If someone votes Talzor, then I will change to Talzor to make sure another bandwagon takes priority. |
this however also makes me wary of Amb. FoS: Amb |
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Talzor
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:34 pm Post subject: 116 |
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I've been trying to make sense of the Amb's related posts for a couple of days and failed miserably.
1. You vote bear on a (at best) suspicious die roll.
| Quote: |
| I was under near lynch conditions. I don't care about appearing scummy at this stage. |
2. You proceed to say that you don't care what people think of you, because you were near lynch, which, while numerical true, is definitely not the case.
3. Bear actually unvotes you for this post?!?
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Yeah, it was a rather feeble attempt to try to stir up some discussion |
Gut feeling, Talzor is telling the truth here. I cant explain why I think that, I just do... |
4. You vote me? Despite believing I only voted you to promote some discussion.
I don't know whether to:
1. keep my vote on worm for not post some sort of reply to 64. His unvote of bear isn't exactly stellar either. I not for the fact that it's never that obvious I'd think that he, bear and amb were scum together.
2. Vote Fuldu for not unvoting me or posing a comeback to 76. When you accuse somebody and they post a defence, you either try to unvote them or refute the defence, at the very least just say that you just don't buy it.
3. Vote Amb. For the above stated reasons. |
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Beartalon
'Party line' kind of guy
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: 117 |
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Talzor: No, I did not unvote him for that line. He is convincing me that he's also town and we're just spinning our wheels against each other.
The convincing point right now was mostly the last line:
| Amb wrote: |
| I will not be lynched today. I will make sure that does not happen. |
Assume this refers to a one-shot lynch-avoidance ability. What's the point to waste a day lynching him when it's possible that he has a chance that he won't have to die? If Amb is town, he's used it and could get picked off later. If he's mafia then he's used it and can be picked off later. If Amb is lying, is it worth proving it?[/b] |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: 118 |
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| It might be worth proving it to stop the game stalling :-/ |
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zorT Kitty
Oboe! Another bassoonist!
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:33 pm Post subject: 119 |
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| I'm at a complete loss here. I don't know what to do or who to vote for. Amb, Beartalon, Talzor, and Livingod have all made ridiculously scummy posts, but are probably not ALL scum. I just don't know who seems the worst... |
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Amb
Amb the Hitched.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:58 am Post subject: 120 |
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| (Just bear in mind, that all of my 'scummy' posts came after I was being strung up for no reason at all) |
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