French mafia - Almost victorious Town wrongfully lynches SK

[Antrax]

[Leonidas]

Pooky, the town had adequate resources to win this...

As to your role, it was designed to last - and to have the opportunity for the double investigation.

Just look at the balanced endgame: 3/2, but with a cop fingering a mafia member, and a potential investigation on the GF as an upside.

The town was extremely, extremely close from victory... had they not COMPLETELY botched it. Which again leads me to think that the balance was, well, ok.

[Pooky]

they did not completely botch it.

One player completely botched it.

My point is that it should not have been that close.

Frankly speaking, up until that point, the town had a 66% lynch correct percentage.

When you lynch correctly 66% of the time, you don't expect be in Lynch or Lose.

And also, putting a one shot nightkill immunity into a cop is not the same as designing it to be able to have investigations on all players living AND the possibility of doubly investigating a player.

It's simply not the case based on how fast players die and how quickly we move into an endgame.
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3-1 against Mith in Fantasy Football.

[Leonidas]

[Samadhi]

[Talitha]

Comiserations town. Thanks for a great game Leo.

Apologies to jesternl for taking him out of play

I am of the school of thought that if you have a vig ability, you should probably use it, especially in a larger game like this. Heh - so we're lucky I only killed ONE innocent. I was was tossing up between Jesternl & Taf Night 1, for the record. I would've vig'd more, but the first night was the only night I had the time to read over and make an informed choice. I hate when RL impacts on my mafia !

[Leonidas]

[Macros]

I dont think the game was horribly unbalanced, I don't think I played particularly well, I do think however Pooky played horribly. His arguements for lynching me were badly presented. A decent case could have easily pushed MNOwax onto me, cephrir was clearly considering it.
Taf would have tried to nail Pooky I'm fairly certain, leaving 3-1 in the town.
Massclaim time.
Yes it was a 5 man mafia but the town (as a group) made some terrible foul ups and I'd like to think over the course of 6/7 days me and Taf made enough mistakes to be obviously i Cahoots.
I know the two of us were pushing for a Talitha lynch at one stage, practically walking hand in hand.

Tanks to leo for a fun game, commiserations and some suger for all those grapes gone sour out there.
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oh hello

[Leonidas]

Informed choices are made based on information which is the result of how the game is played. If the vig chooses a townie, it's a failure of the town.

[Samadhi]

[Pooky]

I don't need to play my position more aggressively because I have an ability that pretty much shows my innocence.

I purposefully played it passively give the oppurtunity for a counterclaim to any scum out there.

In fact me passively playing it to draw out Tafli's vote gave me an excellent clue as to who to pursue next.

Mnowax's choice is absolutely mindboggling considering the information in the thread.

There is no way I could've expected him to make the choice of lynching me in that spot when my ability basically says I'm an innocent.(I mean can you think of a single reason why a SCUM French player could be able to get General Pierre Cambrone to post something like that in the game thread? Because you certainly would have to believe something like that to lynch me.)

The loss is solely on Mnowax's shoulders, Cephrir's inactivity has nothing to do with the fact that he logged on, saw evidence that might as well have been a giant neon sign that says Pooky is innocent, and then decided to vote for me anyway.

But frankly speaking, one player should not be able to lose it for the town after the town has lynched correctly 66% of the time.

It's just inconceivable that such a game would be balanced.
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3-1 against Mith in Fantasy Football.

[Leonidas]

Listening to Samadhi, I would not want to start a mafia game with day (to prevent the evil lynching of an innocent townie), and I would not start it at night either (to prevent the unfair assassination of multiple innocent townies), so basically, I would probably switch to hosting poker games - real time hopefully.

[Pooky]

My argument for lynching you was:

I investigated everyone other than Macros, they all came up innocent, let's lynch Macros.

There's no other way to present that information.
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3-1 against Mith in Fantasy Football.

[Talitha]

I tried to be scummy enough to not get night killed, but from what I understand the SK killed me thinking I was scum.

[Talitha]

*huggles Pooky*

[Pooky]

*huggles tally*
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3-1 against Mith in Fantasy Football.

[Leonidas]

OMGUS...

[Samadhi]

Leo: I really did enjoy this game, but trust me, the game was not balanced well.

Just like some other people, I mean this as constructive criticism, not as an insult. Some of what I've said may have come across harshly and I apologize, I don't always speak diplomatically. But I hope you'll listen to what I have to say since I know how to get the stats, I know mafia theory (not as well as say..mith or antrax, but I'm no slouch), and I've run some well balanced very successful games.

Again and finally, I'd like to commend you on your imagination, research, creative writing and overall mod skills. Very well done IMO. That's all I have to say unless you want to discuss it more.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pooky]

Actually Leo, what Samadhi is saying is that the town generally starts at a disadvantage due to the lack of information in the beginning of the game(relatively) and thus the size of the scum group needs to be smaller to compensate for the lack of information in the beginning of the mafia game.

5:fifteen is a really hard mountain to climb because by the time the town gets any sort of information(usually one or two days), they are already so close to lynch-or-lose that they have no room for error.

That shouldn't be the case in a well balanced game.
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3-1 against Mith in Fantasy Football.

[Leonidas]

[Leonidas]

[Leonidas]

[Samadhi]

Read my games, then get back to me. I think you'll find that I have every right to be proud of the games I've run.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pooky]

...

I'm talking about a hypothetic game with 5-1-14 as the distrib..


If town lynches wrong twice and mafia/sk do not crosskill on the subsequent nights(not that unlikely), you are left with 5-1-8.

Which is basically right on the edge of lynch-or-lose.

Yes it was Day 7 when we went into lynch-or-lose, but if you consider the fact that the town had not lynched incorrectly since day TWO. I would argue that Day 2 was basically the edge of lynch or lose.

If you think about it, the only way we could've lynched better since day 2 was to either kill Amb earlier than we did(which wasn't that late to begin with) or keep him alive and pray he shoots some more scum.

A town shouldn't have to lynch scum in a correct order or keep scum alive to hope for a crosskill in order to maneuver itself out of a lynch-or-lose position right after day2.
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3-1 against Mith in Fantasy Football.

[Macros]

pooky, the generals post in my eyes looked like a churlish stunt. the post came 4 minutes after yours, I would have voted for you were I in MNOwax's place. Plus your ridiculous pissing contest with Ant earlier in the game set you at a considerable disadvantage when suddenly trying to push major pro-town play. I'm sorry I know I'm far from the master of mafia, hell I'm a pretty bad player on the whole but your gameplay was bad, end of. Had you played it anyway convincingly for the town (with your night protection it would have been a good idea) MNOwax would have sided with you. My defense was that I didn't think Napoleon wouldn't be in the game.
the most famous frenchman ever wouldn't be in the game, if you can't beat that arguement then I don't know.
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oh hello

[Dragon Phoenix]

[Leonidas]

[Macros]

put me on that list as well
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oh hello

[Samadhi]

[Leonidas]

Things are going well for your game, Samadhi, you already have two players on the list.

[Samadhi]

Leo: Stupid text. I totally got a different meaning out of that. Fair enough. I've had one in the works for a while, but I have no idea when I'd have the time to run it.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Leonidas]

[Macros]

I would change it too, town does reasonalbly well unitl the end then throws it away
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oh hello

[Samadhi]

My further edit makes it more clear.
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And he lived happily ever after. Except for the dieing at the end and the heartbreak in between.

[Pooky]

I do apologize for sounding so negative Leo, I certainly did enjoy the scenes written up.

If the GL had some kind of award for best scenewriter, you'd win that hands down.

I will offer up one last reason why this setup was imbalanced, because I really do want you to understand why I believe this is so.

The town lynched correctly on days 3-6.

The only way the town could win on day 7 was to lynch scum, and then lynch another scum on day 8.

In other words, the town had to lynch correctly 6 times in a row starting on Day 3 in order to win if the scum did not crosskill, and this was after a scum was nightkilled already by an SK.

It's just unreasonable for the town to be put into that sort of position on day 3 in such a large game.

Thanks for the game.
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3-1 against Mith in Fantasy Football.

[Leonidas]

You make valid points.

(But you still could have - and perhaps even should have - won the game).

[Leonidas]

In the light of the new elements submitted by the players (especially the townies), I feel the need for a new change of the title.

[The Great Crep'er]

That's just what you players are today, criticize the mod like there's no tomorrow.

Don't listen to 'em Leo, you may have made a few errors here and there but overall it was a well played game.

Seems like there's hardly any mafia games still going on nowadays, 'cept Heroes Mafia, seeing as how my beloved Christmas Mafia is almost coming to an end.
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Potato. Belgium. Eight. Random Lynch # Mafia awaits.

[Macros]

lol @ the new title.
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oh hello

[Leonidas]