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| Favorite Band |
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35% |
[ 5 ] |
| Greatest Human |
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64% |
[ 9 ] |
| Other (indicate in a reply) |
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[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos
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 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: 41 |
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Im talking in general here as I dont do too much outside of mafia ang Vis games and it seems to already have been decided. I love a good debate anyway its just seems when I go at it for fun others take it way to personnaly but it seems I may have found a place to do just that.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning |
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Coyote*
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: 42 |
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Is this one of those 'definition of terms' things? I enjoy those.
Arguments in favor of one's position = Going at it for fun.
Arguments against one's position = Taking it way too personally.
(Nothing personal, UM. Just having a bit of fun.)  |
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Scurra
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: 43 |
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No, it's one of those irregular verbs:
I am engaged in constructive debate
You are arguing
He/she is a troll
_________________
still Quiz Olympiad champion. Must get a life.
New definitions: COFFEE - someone who is coughed upon
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Coyote*
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:14 pm Post subject: 44 |
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And let's not forget:
I am tenacious
You are obstinate
He/She is mule-headed. |
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casinopete
Emergency Backup Antrax
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: 45 |
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| Coyote wrote: |
| How 'bout we just go with 'Greatest Human' with no qualifiers whatsoever? |
I understand the sentiment, but I am torn. Mightn't it be a better matchup (and thus a better tournament) if a Jesus v. Gutenberg matchup was decided on grounds other than the metaphysical?
I know you've already answered this with your opinion - I'm not ignoring it - but I think it's worth pressing because religious figures create a strange sort of category break. To a Christian, Jesus' sacrifice paying for the sins of the world, enabling salvation, is incomparable to anything anyone else has done. Christians judge Jesus the 'Greatest Human' for reasons inaccessable to the other voters. Don't you think that could be just as damaging to the contest as qualifiers?
An unqualified tournament with religious figures is certainly better than one which bans them, but I think a qualified one might be better still.
_________________
If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you.
If you have no ice cream, I will take it away from you. |
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MTGAP
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:05 am Post subject: 46 |
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| Amb wrote: |
| Just wait for the name 'Jesus' to appear. |
I don't vote for people whose existence is questionable.
_________________
This statement is false. |
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groza528
No Place Like Home
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:26 am Post subject: 47 |
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| casinopete wrote: |
| An unqualified tournament with religious figures is certainly better than one which bans them, but I think a qualified one might be better still. |
Assuming this is the qualification you're looking at, I disagree:
| Zag wrote: |
| How about the greatest non-deity human? Therefore, all people who consider Jesus to be a deity are prohibited from voting for him. (On the other hand, I might vote for him.) |
Now don't get me wrong, I don't mean any disrespect to Zag, at face-value it seems like a perfectly reasonable suggestion to a sticky situation. But as a Christian, I would prefer to be told that Jesus is ineligible as a candidate than that I am ineligible as a voter.
If we say that only those who believe Jesus is not divine may vote for Him, we're essentially limiting the voting pool to people who are more inclined to believe that Jesus is fictitious or heavily exaggerated. Certainly casinopete is correct that Christians simply cannot vote *against* Jesus, but I think preventing them from voting for Jesus would simply bias the results the other way. It's like saying "Only registered republicans may vote for Barack Obama."
If you have another qualification to suggest I'm happy to listen, but I do want to say that as a Christian I would not be offended if Jesus were disqualified. |
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Antrax
ESL Student
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: 48 |
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Again, why must all Christians always vote for Jesus over everything else, and how is it different from having a clear favourite in any other category?
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
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groza528
No Place Like Home
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: 49 |
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| Antrax wrote: |
| Again, why must all Christians always vote for Jesus over everything else, |
Because a good Christian strives every day to be more like Christ. Our very definition of greatness is to be like Him.
| Quote: |
| and how is it different from having a clear favourite in any other category? |
Well, for one thing, it has started wars. But another major difference to strong opinions is that it's exceedingly prevalent. If one in a hundred people believe that Citizen Kane is the best movie ever created, that's a significant number. But one in *three* people are Christians (source). If we were to have a poll of the people we nominated to be the 16 greatest people of all time, and 1/3 of the voters opted for Jesus, I don't care how great any of the other 15 are-- none of them are going to get *half* of the remaining votes.
Of course, a series of one on one matches is different than a 16-contestant free-for-all. But I still say the prevalence makes this different than having a favorite novel or band. |
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Antrax
ESL Student
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: 50 |
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Is one third of the GL's population Christian, as well?
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
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groza528
No Place Like Home
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: 51 |
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Probably not, but I'd wager we're more than one in sixteen
Edit: FWIW, I count five including myself in the top 20 posters and there may be more I don't know about. I wanted to count from the top 50+ but then I realized I really don't know the next 30 nearly as well as the top 20. |
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Chuck
Daedalian Member
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: 52 |
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| In the next poll when we do greatest mythological characters, Jesus might win that too. It hardly seems fair. |
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Antrax
ESL Student
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: 53 |
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I dunno. If to be a little less sniping, I would be surprised if a large enough group of GL members who participate in the tournament will feel strongly and seriously enough about the tournament to "force" them to vote Jesus every time. However, this is purely gut.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: 54 |
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Its not that we are forced. This is something we believe in. We choose to believe that Jesus was the greatest human because he was without sin. He didnt do anything wrong. He also, to us, is God. that kinda warrants our vote. Our beliefs handicap a decent size (maybe not 1/3) of the Labyrinth so it would be easier I think if he was disqualified. But its not up to me if hes in Ill vote for him.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning |
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Antrax
ESL Student
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| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: 55 |
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I choose to believe Twin Peaks is the height of televised creation due to its unforgettable camera work, impeccable script and complex characters. Are we going to run around the same point in circles for much longer?
Either you vote for Jesus because you think he's great, and then it's no different from any other favourite. Or, you vote for him because somehow religiously you must, and then I think you're in a minority that shouldn't skew things.
_________________
After years of disappointment with get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme. And quick! |
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casinopete
Emergency Backup Antrax
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: 56 |
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| groza528 wrote: |
Assuming this is the qualification you're looking at, I disagree:
| Zag wrote: |
| How about the greatest non-deity human? Therefore, all people who consider Jesus to be a deity are prohibited from voting for him. (On the other hand, I might vote for him.) |
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Mostly no. I definitely wouldn't support a prohibition on voters. But the word/phrase "non-deity" does point at what I mean. I was thinking of a request that no one vote on metaphysical grounds. I would hope that people would try to evaluate matchups as objectively as possible* instead of instavoting their prophet or saviour.
*hahahahahahaha
| Antrax wrote: |
| Again, why must all Christians always vote for Jesus over everything else, and how is it different from having a clear favourite in any other category? |
| casinopete wrote: |
| ... religious figures create a strange sort of category break. To a Christian, Jesus' sacrifice paying for the sins of the world, enabling salvation, is incomparable to anything anyone else has done. |
| Antrax wrote: |
| due to its unforgettable camera work, impeccable script and complex characters |
The quality of the camera work, script, and characters can be weighed against that of other shows. Jesus' payment for the sins of the world can't be weighed against other payments for the sins of the world.
| Undercover Monk wrote: |
| We choose to believe that Jesus was the greatest human because he was without sin. He didnt do anything wrong. |
Uhm. No. Being without sin makes you a pretty great guy in the small, personal sense, but it doesn't make you the greatest human to ever live.
| Undercover Monk wrote: |
| He also, to us, is God. that kinda warrants our vote. |
Uhm. No. Focus on godhood would be a clear reason to vote against him as greatest human.
I think the portion of Jesus' life you are looking for is that his sacrifice paid for the sins of the world, enabling man's reunion with God, an act of service that cannot be rivaled because salvation is definitionally more important than anything that can happen on Earth. Toss in the fact that "greatness" is actually explicitly defined by servanthood for Christians, and that pretty tidily wraps up why they couldn't consider anyone but Jesus as the greatest... unless we politely asked them to ignore the metaphysical, which dodges the use of Paid-for-the-Sins-of-the-World as a criterion.
_________________
If you have some ice cream, I will give it to you.
If you have no ice cream, I will take it away from you. |
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Undercover Monk
Professor Chaos
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| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: 57 |
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No his God-hood is what makes him special he was god and man all at once hence using "Son of Man" and "Son of God" interchangeblely (I dont think I spelled that right.) Though if I did put aside my beliefs I would still vote him because I feel his "historical" influence far exceeds any other name on that list.
_________________
The Classic Blunders:
1. never get involved in a land war in Asia
2.Never go in against a Sicilian when DEATH is on the line
3. Never release Peyton Manning |
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